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Geek Culture / Windows "Mojave" Experiment

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JoelJ
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 03:05
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... Ok, I'll admit it, I clicked this ad today... it was an ad about "what people think about vista". So I clicked it.

It brought up this page about this "Mojave Experiment", anyone heard of it?

Basically what it is is a version of windows vista that they disguised as a "new" operating system they called "Mojave". At first they asked people what they thought about vista, all of them in this video said that they thought it was horrible, even though they had never used it. Then they let them use this "new" version of windows and had them rate it. All of them loved it.

I know it's an MS paid advertisement. But I believe that this video is pretty much on the spot. I think that so many people hate Vista because of all the horid things they have heard about it. Especially when it first launched, which was apparently awful.

I hated Vista at first. And by hated, I mean... HATED. But after I got it, and used it for a few weeks, I LOVE it. I personally don't even own a computer with XP anymore... I've got vista and ubuntu on my machines now. I love it.


Intel Core2 Duo CPU @ 2.60GHz - 4.00 GB RAM - NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M - Windows Vista Business 32bit
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AaronG
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 04:10
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Yeah I noticed this, it's quite interesting.


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bond1
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 05:20 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2008 05:22
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I've seen this too...I just read an article in Maximum PC where they interviewed one of Microsoft's marketing managers. He acknowledged that the Vista launch was a disaster, although Service Pack 1 addressed most issues. And that Microsoft's main goal at this point it trying to restore consumer faith in their main product, Windows.

So this "Mojave" experiment I'm guessing is trying to do just that. I love Vista now - wouldn't want to go back to XP. But yeah, many people I know still say "Vista sucks" without even trying it.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Jimmy
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 05:52
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Vista sucks and I've tried it.

I call that the "Mochaccino Experiment."

"Oh hey, nice website Jimmy, it's really nice and fancy." -- That C++ Nerd
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 06:44
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I own Vista Ultimate, and it's pretty great

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tha_rami
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 09:04
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When I was working at the electronics retailer, I used to tell people about the experiment when they went 'I heard Vista sucks', then allowed them to play around with Vista on our best laptops and then said 'but, if you get this slightly cheaper one'...


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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 11:13
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My brother had Vista on his new computer. I used it to help him out but gave up because Vista did my head in. Why redesign and move nearly every thing? Oh and Vista is meant to be secure... HAHA!

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tha_rami
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 12:07
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If a 67 year old Windows 98 user can still find everything in Vista on his first try, I think it works pretty well.


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Alucard94
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 12:24 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2008 12:35
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Agh, I have a feeling this will turn out to be one of those Vista fighting threads.


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ionstream
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 12:49
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Not unless people keep their "Windows is buggy and slow and difficult to use and really insecure" comments to themselves :/ .

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David R
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 14:19 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2008 14:24
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Because there's absolutely no chance that MS could have paid actors to do this, right? Right....?

Vista is tolerable, but I wouldn't say it's great, or even that good. It would probably work nicely on my machine with a better processor, or just a general upgrade. The thing is, it offers no advantage to me what so ever. There is no feature I care enough about to upgrade my PC in order to run it. That's not a "preconception", it's my opinion, because I actually bothered to purchase the product (OEM, luckily, I didn't pay out the full retail cost thank God).

The main problem is, MS have tried to squeeze thousands of different 'features' into Vista, to try and appeal to everyone. But they failed miserably, because absolutely none of them appeal to me (or a vast pool of other users, apparently). Overall, Mojave or no Mojave, it's a shambolic mess


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IanM
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 16:01
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No, all the people who took part in the 'experiment' were not associated with MS in any way.

So, MS installed Vista on a set of high-end machines (built from hardware that they chose) ahead of time (to iron out any potential driver issues), put together a fixed walkthrough of applications (that they chose), with hand-picked Vista experts handling that walkthrough. And surprise - people thought the 'new OS' was great!

Now, if only I could get them to do that for me

More seriously though, I only have Vista because it came with the laptop I bought. I'm certainly not impressed enough to upgrade my XP system, and I'm not depressed enough to wipe the Vista machine - as David R said, it's tolerable.

I find it funny how people get so 'religious' about Vista (either pro or con). It's a platform people - the interesting stuff runs on top of it!

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Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 16:11
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I personally like Vista. Yes everything was moved about, but you can't expect every version of Windows to be the same. The one thing that really annoys me is the way so many options are spread out. Take the screensaver, power management, and theme settings for example. On XP you could just right click the desktop, choose 'properties' and you have everything you want. On Vista it's a different story.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 16:44
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Meh. I just upgraded to a new PC a couple of days ago, and pretty much all new PCs are Vista ready, I have Vista now.....

It's ok, all my apps are working as they should. No slowdown compared to when using XP, (although I upgraded to a better PC, so it's hardly conclusive). No bad bugs, no crashes, everything is as it was on XP. I'm good with the layout because I spent my last school year that just ended doing IT lessons on it....

It's inevtiably going to be the OS of the future, just like all the others were when they came out.....

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 17:00
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I like Vista - I had my doubts about it, but I found it was better than I expected. Though, I haven't been without problems and I'll list ALL of my Vista problems since converting in June.

Cinema 4D 10 Demo: Can crash the computer
Maya PLE: Attempting a render with high light settings, program closes itself
The game called The Summoner doesn't work (design for Win98)
My hard drive has a lot of stuff on it, so start up isn't always snappy, it takes a couple of moments (which I'm not complaining about)


One thing I didn't expect:

Most of my old games work, despite talk of compatibility issues, pretty much everything has worked, even Final Fantasy VIII, which I thought would be too old to run. Dark Messiah required the Vista update patch and FFVIII really only required 1 tweak; moving the .exe file outside of the game folder. (and the patch update for nVidia cards: which you need to do on any Windows OS if you have an nVidia card)

As far as security goes, I think every Windows user should know by now, spender an extra £30 on internet security helps (and updating the subscription every year) It's a downside, but I wouldn't say it's a big downside.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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bitJericho
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 17:18
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Quote: "As far as security goes, I think every Windows user should know by now, spender an extra £30 on internet security helps (and updating the subscription every year) It's a downside, but I wouldn't say it's a big downside."


You can get away without it. I haven't used an AV in months and months. Just did a clamav scan and no problems. (I scan suspect files with clamAV).


Hurray for teh logd!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 17:47
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Vista seems pretty secure by itself, especially with UAC enabled. At least, I haven't had any problems yet.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 18:35
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I liked it when I got it and now I HATE it. Im gonna rebuild and get XP on my laptop soon.

DBPRO CODER FOR HIRE!
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Mr Z
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 21:54 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2008 22:01
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Personally I like Vista, but I would never love it. Have pros and cons just like any other OS. On the good side is stability and security, on the bad side is resource hogging and that it treats me as an infant (at last feels that way). But it does its job and it is not bad .

Quote: "I find it funny how people get so 'religious' about Vista (either pro or con). It's a platform people - the interesting stuff runs on top of it!"


Agreed.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
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draknir_
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 22:20
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Its an interesting idea, but the experiment was conducted unscientifically and there was no research paper, so the reliability of the results are very questionable.

Personally I admit to 'hating' vista when I first got it, and now I've gotten used to it. I certainly don't love it or even like it though, I still prefer XP.
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2008 23:45
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Vista is much better for me than XP. In fact I recently tried using XP again on another hard drive (I needed to ensure software I wrote was still compatible with XP) and XP is worse than Vista - even with all my drivers up to date and a minimal amount of software.

XP takes longer than Vista to start up for one.
XP has BSOD'd more in this past month than Vista has in the year and a half I've had it (I think I've had Vista about that long anyways).
I constantly need to restart XP due to unresponsiveness in XP.

For Vista the only problems I've had are these:

The display driver crashed twice 3 or 4 months ago - but after a simple upgrade it worked fine.
Vista BSOD'd once due to a faulty driver.
Aero is slower than Vista Basic & Windows Classic theme (Big surprise, eh?).


When I first got Vista I was taken a little off guard with the layout but I realized the layout was better for newcomers and idiots who use computers, which is the larger majority of people who use computers. So the new design makes sense, especially considering someone who actually knows how to use a computer can figure out the new layout quickly and learn to use it just as efficiently as XPs. If you're STILL having trouble with the layout then you're an idiot.

I don't have SP1, btw, I'm still using the first version of Vista (plus some upgrades) and it works great. I won't make any judgments towards SP1 as I haven't tried it. And if you're making judgments towards SP1 and haven't used it everyday for at least a month then you're words are obviously aimed at something old. It's like saying X sucks without regarding the Y upgrade.

Cheers,

-naota

I'm not a dictator to those that do stuff for me by will. Only those who don't.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 00:46
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Quote: "Aero is slower than Vista Basic & Windows Classic theme (Big surprise, eh?)."


Suprisingly, Aero has been very fast for me. No difference, in my experience. And I completely agree about the layout of menus. They're meant to be easier.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
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Mr Z
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 01:38
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Honestly, I could not go back to XP even if I wanted. XP does not work at all, all I get is an "Error loading operating system" message the minute I try to start it .

But honestly, I do not want to go back. Because I am tired of Xp. Nothing wrong with it, have just used it so much I am tired of ut.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
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JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 02:31
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I think Vista is refreshing. I like it because it looks great and the gadget bar is pretty sweet. As far as resource hogging goes, it doesn't bother me, because I have RAM to spare. 4Gigs of ram is plenty. Actually, since I have Vista 32bit, it's only using like 3.2gigs. I've never used more than like... 70% of my ram at once. And that's with a LOT of programs open. If I needed to clear up more memory, I would. Turn off the gadgets, turn off all my services that I don't really use, turn down the graphical settings, etc.

I like it because it's good looking, and it runs everything I want to. It took me a while to get used to it though. And I think that's why I don't like using Linux or Mac. Even though you make them look good (Which uses less memory than vista) it doesn't run everything I want to (Specifically Visual Studio.net )

But Vista startup time... there's one thing for sure... they need to fix Vista's startup time. I timed it once... 3 1/2 minutes. That's from power on, to when everything stops loading. But it has a lot to do with the random server software that's installed and a few other things...


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 02:31
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With XP, before I got SP2, it was a nightmare for me, ever sinces its first release - its speed decayed. When I started 3D modelling it was still a problem - especially considering it buggered up whilst I was working on something I was proud of. After I discovered SP2, problems gone away - SP2 I found was quite solid, better than Vista in someways.

Vista has worked nicely out of the box as I've said in a previous post - my experience with XP made me think Vista would be hell, especially as I heard bad things about it, people here disputed such stuff with their Vista discussions and so I wasn't as reluctant. This start off has given me good feelings about Vista's future - as it's more stable than XP was at the start.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 02:42
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Quote: "But Vista startup time... there's one thing for sure... they need to fix Vista's startup time. I timed it once... 3 1/2 minutes."

Ouch, that's bad. I'm pretty sure mine doesn't take that long to start up. It's very quick to shut down though, I think it's actually quicker than entering sleep mode.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 03:08
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My computer with Vista boots and shuts down really fast - that is, unless you have just installed updates. Then it takes awhile, but that's understandable. It's installing / updating things. Windows starts responding much sooner than my XP install did. I have all the same stuff installed on my Vista system as I did on XP.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

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Satchmo
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 04:14
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Vista boots faster than Ubuntu here.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 07:53
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I wonder why it takes so long... I'm going to look into it... because my computer isn't exactly slow..


Intel Core2 Duo CPU @ 2.60GHz - 4.00 GB RAM - NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M - Windows Vista Business 32bit
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ionstream
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 08:22
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Quote: "But Vista startup time... there's one thing for sure... they need to fix Vista's startup time. I timed it once... 3 1/2 minutes."


Really? On my laptop it takes less than a minute, but then again I did stop some annoying laptop programs from starting (I don't need modem software dangit, this is the 21st century!)

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JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 23:52
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I turned off some services that the school installed on my computer, like mSQL and mySQL. Still 3:30, pretty much exactly. From pressing the power button to when the "loading" cursor goes away. The majority of that time is spent logging in, so it's gotta be the applications it starts up.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 23:59
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3:30, something's wrong with your computer.

~30 seconds on my mother's year old c2d machine w/ 2gigs. About 60 on my p4 3.2ghz machine.


Hurray for teh logd!
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JoelJ
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 01:27
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I think it's just the set up... the school just installed everything they think we might want... which includes HTTP/FTP/SQL servers and who knows what else. So I just need to clean up I think.

I never really cared to bother with it, because I mentioned the slow vista startup time to someone who uses vista a lot, and he said, "Yeah, that's Vista"... so I just decided to ignore it


IntelCore2Duo@2.60GHz-4GB RAM-NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M-Windows Vista Business 32bit
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 02:46
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Quote: "It's very quick to shut down though, I think it's actually quicker than entering sleep mode."


I noticed that, weird.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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Sven B
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 21:09
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I was a bit scared of Vista at first, but when I tried it I liked it.

It IS true however that the pc specs need to be better in order to use Vista to its fullest. 2GB RAM and a dual core 2GHz+ is a minimum. Luckily, 2GB and a dual core isn't an exception anymore on most computers.

And finally, you should always continue to clean your pc (especially the defragmentation tool).

I never had any problems with any programs either. Only some compatability options that had to be changed (eg. CodeSurge which we all know very well).

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 21:17
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Vista has (by default, I think.) a scheduled defragment about once a week. It usually happens at, like, 2 AM so it doesn't bother you, but it happens automatically once a week. Unless you disable it, of course.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 21:21
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Quote: "It usually happens at, like, 2 AM so it doesn't bother you,"

You leave your PC on 24/7?

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 21:33
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Yeah, I just lock it. Why turn it off and have to wait for it to start back up every time you turn it back on.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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bond1
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 21:33
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Vista definitely boots faster than XP for me.

I read that nearly 20% of all support calls about Vista problems at launch were attributed to Nvidia display drivers, the largest percentage of any single cause by far. So, was it Nvidia's fault for releasing dodgy drivers, or Microsoft's fault for not providing adequate info to developers? It's a moot point now, Vista is rock solid for me now...does it change the way I do things? No, but at least it doesn't hinder me.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 21:43
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Quote: "Yeah, I just lock it. Why turn it off and have to wait for it to start back up every time you turn it back on."

Well rather than waste the energy you could just put it into standby mode, and learn that a bit of patience can save the energy bill-payer money.

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WildCat
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 21:51
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I love Vista. I could never switch back to Xp. I have AVG but there is no need for it. I have turned off... I have never got a virus or anything at all.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 21:59
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meh, true, but its a very small amount of energy.

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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David R
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 22:37
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Quote: "I love Vista. I could never switch back to Xp. I have AVG but there is no need for it. I have turned off... I have never got a virus or anything at all.
"


This a mindset that's starting to scare me now, it seems to be becoming more popular - "I have Vista, I've never had a virus, so I won't use AV"



09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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Samoz83
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 22:41
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Quote: "meh, true, but its a very small amount of energy."


keep it on all the time it isn't

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Mr Z
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 22:53
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Quote: "I read that nearly 20% of all support calls about Vista problems at launch were attributed to Nvidia display drivers, the largest percentage of any single cause by far."


Another number is that, what I have heared, 30 % of all Vista crashes was caused by Nvidia drivers.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
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Mr Z
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 22:55 Edited at: 26th Aug 2008 22:56
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Quote: "This a mindset that's starting to scare me now, it seems to be becoming more popular - "I have Vista, I've never had a virus, so I won't use AV""


I agree with you, no system is bullet proof. To pretend it is might not be the brightest thing to do.

EDIT:

Sorry for the double post, second time today .

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
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JoelJ
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 07:17
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Quote: "Sorry for the double post, second time today "

why not... edit the first post? or did you do that on accident?


Quote: "This a mindset that's starting to scare me now, it seems to be becoming more popular - "I have Vista, I've never had a virus, so I won't use AV"

I use AV right now, but I usually don't, and I don't not because i think my OS is invincible, but because I'm not trying to download pirated software or something stupid like that. So generally I'm safer. So every once in a while I would install an AV program and see what I've got. Haven't had a virus in ages.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 09:58
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Vista doesn't require a c2d. I use a p4, no probs. 2 gigs of ram is recommended though. You can get away pretty comfy with only 1 gig, but it will get sluggish when gaming or doing a lot of multitasking stuff.


Hurray for teh logd!
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Mr Z
17
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Joined: 27th Oct 2007
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 10:23
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Quote: "why not... edit the first post? or did you do that on accident?"


Yeah, I think of that AFTER I post me second post. Post first, think later. Not good.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
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Insanity Complex
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 16th Sep 2005
Location: Home
Posted: 27th Aug 2008 14:50
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Quote: "You can get away pretty comfy with only 1 gig, but it will get sluggish when gaming or doing a lot of multitasking stuff."


If you aren't smart you'll continue to run Vista on 512MB of RAM. Hence the upstairs computer I now refuse to use, and probably the cause of all my bad experiences with Vista...lol.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/g/banners/109.jpg <-My favorite
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