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Geek Culture / Mass Effect

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 15:46
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Hey guys, I'm wondering how many have Mass Effect on the PC - I bought a copy the other day, freaking great game, but I notice a few slowdowns, at first I thought it was my computer (despite being within the specifications), but when being in the same place twice one where it's ultra slow and the other where it's completely normal, it seems it couldn't be a misjudgment on specs. I did a search on the internet and found out that this is one of a few bugs in the game - which is annoying because the slowdowns in a couple of places has effected gameplay. Is anybody else here experiencing that problem? or have they found a way around it or is there a stable unofficial patch? (It seems an official patch hasn't been released yet) I couldn't find any answers on Google, but Google doesn't always get you the answers you need.


Cheers.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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video gamer
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 15:54
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If you are having slowdowns, try lowering the resoution or graphics. Not as great, But still friggin awesome

LOL WTF DOES MY AVATAR MEAN!>!>!?!?!??!?!
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lazerus
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 16:53
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completed the other week

and a word of advice talk the crew alot especially the girls,

happy hunting

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 18:37
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I'll try it at absolute minimum settings, but I've found so far, changing the settings doesn't make a difference - the slowdowns really only appear at the Citadel, I've also had a couple on a misssion, which is annoying. According to internet sources these are bugs and given the nature of the slowdowns (it's not that the system can't a handle water shader, 6 charater models, buildings and a few trees at once (with individual normal maps, specular maps etc, it can) it appears the game has a memory leak for my system, looking around on the net it seems I'm not the first person to face the problem, apparently they're releasing a patch to fix their bugs...however I've not found and am hoping there are trick solutions or even a working/stable unofficial patch.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Deathead
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 20:44
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Ok, Mass Effect tends to do that on the 360 version sometimes, its because of the motion blur, as its the only time i get it is when I'm doing a quick turn.


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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 20th Jul 2008 01:30
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I loved Mass Effect for PC - or, rather, I loved the gameplay but loathed whoever organised the bug-testing. It took me over a day to get anything even remotely playable, and then a further 2 days to come up with a solution which allowed me to play for around 30 mins between lockups (which necessitated either quitting and opening the game again, or just rebooting). I think it was a memory leak.

I also got slowdowns, but they didn't seem to be in any specific place. It'd freeze for a second and then jump forward - unless it was coming to the end of its 30 minute tether, in which case it would just freeze. And gloat.

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Jul 2008 01:46
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Hehe, I still get a slowdowns, they're not as bad, but I'm just about to head back to the Citadel on it, which is where the biggest slowdowns reside.

I really. really hope the patch comes out soon, I mean my system is good enough to run it successfully:

Requirement Me
Muli-Core CPU 2.0ghz - Dual core 2.0ghz
2.0gb ram (Vista) - 4gb ram (Vista, 3.0gb availible)
256mb graphics card - 512mb GeForce 9500M GS
Shader 3.0 - Shader 4.0
Latest DirectX 9.0c - Latest DirectX 9.0c and DirectX 10

Vista rates the games at 4.0 minimum, 5.0 recommended - my system rates 4.5 (it's the RAM speed that's 4.5, everything else is rated 4.7 - 5.1)

So I'm supposed to be able to run it smoothly at low resolution and low graphics, the only difference that makes is that it makes it not look as kick-butt. (well there's a faster FPS rate when nothing is interrupting the frame rates, which is the first 5 minutes of game play when you start up) Damn you Bioware.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Jul 2008 21:41
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I've been looking over the Bioware forums, reading through the different posts it seems this kind of problem is quite common and the causes quite random - so there's no universal solution, some people have found solutions that work, none I've tried work. Someone on there has tried all of the founds solutions and still get the problem. Also, it really doesn't matter what detail or resolution I play, the problems are still the same.

I didn't think Mass Effect was this buggy on the PC and I hope the developers release their patch soon and hope it rectifies it, or I find a working solution otherwise I've wasted my money on an awesome game that's barely playable. It's strange, I've never heard of any game, even ones known to be buggy to have these sort of problems.

So if anyone reading this who's thinking of buying Mass Effect for the PC, take my problem and the problem of some others as a warning, you could be lucky and it runs fine and dandy, but it's not always the case.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 25th Jul 2008 10:59
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i get a slow down going into the council chambers, mostly the bit with the trees and water fountain.

Specs:
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Raven
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Posted: 25th Jul 2008 11:12
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Seppuku don't sweat it, you're suffering from a term I like to called "Bioware-newbieness"; Bioware make some freaking amazing storylines, some absolutely beautiful graphics... but unfortunately their programming staff aren't grand at the whole "optmisation" aspect (or bug crushing).

So their games have always suffered from major unexplained lag and the weirdest bugs you'll ever come across. Thing is these issues always end up as minor annoyances given how damn good the actual games are.

If it makes you feel any better, my system has a bit more horsepower and it still has times it struggles running KotoR and Jade Empire. 90% of the time the games will run just fine, but every so often they get horrible lag for no apparent reason.

I think part of it also is Windows Vista's IO system. Good example here is Gears of War (given they both use Unreal 3), because running the time demo of Gears for benchmarking and the whole thing loads entirely then runs. That runs smooth as silk, however in-game itself it suffers from irritating bit of lag.. this only happens when the hard disk is being accessed to.

I know full well the hardware itself can run the game at a nice constant 60fps; and I can play the same section 10 times and only experience lag in it maybe 2-3 times. It's irritating but hopefully at some point this issue will be sorted out with the Unreal 3 Engine itself. I've noticed this problem exponencially deteriorates when running in DirectX10 mode that utilises more streaming (probably why it's so much worse in games like Gears and Mass Effect)

I would say this is entirely the issue with using Vista, but actually XP suffers from it too; I'm sure there is an issue somewhere, might be with DirectX actually or it could be with Windows itself not sure... but something isn't really set-up for data streaming. After all on the PC this is quite a new concept for developers, despite most of the developers who do it are used to consoles where this is their primary method for moving data around.

At some point someone will figure out the cause and fix it, until then we'll all have to put up with these niggles. Still my point is you're by far not alone, as it happens to everyone; anyone who says it doesn't happen to them is full-of-crap trying to blag their system is better or they've never played any modern game.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Jul 2008 14:47 Edited at: 25th Jul 2008 16:19
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Cheers Raven, yeah you could call me a Bioware Newbie, only other Bioware game I've played is Neverwinter Nights, which required a low spec when I bought it anyway. I had a hunch Unreal 3 might have something to do with it, simply because I've heard people have problems on their computers with games made on it, namely Unreal Tournament 3. I guess Bioware should have invested in Cry Engine 2 and hired some people with more experience coding for PCs - Crysis runs beautifully on my system, no slowdowns, no bugs, no problems. (On medium-high of course, given my graphics card and CPU)

I flicked through the Bioware tech support forums a bit more last night and found a couple of 'solutions' said to work, it sounded like it was a bad port from console to PC, for example, I had to edit the INI so that it wouldn't software render shadows and comment out their sound card settings (it sets it up for the Audigy...which I don't have) and have set the game as administrator. I gave it half an hour last night, doing the Liara mission (would have done longer, but it was gone midnight and I had work this morning) and I notice an improvement...at least I assume it's an improvement, little slows downs in the whole mission and I had the settings maxed out (with the shadows turned off, as the little ini tweak turned them off, I'll try it with them on) but I'll try the citadel, if it don't slow down then I guess it's success...if it does, then back to square one.

[Edit] Its runs much better now, though I still get the odd annoying interruption, but at least the game's playable - was lucky that I got that far, I mean it used to keep freezing up on battles, but I've just cut through a whole load of Geth and it performed well. Maximum settings too (no dynamic shadows) No sound issues either.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 25th Jul 2008 16:35
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If the problems with Unreal 3, did people have major problems with BioShock too? It's a while since I played it but all I can remember is that I had to put resolution to either 1024x768 or 800x600 (can't remember which) and put textures to medium and it worked fine with no noticeable slowdown. And it only crashed a few times, and that was when I was using a no-CD patch. Once I went back to the original it was fine.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Jul 2008 16:46
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Bioshock ran beautifully - highest resolution (1366x768 is the highest my laptop will go), maximum graphics. Well there were a few of slowdowns later on in the game when more and more enemies charged at me. I don't know, maybe for Unreal 3 it's DirectX 9 and 10, I ran Bioshock under directX 10 mode, though I did run it under DirectX 9 once and it soon crashed...didn't think much too it at the time...perhaps it was Unreal's fault?

Somebody I talk to on another forum recently bought Unreal Tournament 3, he isn't using Vista, so it was under DirectX 9 and he complained of crashes making it completely unplayable.

Based on this, I'd make the assumption that Unreal Technologies have neglected DirectX 9 a bit.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Raven
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Posted: 25th Jul 2008 17:45
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It could always be the hardware support mind.
As I've had no issues with UT3, Gears, Bioshock or CoD4 on Vista in either DirectX9 or DirectX10.

I found that Gears and UT3 until patched would crash trying to play multiplayer though; which annoyed me a little especially Gears as I had to manually download the GFW - Live updates as the game would crash before it completed downloading and updating.

Although more and more now, I have started getting games that normally I would've bought for Windows (as it's cheaper) spending a little more and getting the 360 versions. Simply because it's guarenteed to work, no issues because of DirectX or the version of Windows you're using, some background application, etc, etc...

It's nice to put in a disc and know in a few seconds you'll be playing rather than getting home with it excited then getting bored waiting up to 35minutes for it to install (no joke, Gears of War took almost 45minutes to install!!)

I find it amusing people are going "yay" over Installs for the PS3 and Xbox 360 because it will "enhance loading times"; but personally I wish to god we had the option on the PC to just run something from disc. I could put up with extra loading times tbh if I didn't have to spend so long installing the damn thing then defragging to enhance performance because the HDD fragments over time due to useage.

I mean the installation argument would be valid if you didn't still have to insert the disc. Only way around that is using a Virtal Drive which means you use up Install Space + Disc Size as the total disc used. In the case of Gears of War that means you are using close to 18GB for that one game. Which is a point they said that they cut the extra content from the 360 version cause of space restrictions... yet for the PC it fits on a 9.2GB disc (installs at just under 9GB)

I don't see how it wouldn't have fit tbh.. not as if it's even that bloody much extra.

Consoles aren't slowly killing PC gaming, the PC's very nature is.
Constant upgrading with no "standard" performance marks for developers meaning you can't simply buy mid-range anymore... instead developers are looking at the PC market as a "test bed" or a bit of additional income with piss-poor ports hoping the additional performance available will make up for it.

The over useage of Unreal 3 also isn't helping as the engine still isn't quite ready for PC primetime imo; especially with epic now focusing almost solely on Consoles despite knowing that PC developers will still use their engine.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Jul 2008 20:20 Edited at: 25th Jul 2008 20:21
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Installation or no installation, doesn't matter - though I'm one who wouldn't put up with the extra loading time on the PC. When installing Mass Effect, which took bloody ages to install I just did something else - I didn't mind waiting, at least it's just 1 inconvenience, longer loading times really aren't a pain if you've got a top of the range computer...(having always been one generation behind, I've had the fun of long loading times) unless of course the developer has optimised themselves properly, like CryTek, Crysis has decent load time, whereas Bioshock, Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect take longer - in fact if Mass Effect has longer loading times on this computer, then its low performance wouldn't be my only complaint.

What I'd prefer is: If I buy a game that my computer fits in the specification required, then I expect it to work desirably, which is my annoyance with Mass Effect, though I've edited the BioEngine.ini file to reduce the unecessary slowdown - repairing a couple of things BioWare missed out in their conversion, at the same time the game still doesn't play desirably, it just means I can still enjoy the game and complete it - the obstacles are now just annoyances...though I play games not to get annoyed, but to relax and not worry about anything.

Patches appear to fix all (Bioshock for me was a 1 time crash, but it was the only time I tested it in DirectX 9 mode, the slow down was due to the number of enemies and they were slight. The other two games, not tried, just heard from other people's experience) but really your game should run properly when you buy it, otherwise it's not ready for release.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Raven
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Posted: 26th Jul 2008 16:10
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It depends on the loading times though doesn't it Seppuku?
For example, after you install Unreal Tournament 3 (unfortunately Gears of War is cooked differently) you can set-up the unreal.ini to run entirely from the DVD. After doing this while sure I had to wait an extra 10-15seconds for levels to load, I could put up with that as my other option was waiting for the HDD light to stop showing (could take almost 1minute in some cases) for the level to completely load before the game would stop causing jittering right after loading.

Don't get me wrong, installing-to-disk does have the performance benefit; but as most developers still use drive mounting and locking through the Windows API it causes some true performance dips even after the level is completely loaded.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jul 2008 16:45
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If it's merely 10-15 seconds on the lower spec machines then fine and I suppose how often the loading times are, Mass Effect and Oblivion they can be frequent - on my system you barely notice the Oblivion load screens, but on my old system the load screens took about the same time Half Life 2 does on this one. So I wonder, would it multiply those 10-15 seconds? And of course how well would developers optimise it? It seems some engines are great for optimisation, but some not as good. (This thread being already showing an example of that)

And I suppose...what copyright protection? If it'll all on DVD how easy would it be for me to make an ISO and copy it? How effective and DVD/CD copyright be? If copyright is better, then you might want to add that to your argument, it may avoid things such as SecuRom (which people seem to be complaining about), internet activation, codes etc.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Jeku
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Posted: 26th Jul 2008 23:31
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I completed Mass Effect on PC with no issues, aside from a known crash bug at the casino area. Just waiting for the patch and the free expansion.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Jul 2008 00:08 Edited at: 27th Jul 2008 00:08
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Hehe, you're one of the lucky ones - hopefully they release the patch soon, but I can't seem to find any information of what it'll fix or when they may possibly release it, just posts of people complaining about their errors and BioWare staff saying they're working on a patch.


Also, aren't they releasing a couple of sequels to it, which take decisions from your save files? If that's true then that's pretty cool.


Despite my annoyances with the game, I've managed to play quite far and what has been an impressive game - so maybe they'll be fixed after I complete it, which means I'll just restart the game and play it more thoroughly and proberbly try a darker side.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Jul 2008 23:25
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There haven't been any sequels announced yet, but EA likes their sequels so I wouldn't be surprised


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RalphY
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Posted: 28th Jul 2008 00:24 Edited at: 28th Jul 2008 00:25
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Eh? It was announced before even Mass Effect 1 came out that there was gonna be at least three of them in total.

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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Jul 2008 21:56
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Yah, but it's not really officially announced as far as I know. Bioware is working on their fantasy RPG right now.


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