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I'm wondering given each console now has an "Avatar" system (well PSN Home is due out any time now, Sony said it's on the way... erm so yeah), what I'm wondering is; which one do you think is best?

Feature wise, Appearance Wise, etc.?

It is quite interesting to find out, what you guys think about these systems and what you think is cool; what isn't. How you would do things if you were to do it.

What would you base your Avatar system on, if you make your own system?

Gotta love how MS is touting their avatar system as a big innovation on their end. One of the Rare crew on the E3 video asked "What other system has avatars?" or something like that. Good thing they didn't also unveil their It's-Not-A-Wiimote-Motion-Controller at E3

I'll be honest... I never really understood the concept behind it. I have a WII, and I just don't get the MII thing... why would I want that? It's a little lame to me

You mean Mii. Right?

The Mii system is lame, and apparently Microsoft had to copy it... Into an even MORE lame system. Way to go Microsoft!

I honestly think it's BS, I mean, all I freaking want is to play games and sometimes play games with other people, I don't want this avatar crap, it's so ridiculously dumb and unnecessary.
But that's just my opinion I guess.

I believe he actually said was "where else than xbox live can you introduce the concept of the avatar and it becomes a community of 10million"

That said, my point wasn't how does it stack up against the other systems in terms of "who did this best"; it's more what features do you believe as developers are the most exciting or are just dumbass about such things?

Personally speaking, I think the system that Rare has been working on for Microsoft is just beyond what has been seen before. Not in terms of having this overly cute cartoon of yourself on your desktop that kinda doesn't mean a thing. In terms however that literally development wise, in the titles it has been used for so-far it is plug'n'play. Literally you call the class that then takes the players Avatar information and then it'll build it. A number of other functions allow you to set what animation is being played, collect collision data, etc...

With how it stands, you could take the Avatar; create a whole new wardrobe specific to your title. Expand the animations; and bam. Only working on what you specifically need, that's the character artwork done. That would not only considerably cutdown the development of casual game pipelines but also provides a standardised system that everyone can get used to.

I mean imagine how easy it would be to create a new look in FPSCreator, if all you had to do what alter clothes. All the shooting, melee, running, etc.. all of that was pre-made you were just adding in your additional media.

I think that would be great for those who might not be good artists but want a system that can be easily adapted. Think of it for RPGs as well... there's no need to create your own "accessory" and "attachment" system, it's already there. You just have to make the game specific media.

Now to me, that would be an exciting prospect not having to worry as much about characters or having to go out and purchase model packs. I mean hell you could utilise the new "model store" on FPSCreator and pay pittance for new clothes, like say a WW2 pack. Instantly you'd have a WW2 theme with literally point'n'click adaption that would still offer quite a bit of possible variety.

Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe such a system is as pointless as you all seem to think.

Do we have to go other to the avatar thingy? I'm happy with Gamertags and gamerpics.

You can use the old gamerpic system if you want.
Still think everyone isn't quite getting what I'm asking here though.

This is what you're asking. How can we answer this when MS' Avatars and Sony's Home system aren't out yet? For pure speculation, the 360 avatar system appears to have absolutely no benefit to 360s core audience.

My answer was none because I don't like them.

But if I had to choose....

the 360 looks pretty sophisticated. Looks like it's offering more than just a 3d person that represents you.

I understand what you're saying, Raven. I completely agree, I actually really like the Mii's on the Wii. I even think I might like Microsoft's version, although it is a complete rip off of Nintendo's system.

I've come to realize, that every company rips off from another company. Firefox rips things off from the other browsers, IE rips off from FF. But this is good... competition. They're all stinking mooches from each other. Sometimes I wonder if anything is even original anymore, because whenever something 'new' comes out (AeroGlass, for example) all I hear is people complaining about how it's a ripoff.
Anyway you're probably right, Inspire. But oh well.

I think the Mii system is a bit weird. It's cool how they use those guys in different games like Wii Sports. But I still think it's a little weird seeing my brother's Mii face on his Mario Galaxies profile...

It would be better if console makers actually got in step with developers instead of having a slap fest of who should have more say over what. My example? Nintendo and the Mii's. Which developers actually use the Mii's? Hardly any? My guess as to why? Well, for one thing, they are N64 quality and can't be put into many games, especially good games, and games made by reputable companies. They look childish, stupid and silly. Someone at Nintendo thought they would be cute, but failed to realize the flexibility sucked for anything worth the notice. The concept is there, but it's halfass of would it should be. And we all know that what is should be is two, full, blue moonin' cheeks.

I'm not sure what this PSN avatar or new 360 thing is, but it's bound to a least be better than Nintendo's. I don't care if they rip it off... if they build on it, it has to be better.

There is more than enough media and information on all of the systems available to make informed opinions on them even if you haven't yet used them. Just because the WiiMii's are actually out and available doesn't mean everyone has used them, you'd be surprised just how few people even realise that they're used as Accounts and as such just re-create lots of people randomly for a laugh.

Xbox "Avatars" Video

There is a majorly different approach by each of the companies implimentations of these systems.

Nintendo's approach has been for a really basic representation of yourself to use in their 1st party Wii-Exclusive titles. They're not really aimed past something to represent yourself in anything outside of WiiSport, WiiPlay, WiiResort, etc...

Sony's approach is more to sit there as the backbone to their new community design. Providing what their main competitor (Microsoft) do but in a 3D environment. As such your main area becomes your "Home" which you can style and decorate how you choose to, invite round buddies, show off your Trophies (Achievements), watch movies, etc.. This opens up more in to a whole 3D community akin to the Virtual Reality worlds of the late 90s, and the more recent Second Life MMORPG.

Microsoft's approach is to provide a system that allows users to jump between casual games while retaining their own look. This has the flip-side of having a generic style and model-base for developers of casual titles to take advantage of. This makes each use fairly instantly recogniseable when playing these casual titles, as you would say going outside and doing things with friends.

Each approach is a very different stance on what people might want from such systems.

The industry today might seem like they're copying each other but this is how the games industry has always been since it's inception to main stream over 2 decades ago. While this does often create a huge many things that we would rather forget, each generation does it's part to add to the evolution of gaming as we've come to know it.

You can run a whole family tree on features in games, the titles that pioneered them and the ones that took that idea; then ran with it. Competition, and copying is what pushed the industry constantly forward. It is also what forces developers not to stand still and stagnate.

The whole concept of a "generic" Avatar you can use from game-to-game is a fairly new concept, while the concept of an Avatar itself isn't. Nintendo as so often is the case, has pioneered this; but you can guarentee someone else will perfect it and make it something that people will want to use.

I thought given this community is mainly full of gamers who are unbiased for the most part on who has the "best" system; especially as developers what of the new systems being impliment seem the most appealing there might've been a good debate on what might work, what is good and what is bad about what is going on.

Instead what has happened is some of most close minded comments I've honestly seen in a long time. Given the industry is finally begining to reopen to the bedroom programmers, with more and more shift moving to causal games and independant titles... figured that a system that provides developers with a standard of this fashion would've been as exciting to you guys as it is to myself.

It is a shame that I was wrong and the general consences seems to be "I don't care", which although I guess not surprising given I've heard the same reaction about Digital Distribution systems; which now are everywhere, and aren't going away anytime soon. What is disappointing is that so many can't seem to see beyond the here'n'now.

Disappointing and a Shame.
I mean hell, I think a system like the Avatar system would be freaking amazing for TGCs products especially FPSCreator or such. Tie that in with the TGC Store, and User Accounts System. Bam! you have yourself something quickly adaptable as developers, stable across all the titles available; as well as something that users will enjoy. Plus would provide extra revenue for those who like your titles so much they want to purchase the extra outfits to use all the time while talking to friends or even better to show off that they got for free by completing some sort of in-game achievement.

That would only be the tip of the iceberg imo of what such a system can provide.

If I wanted little 3D people that represented me in a game I'd go play second life, but I don't so I won't. Also. The new Xbox system that's coming out won't be optional. If you are connected to Live then you will have no choice.

1• The Xbox Dashboard update might not be an optional upgrade if you wish to continue using LIVE for gaming, however you get three options of Dashboard Style.

Dashboard 2.0 (current dashboard)
Dashboard 3.0 (a revamp of the current dashboard)
Xbox Experience with Dashboard 3.0 (only time you see the Dashboard itself is when you're in Guide Mode, uses Avatars instead of Gamer Pictures)

The option of which you use is entirely up to you. Microsoft isn't forcing you to use anything new you don't want to.

2• This is NOT a topic about the "New Xbox Experience", it's about the Avatar Systems either currently or soon to be implimented in to gamers' daily console lives.

3• Even if you used Second Life, could you take your character from that game and use it in say EVE Online? World of Warcraft? City of Heroes? No, you can't. That is the point I'm trying to make. These Avatar Systems are there for developers to allow people persona to be moved between games just like having a single account for them all.

This is the point I've painfully been making over and over again; The bulk of this thread is information to that effect, and yet everyone keeps focusing on the shiny news of NXE just to bitch about "having to use it" and "useless feature you don't want"

It's not only such a small minded perspective on what they represent, but also it's like going to see you're favourite music group only to spend the entire gig enthrawled by seats that you can adjust with the buttons on the arm rest. Just so sodding retarded it's untrue; honestly I do begin to wonder about the intelligence of the users here.

To be honest with no experience of working with any of the systems it's hard to judge how useful they are. Though I imagine they will have ensured that it's not to much of a pain to implement or no one will use them.

As you say I can see it being useful for arcade games and casual games as it cuts out a lot of the work on creating and animating characters. Wonder if you would be able to generate extra characters using the system to use as NPCs or something?

However it limits you to using the same art style if you choose to implement them. Sure you could have a custom clothe pack, but unless you can change the model completely (and then why not just implement your own system?) it's still going to have that semi-cartoony look.

Also I'm not sure I would want to use the same character in games beyond more casual ones. For example I wouldn't exactly want my character in Fallout 3 to be the same one I use in that 1 vs 100 game.

So I think it could be great for arcade games (depending how easy it is to implement) as it would cut down on a lot of work required, but not much more useful beyond that. I believe they said they had no plans of adding support to XNA, which kinda makes it hard to get excited about as well.

No offense but I can think of at least a dozen things I'd rather TGC be focusing on right now.

The Mii system is gimmicky, but it's only fun if you're playing with a big group of friends or family. There's really no point. The 360 Avatar system looks more fleshed out, with different clothing options, etc., but I really can't see it catching on unless MS forces developers to use it in someway.

AFAIK the Home avatars will not be used in-game, but rather as a Second Life style virtual playground.

Oh man... there's a hundred Mii's on my Wii. My little sisters made them all for fun... everyone and their dog is in there now.. including the top ten american idol contestants.

Raven, I read your posts again, and it appears you are angry that we don't all agree that this concept will revolutionize gaming, and therefore are unintelligent or jaded, etc. You, being a game developer, are more aligned with what this Avatar system will represent. The rest of us who have just the E3 videos do not know that much