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Geek Culture / Homemade games need a rating?

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Super Nova
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 08:26
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Im currently making a game that has alot of blood and violence and was wondering if I am allowed to even sell it.

1.) Now, Im not looking to give my game a rating, but does it have to have one if its really gruesome?

2.) What if a child gets ahold of my game, I am responsible for a rating?

3.) Would TGC care if I release a game using their products that is really gruesome?

These questions may seem obvious to some, but Im really not sure. Feel free to elaborate if Im missing something.

"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion."
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 08:48
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I'd definitely attach a warning. If you are selling your game you can't use the standard rating system like 'M' and 'E', but if you are giving it away then nobody will care. Either way I'd point out what type of content it contains. You'll turn some away and attract others.


Come see the WIP!
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dagger24
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 08:52 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 08:53
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Quote: "These questions may seem obvious to some, but Im really not sure. Feel free to elaborate if Im missing something."


Sure, I'd be happy to elaborate on what you're missing. First of all, you need to add apostrophes to your "Im"s... I mean, sure it may not seem like a big deal, but y'know, when I see that people go that extra keystroke to add in that extra apostrophe, my self-esteem increases by five points. So build my dignity and add those "'"s....

Well good luck with your game. Great job on making one too, meaning, most people here don't have the dedication to finish game projects. Myself included.

Have a nice day.
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Super Nova
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 09:41
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@Cash Curtis II
I will definitly be adding warnings, it is not my intent to hide the fact my game is gruesome nor would I even attempt to do such a thing. I just needed to know if there are legal issues involved with releasing a violent game. Thanks for the info.

Thinking on this subject a bit more, I have another question.

4.) Could I post a WIP of my game? (The AUP says nothing "horrific" but that word is a bit vague).

@dagger24
Sorry for not using the 's in my I'ms but my keyboard is strange and hitting that key is uncomfortable while typing fast (for your self-esteem I'll try and remember ). My game is far from complete but a demo is in the works, just need to know if I will be able to share it with this community.

"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion."
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Raven
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 09:46
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Quote: "1.) Now, Im not looking to give my game a rating, but does it have to have one if its really gruesome? "


Technically speaking, there is no law saying that any video game (or any form of software) requires rating of any form.
The only reason that games you purchase in the shops have them started because the industry was trying to do the responsible thing; then lawsuits began and now everyone does it to simply cover their ass legally.

Quote: "2.) What if a child gets ahold of my game, I am responsible for a rating?"

Provided there is some sort of warning (remember the old Resident Evil games saying "WARNING: CONTAINS SCENES OF A GRAPHIC NATURE" or such) then technically speaking, then no. Failing this you can actually age gate your website.

It might seem like something silly and simply, but you can then simply respond "The website denies access to anyone who is younger than [given age], anyone who chooses to circumvent that by lying I cannot be responsible for them gaining access to this title."

Quote: "3.) Would TGC care if I release a game using their products that is really gruesome?"


Why, unless you're plastering their name all over it because they're sponsoring you; then what you do with their product won't affect them in any way. Unless obviously for legally dubious means, like say hacking the pentagon (not likely but best i can think of off the top of my head )

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Super Nova
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 10:38
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Thanks Raven, thats all I needed to know about legalities, what about question 4? (check post 4)

Quote: "Why, unless you're plastering their name all over it because they're sponsoring you; then what you do with their product won't affect them in any way."

Just making sure all the bases are covered.

Oh and the Resident Evil warning was "Warning: this game contains scenes of explicit viloence and gore"... my games gonna need one of those.

"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion."
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BatVink
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 12:31
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Lee wrote na article in one of the newsletters (about 10 - 12 months ago I think) about ratings. The upshot was that you don't need to rate your product, but doing so opens up many more doors for you.

Without an official rating, you won't be able to get a publishing deal. Without a publisher you lose a massive portion of your potential market. For example most high street stores only deal with publishers.

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Raven
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 14:49
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Quote: "4.) Could I post a WIP of my game? (The AUP says nothing "horrific" but that word is a bit vague)."


Provided you don't show anything like say, decapitation or scenes of a sexual nature (I'm looking at you Mr. Indel ) then you should be alright. A warning would honestly attract more of the lil boys & girls you want to avoid the thread.

On that point actually, recently started a community group who are dedicated to creating a list of gamers who are under-age for titles on Xbox Live. There's about 40 of us right now; the plan is each month to send the list to the Xbox Live team in an effort to put an end to constantly seeing teenagers playing titles like Gears of War and Halo 3. It's not like some sorta Jack Tompson fan club or such, where we don't believe these people should play games of this nature (I don't give a crap about bad parenting) ... but I'm sure if you've ever played on Live, PSN or Steam and encountered this lil buggers, it just ruins the online experience.

I personally think we should have something for it under "file complaint" because it is getting stupid. The other day I was playing Halo 3 with a friend playing Social Slayer; and everyone else we got added with were kids. The other team wouldn't quite poorly singing and when I told them to "shut the hell up" they started asking if I wanted "Tea and Crumpets". Our team had two 13yo girls who wouldn't stop screaming at the top of their lungs, and when we were sat there wondering if they were even old enough to play the game, they then told us they were 13 before asking us our ages... well straight off Jeff said "how the hell did you buy this game, you're barely old enough to wipe your own ass"... after a bit more of that sorta stuff they turned around and told us, that we were child molestors and their dads knew where we lived and were going to bomb us.

: sighs : well needless to say they ended up muted, but still; we should only have the mute for retarded adults... not 13yos that are playing a game rated-M (which is 17+)

Still it's that kinda stuff that just shouldn't have to put up with. Honestly I think there should be some news report explaining to parents just how the hell to set the parental controls on their kids consoles.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 16:57
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Raven, I would have taken a different approach, I would have taunted them with a sociopathic attitude with 'I kill Children' playing in the background, followed by the darkest, heaviest piece of pagan metal I can find...but that's just me..

As for ratings, if you're not official you don't need to worry about ratings, you're just an indie game maker putting his stuff on the net, though warnings are great (like pron sites ask if you're 18 and sites with violence warn you first...or at least tend to)- as said, just make sure your content isn't illegal (illegal pron or if your country has laws restricting violent content...game makers, I remember reading in this country aren't allow to make games that involves or allows for the player to engage in child cruelty/violence) No doubt kids will play it (if they like it), when I went to school I'd go up to the ICT room to do work and loads of kids were playing quite bloody games involving cruelty to kittens or other things, kids like playing games they shouln't.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Super Nova
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 04:33
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Thanks for the information everyone, expect to see a WIP in the near future.

"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion."
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Vorg1
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 06:24
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How bad can it actually be. Almost every game today has some sort of blood and gore, even some T rated games. I mean unless you are making ManHunt 3 or Soldier of Fortune 4 it is not that big of a deal. Even then most people could careless unless it is getting into the hands of there 7 year old kids or whatever. But otherwise it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.
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Inspire
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 09:24
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I say if it's something that you wouldn't see even in an R-rated movie, I would be worried.
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sprite
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 14:16
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It depends on how explicit your game is. If it would make manhunt look like a kiddies show then get it rated.

Look at where you’re selling your game. Fallout 3 is banned in Land of Oz because of its drug use. Different countries different rules.

UK has the BBFC http://www.bbfc.co.uk/general/index.php

I'll add something later on.
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Super Nova
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Posted: 20th Jul 2008 05:37
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Its definitely not worse than anything you would see in a movie. Personally I think movies go alot farther than any game out there, I can't even stomach some of the scenes in Hostel.

I would put it on par with manhunt, it definately doesn't go beyond that and there is no nudity/drug use with only mild language. Plus, graphically my game cannot compare to that of a movie or the manhunt games so that in itself (IMO) decreases is explicitness.

My game will feature scenes of violence just like in manhunt, and there will be decapitation. I will post short vids that I think are acceptable when I have them which I already have some animations completed, but all I can say is it will remind you of manhunt. If you think manhunt is too much, than my game will be too much.

"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion."
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Cian Rice
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Posted: 20th Jul 2008 05:58
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Quote: "scenes of a sexual nature (I'm looking at you Mr. Indel )"


Off topic but... such wasted talent. If you ask me.

Anyways As long as you don't post up any screens that are extremely violent and only link to them with a valid warning I think it would be okay to post a thread.

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Raven
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 07:35
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Quote: "Off topic but... such wasted talent. If you ask me."


True, but he's still young. Just give him time really, I'm sure you'll see something with more depth to it.

Quote: "I would put it on par with manhunt, it definately doesn't go beyond that and there is no nudity/drug use with only mild language. Plus, graphically my game cannot compare to that of a movie or the manhunt games so that in itself (IMO) decreases is explicitness."


Manhunt (atleast here) was fairly tame compared to Soldier of Fortune imo; the only reason it got such a following was cause it was basically re-inacting the path of a Serial Killer while giving you tips on how to use household objects in better ways to do said killing. Still sod going in to that can of worms.

Violence isn't a bad thing really, you just have to be careful about how you show it to the users. You can always add in a special camera filter like they did with Manhunt 2 where tbh you can't see a damn thing... or just have a more of a cartoon nature where you just see shadows of what is going on (which aparently is acceptable even in daytime television).

To be perfectly honest, while I'm not bothered by any form of violent acts; you don't have to show the actual stuff any have it really annoy anyone without them being weird about having to see stuff like that. Even then I have a feeling those are the type of people who really shouldn't be playing such video games; cause it screams "issues"

That said Condemned was extreme violent, and most of the atmosphere in that wasn't from slicing people apart with melee weapons but actually how the game was put together. It deserved an 18 rating, still I only know a few friends who didn't jump atleast once while playing it (hell even I did a couple of times) cause often you just don't expect somethings to happen. Especially liked the area where you've lost your flashlight and nothing happens during that entire area, but with the little noises and faint shadows you see rush past it starts making you think something will. The suggest of something often can be more powerful than the actual event.

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Super Nova
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 08:04
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I agree completely raven. Violence in games should only be an add-on and while my game may push that a bit (scenes of violence), it still holds true. Anyone playing a video game for the violence alone probably has some issues.

But, who here that has played mortal kombat, not want to see all the fatalities? While watching all the fatalites may seem like something only a "sick" person would do, most people only wanted to see the fatalites out of curiosity, not because they wanted to see a "person" get killed.

I am going to add a "no-gore" mode to my game because the violence alone doesn't make the game fun, if your game sucks, no amount of blood is going to help it and I'm sure there will be some people who don't want to see some of the scenes in my game.

I bought and enjoyed manhunt for the stealth strategy, that was what the game was all about for me. All the extra executions in manhunt were merely more "fatalities" that were there if you wanted to see what they were. And yes, I wanted to see what they were, and you may want to see what they are in my game, but that is merely an extra feature to the game that no one is forced to see.

"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion."
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