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Geek Culture / Abnormal lag issue, Help needed.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 19:55 Edited at: 27th Aug 2008 20:21
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Okay, so I don't usually like to ask for help but this has me stumped. I got mount & blade. Great game, however it lags like crazy on my computer. My specs were fine -

2 gigs of ram
2.5g single core processor
256mb video card (ati radeon x1300)

And plenty of space. I stored the game on my external hard drive. When I start up (like most games) I instinctively turn the graphics all the way down. Resolution, color depth, everything. I figured I would work up from there. The game starts up, and there is intense lag.

+ It gets much worse depending on what direction you are facing.
+ Around 10 fps if you are standing on the edge of the map looking out into nothing
+ Around 3 fps (unbearable almost!) if you are looking in towards the battlefield or the world map.

So, I figured the system requirements were just goofy and that was that. It was my pc.
But then, my friend got the game. His computer is equal specs to mine (perhaps a bit less) and he tells me that there is no lag at all.

Surprised, I figure that the game may be constantly loading data off of the working directory (my external hard drive) which is making it slow. So I move the game to my original C: drive.
The lag issue is unchanged.
So I move it back (I don't like files on my C: ) and crank up the graphics all the way, just to test.
Here is where it gets odd.

With the graphics and the resolution and color depth maxed out, there is no change of frame rate. Still the same instense directional-dependent lag from before, when the graphics were all the way down.

This is really stumping me. I thought it may be dust covering my cpu, but after a spray down of the inside of my pc with an anti-dust formula there is no change.
So, pc detectives, lend me your nice powerful brain so I can figure this out. Suggestions are really welcome.

EDIT: And I have 5 different virus scanners on my pc, so I doubt it is a virus.
Supreme commander on an 81x81 map doesn't even lag as much as this.

SunnyKatt(ZekeGames)

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 21:29
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Just a thought...have you played anything else since you got it? Maybe your graphics card died or something.

Your friend's specs are a little worse you say, does that mean he has a different graphics card? It could be your graphics card does not support it...some games don't work with certain graphics cards.

I think the framerate stays the same because your graphics card must be able to support it all the up way in the game easily, but something else is causing it to lag so the framerate stays the same.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 21:38
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Yes, I was just playing supreme commander today.

My friend has a tad less ram I believe, if not then we are equal.

The trick is figuring out what that other thing is that is making it lag.
Thanks for helping!

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_Nemesis_
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 21:40
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My friend gets a very similar problem in certain games. Changing from OpenGL to DirectX rendering fixed it for him. If this is an option in your game, you might want to try that. If not, might be a shader issue. Is there any option to disable them?

Just some ideas.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 22:43
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Weather the shaders are disabled or not doesn't effect it. And last I checked it didn't let me change the rendering, so I'll look into it.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 23:15
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Okay, major update.

I changed the render method do dx7 (the only other one available) and the lag receeded a tiny bit, it is usually 4 or 5 instead of 3 now (still unbearable).

But, when I opened up task manage while the game was playing, the game used 0% of processor power. The processor wasn't focusing on the game. I tried increasing the process priority, but it doesn't help.

Any help on this?

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Haven Studios
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 23:35
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Well what game is it?

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 23:35
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Quote: "But, when I opened up task manage while the game was playing, the game used 0% of processor power. The processor wasn't focusing on the game. I tried increasing the process priority, but it doesn't help."


Was the game off screen and in the task bar while you where looking at task manager? Because if it was then the game would be froze while it's not on screen, so that's why it would show up as 0%.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 23:41
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I said mount+blade.

And the game was minimized, but the game was still using 1.5 gigs of my memory.

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Haven Studios
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 23:45
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interesting.....try the following

1. close explorer run it manually through task manager
2. try doing a disk cleanup
3. restart
4. go to task manager and set priority to high
5. close everything, all programs, but windows so it will still run and explorer then run it manually
6. run a virus scan
7. get the newest patch

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 23:47
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Quote: "but the game was still using 1.5 gigs of my memory"


It would be, otherwise it would cease to exist.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 23:49
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Still, I thought 1.5 would be an awful lot for that game. (The whole game is only 100mb. )
@unleashed - A disk cleanup I have yet to do. I doubt any other programs are interfering, but I'll see what I can do about that.
Thanks for the help.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 00:25
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Quote: "Still, I thought 1.5 would be an awful lot for that game. (The whole game is only 100mb. )"


It does sound a lot. The game should have a set of minimum and/or recommended machine specs listed somewhere. What do they say?

I assume you've tried re-booting.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 00:25 Edited at: 28th Aug 2008 00:29
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Quote: "but the game was still using 1.5 gigs of my memory."

Way out of proportion of the system requirements (here), sounds like a memory leak or something.

Perhaps try the latest patch.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 00:57
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I already have the highest version. I did try re-booting already (I've owned the game for a month or so now).
Though that used memory was the games usage with page file and ram combined I think. Not sure.

Do you think that an entire re-install on the C: drive would make a difference rather than just moving it there and running?

Also, does it matter that I only have 3 gigs free on my hard drive?

Thanks for the help.

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Haven Studios
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 01:01
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Quote: "Also, does it matter that I only have 3 gigs free on my hard drive?"


do a disk clean or unistall some stuff just open search disk clean and do it with 3 gigs how are you even running windows little sdisk space slows ur computer down

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 01:07
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Thought so. I'll move oblivion over to my nice big fat maxtor.
Thanks.

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Haven Studios
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 01:18
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ok plkease report what happenes cause im curios to know also my bad typing is due t the fact that im plkaying xbox live right now

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 01:32
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I will, it will take awhile to move this stuff.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 03:24
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Update, with 5 more gigs free there is a 1 increase in framerate. Still really laggy.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 05:19
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Quote: "Update, with 5 more gigs free there is a 1 increase in framerate. Still really laggy. "


Freeing space doesn't do $h!t if you don't defragment.

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WildCat
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 05:48
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Quote: "Freeing space doesn't do $h!t if you don't defragment. "


That takes HOURS on my computer.

Like 9-10 hours.

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Haven Studios
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 06:25
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Quote: "Update, with 5 more gigs free there is a 1 increase in framerate. Still really laggy."



my god tell me this how big is your harddrive

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 06:31
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5 Gigs is really not big for a portable HD. My portable HD is 100 GB.
You are probably thinking of a flash drive, one of the little thumb sized ones. I think he means an actual portable Hard drive. And, really, even the flash drives can get up to 8GB

If the good lord had intended us to go outside or have a social life, he wouldn't have invented the internet.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 07:11
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Quote: "That takes HOURS on my computer.

Like 9-10 hours."


Even still, freeing space doesn't help at all. Defragmenting is what helps.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 07:24
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It's nothing to do with fragmented files. He says it lags in game, by which time all files should be loaded into memory and the HDD probably won't be accessed.

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Haven Studios
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 08:00
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still when you defrag because it does increase you're speed made mine go up by 30% download AusLogics Disk Defrag. It is a free ware defragger and its very good!

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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 08:26
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No. It won't increase the speed of the game.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 14:57
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My external hard drive is 500 gigs. My actual hard drive is 30 gigs, I moved 10 of them to my external. The second 5 didn't do anything. But after the first 5, I had some more page file space.

So... does anyone have ideas on how to help this issue?

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 15:25
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Defragging only speeds up boot times, not FPS in a game. This has to be the most idiotic thing you could have said. You might think you know what your on about, but you clearly arent.

@ZekeGames

What graphic card you you actually have? Give full details.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 15:53 Edited at: 28th Aug 2008 15:53
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You've probably got a memory leak - it's likely to be a bug problem or poor optimisation on behalf of the developer, I had a similar sort of problem with Mass Effect (runs fine, but gradually goes down to any unplayable FPS - though tweaks from their technical support forum made the game playable, but the slow downs were still very annoyng)

Perhaps check-out the game's community (forum?), other people might be experiencing a similar problem and may have found the solution.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 16:19
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I just read that the game was created by a husband-wife team from Turkey... Maybe that's why it lags

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James H
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 16:25
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Or maybe its the 5 antivirus programs running in the background?
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WildCat
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 16:32
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Wth do you need 5 for?

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 17:53 Edited at: 28th Aug 2008 18:18
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@higgins

Ati Radeon x1300
256 vram
Not sure about the other stuff at the moment.

A pretty old card, but runs many games fine. Supports hdr and all that jazz.

@seppuku - Nobody else has the problem, I looked. Some say stuff about bad lag, but they fix it in ways I tried already.

@james + wildcat

They don't interfere much with my other games.

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Pricey
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 20:39 Edited at: 28th Aug 2008 20:40
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Thats insane, did you try getting the very latest drivers for your card?

Your card is an ATi, do you have Catalyst installed? Catalyst used to give me all kinds of problems, try uninstalling it and just installing the ATi device driver.

Also, have you considered it may be a problem with your sound card? Sound cards can cause just as much lag as graphics cards.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=97191&b=32
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Mahoney
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 21:00
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Quote: "Defragging only speeds up boot times, not FPS in a game. This has to be the most idiotic thing you could have said. You might think you know what your on about, but you clearly arent."


The pagefile gets fragmented. A game that takes a lot of RAM (I don't know if this one does, but many recent games do) cause plenty of pagefile usage.

Quote: "Defragging only speeds up boot times, not FPS in a game. This has to be the most idiotic thing you could have said. You might think you know what your on about, but you clearly arent."


I simply stated that deleting files does nothing without defragmenting; not that it would fix his extremely low framerate. You may think you know what I said, but you clearly don't.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 21:57
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@pricey

Yes, I have the latest catalyst. That is what the card came with, do you suggest a different driver?

And I don't know what my sound card is, or anything about it really.

My drivers are pretty new, I'll check for new ones sometime.
Thanks.

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James H
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 01:43
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It might be worth noting that for some games(and in some cases the card itself), older catalyst drivers work better. For example I had an ati 9600xt that ran Oblivion better on the 6.4 drivers than any of the newer ones. DBP exe`s also ran better - some of those drivers dropped framrates by two thirds in DBP.
I don`t have/play the game your having problems with but if it loads in data from your hd at runtime like Oblivion does then defragging could still help significantly. The min spec of 512 RAM would be based on the lowest of settings so putting the settings up would increase the demand on resources, so 1.5 gig ram for that game may not be unusual, coupled with the demand of system/OS resources would mean you system is utilizing the page file heavily. Its the heavy use of pagefile that would slow down the framrate as your RAM speed would effectively be hardrive speed when the pagefile is used. If this was the case then defragging could help in the manner Mahoney has already stated. Bare in mind that Oblivion is well written, lowering your settings for your game might be a key factor for RAM usage, or if it loads data all the time while running(you will hear your hd working away) defragging might help more.
If it was your AV programs running in the background causing the lag then Oblivion would have the same issue - if you don`t have Oblivion maybe you have another game that loads data all through runtime that you could test this on. Note that if your AV programs work without affecting any other games, it might just mean they don`t load data from your hd all through runtime. Some AV software have a gaming mode option - this just prevents checking data from network ie in multiplayer.

Good luck
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 03:04
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Chuck out the AV. They're probably interfering with one another. One should be enough; if one won't stop stuff coming in, five generally won't.

How much a year are you shelling out for your protection? Got to be at least £100. And it's all wasted.

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 04:28
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One is payed, the other 2 I don't update, the other two are free. Besides, they don't interfere with other games anyway.

@james - Old? Hrm...
I was re-calcing usage today with task manager. Turns out it did use my cpu (99% of it, everything else combined was 1%) and the ram usage was actually more like 800 megs.

I have oblivion, it runs just fine.

I'm too scared to defrag my maxtor, one time it took 10 hours and it only got 3% done, I had to cancel it (no damage done).
My C: can be done in a day though, I'll probably do that soon.

I still have a feeling my evil processor is behind this.

Thanks for the help.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 04:30
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Quote: "I'm too scared to defrag my maxtor, one time it took 10 hours and it only got 3% done, I had to cancel it (no damage done).
My C: can be done in a day though, I'll probably do that soon."


How long do wait in between defragmenting for it to take that long?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 06:44
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Quote: "And I have 5 different virus scanners on my pc, so I doubt it is a virus."


Almost certainly the problem. We can't assist you further if you don't deactivate them and check.

Seriously, I don't run any a/v, 5 is pretty silly.


Hurray for teh logd!
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 08:45
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Quote: "I'm too scared to defrag my maxtor, one time it took 10 hours and it only got 3% done, I had to cancel it (no damage done). "


Holy hand grenades, what utility are you using to defrag that??? Screw windows defrag and use Auslogics Disk Defrag. Windows defrag is horrible.

I don't care how anal you are about virus's, running 5 different programs of AV is retarded. I don't mean to insult intelligence here, I'm just being blunt because it sounds like you keep shrugging off us telling you to uninstall them. Not only is it a complete waste of system resources, but believe it or not some of them cancel out each other and actually do more harm than good by creating bigger holes.

On a side note, and maybe a more debate one, never pay for AV/Firewall/Spyware protection. There are several good ones I can name off the top of my head that are perfectly fine for home computer use, and they are free. If your looking at pr0n or downloading teh torrentz expect to get nailed by virus's regardless of what your using.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 13:07 Edited at: 29th Aug 2008 13:15
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(Edited post - forgot to check next page. )

Quote: "Almost certainly the problem. We can't assist you further if you don't deactivate them and check."


I'd go with that advice. If you're worried about viruses while they are off just disconnect from any networks you are on until you've completed the tests.

Then let us know how you get on.

On the defrag issue, I used to defrag only occasionally using the Windows defragger and it used to take ages. I now defrag regularly it takes no time at all.

Clearing junk off your PC regularly is a good idea too.
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 15:25
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Okay, I'll look into that. Whenever I play anything I shut down them all except for norton.
I'll see what difference they make.
And yes, I use the crappy windows defrag.
What defrag do you guys want me to use?

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 16:00
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Quote: "What defrag do you guys want me to use?"


Up to you.

I use TuneUp Utilities on my laptop - but you have to pay for that. They seem to work well as far as I can tell. The first defrag took quite some time - but after that it was almost instantaneous. I think the key is to do regular maintenance so problems don't build-up.

Have you ruled out a hardware fault?
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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 16:27
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What's bad about Windows Defrag?

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 17:57
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Quote: "What's bad about Windows Defrag?"


It leaves lots of fragmented files compared to TuneUp. In fact after using TuneUp I had large tracts of contiguous free space, but after using Windows I still had noticeable fragmentation - and Windows itself still said I needed to defrag even immediately after it had just completed defragging. Hasn't happened since I defragged using TuneUp - and TuneUp is much faster.

That evidence is good enough for me.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 20:54
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Quote: "What's bad about Windows Defrag?"


Quote: "It leaves lots of fragmented files compared to TuneUp. In fact after using TuneUp I had large tracts of contiguous free space, but after using Windows I still had noticeable fragmentation - and Windows itself still said I needed to defrag even immediately after it had just completed defragging. Hasn't happened since I defragged using TuneUp - and TuneUp is much faster.

That evidence is good enough for me."


While I personally don't care to use anything but Windows Defrag, I will say that you're reasons are valid. Windows Defrag is a cutdown version of Diskeeper. That's basically why.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
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