Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Mistake all developers make with rpg's

Author
Message
General Reed
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2006
Location:
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 03:04
I really like rpg's. There great. But one thing seems to ruin most of them for me. The combat systems. Theres nothing wrong with the point/upgrade systems in most rpgs, but the actual combat it self. Like in nwn and others, watching your character attack is so boring. Its unrealistic too. Why would there be a precise 2 second delay between each swing of the sword. I practiace many stave/sword based martial arts, and if you did that you would be dead in your first fight. Its Rediculous! lol.

There are only two proper rpg's i enjoy, as they have decent combat systems. Oblivion(of course) and mass effect.

Does anyone else agree that this is a very common mistake? If not could you explain why it is done in this boring tedius mannor?

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

Mr Tank
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Nov 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 03:17
I'm not keen on the whole two people taking turns to hit eachother in the face with a sharp object system either.

i guess it's easier to make a system like that. You don't need a better system to sell games. Also, having a proper combat system would mean that high powered characters could still get taken down by talented newbies, which some RPG players don't like the idea of, i guess. Personally i prefer skill based combat.

Aslo, given that a lot of rpgs are online, lag plays a factor too.

Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 03:36 Edited at: 21st Sep 2008 03:37
You're forgetting that "RPG" encapsulates many different styles.

Action RPG: Oblivion, Morrowind, Mass Effect, Gothic 1-3, et cetera. These include live combat and usually open worlds.

MMORPG: WoW, NWN, thousands I don't care about. These are online, have a turn-based battle system with free movement (minus jump, usually), and are very open-world.

Turn-based CRPG: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, basically anything Square-Enix. These are turn-based, sometimes openworld, and are usually based on strategy, not action.

So, judge the game based on how good it is for the genre, not how close it is to what you want an RPG to be.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
ico
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 03:57
There's also the pen and paper RPG's that RPGs first originated from. D&D etc..

jasonhtml
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2004
Location: OC, California, USA
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 04:01
i agree, both oblivion's and mass effect's combat systems are superior to other RPG's, but there is one thing to keep in mind: games are getting more sophisticated, so, games designed around a more outdated combat system will have turn based-like systems. many people enjoy being actively engaged in a videogame, but, for example, World of Warcraft couldnt possibly handle real time combat in a zone with hundreds of people, NPCs, and creatures. i think as internet speeds and processing power increase, we will see more action in games, regardless of the genre. (action not necessarily being violent games, but just more interactive in more ways)

Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 04:50
Quote: "both oblivion's and mass effect's combat systems are superior to other RPG's"


Quote: "games designed around a more outdated combat system will have turn based-like systems"


You do realize that some people want the turn-based system, right? It's not an "outdated" thing, it's something that many of of love.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Osiris
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 05:03
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Rampage
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 05:27
I think it depends what you are into. I absolutely LOVE oblivion's combat system, it wouldn't be a Elder Scrolls Series without it, imagine if they made the next game turn based? That would be a MASSIVE disappointment!
But then on the other hand there a popular games like the Final Fantasy series, they basically have all been turn based, if number 14 turns out to be completely free form, it just plainly wouldn't be the Final Fantasy series! Some ff games are Free Form like Derge of Cerebrus and Crisis Core I think but still.

[url=][/url][href]http://www.rampagemod.webs.com[\href]
Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 06:11
Diablo? I've always hated turn-based games, so boring, thats why I liked Diablo.


Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 06:28
I like the old system as well as the new. With the old school battle system you have to look at it as a battle in slow motion. If you think about it, all the attributes that make you better in battle, would actually make you better in real life. Agility would account for more attacks over time, just like it allows you attack more often in a battle system like that. While it's not active and fluent, it's still realistic.

The new style of battle system incorporates those things, but in a more fluent, active way. For those that appreciate finely coordinated strategy, the old battle system is still the way to go. But those that like hack and slash battle systems, the new system is the way to go. The same can be said about the ability to use team members in battle. The old system allows coordination between team mates, while the new system (such as oblivion), makes it next to impossible to be able to form a finely tuned strategy.

Final Fantasy 12's approach on combining the two was interesting, and I liked it a lot. The only thing I would have changed was that the person you control could use hack and slash, while the other party members stuck to the rpg elements... but then that would mean that not every button mash would result in an attack. You could remedy this by speeding battle up a lot, but you lose some of the cinematics when you do that I suppose.

Just my take on things.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 06:37 Edited at: 21st Sep 2008 06:38
Quote: "But then on the other hand there a popular games like the Final Fantasy series, they basically have all been turn based, if number 14 turns out to be completely free form, it just plainly wouldn't be the Final Fantasy series!"


From what I can tell watching the trailer, it's basically the standard ATB system but flashier and with a Sims-style action "lineup." That's how it seems, at least.



It also seems that, instead of the ATB taking longer to charge based on what the action is, it will now, take a percentage of the gauge away based on the points required for the action. Interesting. . .

Quote: "Some ff games are Free Form like Derge of Cerebrus and Crisis Core I think but still."


And those aren't even the main series.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 06:56
I'm an RPG noob, but I always preferred turn-based systems if I have a choice. I like to sit and carefully plan out each move, like in Mario RPG. In games like Diablo I find you're just click-click-clicking all the time--- not any real strategy involved. I can spend upwards of an hour on some of the more challenging Advance Wars missions just carefully planning out my moves.


Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 07:07 Edited at: 21st Sep 2008 07:09
I know. Strategy beats action any day, as far as I'm concerned. Besides, Diablo got boring for me.

I've played a lot of FFIV DS recently, and it hard enough to leave you relying almost 100% for boss fights.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
flickenmaste
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd May 2008
Location:
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 08:10
Id prefer and RPG or an MMO with a fighting style like savage!


[url=http://userbarmaker.com/][img]
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2005
Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 13:43
I think it's a bit boring to use a Final Fantasy system. I thought Partners in Time for the DS got it just right, turn based but with at least a little sense that the player is doing something other than hitting onscreen buttons.

Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 14:56
Quote: "I'm an RPG noob, but I always preferred turn-based systems if I have a choice. I like to sit and carefully plan out each move, like in Mario RPG. In games like Diablo I find you're just click-click-clicking all the time--- not any real strategy involved. I can spend upwards of an hour on some of the more challenging Advance Wars missions just carefully planning out my moves."


I'm with you 100% there.

I find the frantic button/mouse-clicking of some games very irritating - especially as I never seem to get the timing right. But there are times when mindless thrashing around is just what the doctor ordered - problem is I'm usually the one who gets thrashed.

Quote: "Strategy beats action any day, as far as I'm concerned. Besides, Diablo got boring for me."


Yep. I managed to finish Diablo eventually, but got stuck in Diablo II - forgot to save at a critical point and lost all my "goodies". I'll return to it one day - I like the style of the game - except for the mindless frantic button clicking.

I much prefer to think about the next move, make a cup of coffee then implement my latest cunning plan. In real-time non-turn based games I tend to forget to press the pause button (when there is one) and find I've been hammered while my attention was elsewhere.

Perhaps I'm just showing my age?
Roxas
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2005
Location: http://forum.thegamecreators.com
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 15:26
Turn-Based RPG are more stratetic and some people prefer them more. Most stragetic turn based system ive seen is in FFX I really love the battle system in that.

Tho if you want more like RTS stratetic gameplay there is always Final Fantasy Tactics and some other RPG's well actually these RPG's are usually called SRPG's

But like you said that you hate Stratetic RPG's and want more action then here is some really good games you may like:

Kingdom Hearts (2 is more action ), Devil May Cry and IOT (Mike Inel's game can be found on this forum.)

Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 15:44
Quote: "Most stragetic turn based system ive seen is in FFX I really love the battle system in that."


So did I, until I got the sphere grid and was like... wat.

Quote: "Kingdom Hearts (2 is more action ), Devil May Cry and IOT (Mike Inel's game can be found on this forum.)"


Yeah, while I get annoyed at repetitive button mashing sometimes, I did not feel a bit of hate towards it in any of the KH games. It was done very well and was very fun.

What are feelings on twelves Roxas? You still like FFX's over FFXII's?

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Sep 2008 18:39
Quote: "I thought Partners in Time for the DS got it just right, turn based but with at least a little sense that the player is doing something other than hitting onscreen buttons."


The Mario & Luigi games are a good introduction to turn-based games. I love them.

Quote: "I find the frantic button/mouse-clicking of some games very irritating - especially as I never seem to get the timing right. But there are times when mindless thrashing around is just what the doctor ordered - problem is I'm usually the one who gets thrashed. "


You just summed up my experience with God of War.

You should try Final Fantasy X, if you haven't already. It's great for strategy. Assuming, of course, you understand what's going on. Once you get a hold of how stats affect battle, it's a wonderful play.

Quote: "Yep. I managed to finish Diablo eventually, but got stuck in Diablo II - forgot to save at a critical point and lost all my "goodies". I'll return to it one day - I like the style of the game - except for the mindless frantic button clicking."


Same here. I made it to just before Diablo with a Level 21 assassin, then realized I was bored as could be. So, I quit. v.v

Quote: "Most stragetic turn based system ive seen is in FFX I really love the battle system in that."


It is a very good system. They should really re-use the CTB sometime.

Quote: "So did I, until I got the sphere grid and was like... wat."


:o But that's one of the best parts!

Quote: "Quote: "Kingdom Hearts (2 is more action ), Devil May Cry and IOT (Mike Inel's game can be found on this forum.)"

Yeah, while I get annoyed at repetitive button mashing sometimes, I did not feel a bit of hate towards it in any of the KH games. It was done very well and was very fun. "


It is a great game. I can't wait to try 2.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Aaron Miller
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Feb 2006
Playing: osu!
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 02:08
I like turn based for the reason Jeku mentioned, but I also like the Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts 2 style of it.

Cheers,

-naota

I'm not a dictator to those that do stuff for me by will. Only those who don't.
SunnyKatt
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Sep 2006
Location: USA
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 02:42
I LOVE strategy rpg's such as final fantasy tactics. They are so good. Combat is basically the game itself, doesn't get old.

Favorite Quote: Dramatized code? Code Drama!

jasuk70
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Dec 2002
Location: Hemel Hempstead
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 13:33
I'm a Turn Based RPG Fan. What most people seem to forget is, you are playing a "Character". The idea in the P&P RPG's is to create an alter ego which has statistics which make up the character. Based on those statistics is how your character performs.

Today, most people seem to think that a RPG is about how fast you can click a mouse and how good you are a pressing different key combinations quickly. When I was young, this sort of thing used to be called "Adventure" games.

Tough it seems that anything that has player stats now-a-days is called an RPG. (And usually its not the stats that count but how the player controls the character with the mouse and keyboard)

I used to love the Gold Box AD&D games by SSI, and Might and Magic (The old ones not the new action adventure game that came out recently) And the last really good Turn based (I.e. Proper ) RPG I played was Wizardry 8.

It's a common thing in world today that people get bored very quickly so game development has gone that way. Even strategy games don't sell unless they are "Real Time" Strategy games.

A nice compromise that has been reached, especially with the AD&D single player games, is to add in the pause play options to enable you to give orders to your characters when the game is paused. This is seen in games like the Neverwinter Nights games. (Another one I quite like at the moment).

Personally I'd like to see more turn based games come out where the battles are quite large and you have to sit and think about what to do.

Oh dear I seem to have rambled. Better get back to work

Jas

----
"What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not'release' software. It escapes leaving a bloody trail of developers and quality assurance people in its wake!"
Roxas
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Nov 2005
Location: http://forum.thegamecreators.com
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 16:28
Quote: "What are feelings on twelves Roxas? You still like FFX's over FFXII's?"


Well maybe you get my point from this.. Even i love world of Ivalice from Final Fantasy Tactics games (Keeps me busy for 200+ hours )
Well i started playing the XII and after one hour i was like "WTF" and got really bored of the game. All i can say XII was fail even the world was based on ivalice which i kinda like

I dunno why but the game just was too boring and propaply too brown but i really liked FFXII Reveant Wings it was really good stragetic rpg with nice visuals.

Quote: "So did I, until I got the sphere grid and was like... wat."

I think the sphere grid is so far best leveling system there is. Well actually no.. Its really good but there is another system wich i love same amount. FFIX system and FF Tactics A2 system aka you equip some equipment and get skill from them then you master that skill and you can use the skill without wearing the equipment.

Really simple but awesome system


Also Jeku if you like stragety you should really look into Final Fantasy Tactics and some other SRPG's
If you have DS i suggest buying FFXII:RW (Even the orginal 12 was bad this isnt) and Tactics A2 <- im so addicted with tactics lol
Also i may recommended FFIV but personally i hated it. It was really bad port and seemed like Squenix dint even try to make good game. The III was okey but not so good either. Its propaply just me because i dont like older FF's.

Alucard94
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Jul 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 16:36
Quote: "I think the sphere grid is so far best leveling system there is. Well actually no.. Its really good but there is another system wich i love same amount. FFIX system and FF Tactics A2 system aka you equip some equipment and get skill from them then you master that skill and you can use the skill without wearing the equipment.

Really simple but awesome system
"

I second this, I mean, FFX is really the only FF except the old retro ones that I really got into. Mainly because the music is beautiful and amazing, but because the gameplay was awesome as well.


Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 17:55 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2008 17:58
@Roxas: Lol, guess we aren't on the same side of the coin completely lol.

I liked playing through FFX. It kept me interested for the most part and was fun. The battle engine was really good, but my only complaint was the need for me to farm for levels sometimes. Any game that I have to take time out of the story to level my character I get bored with really fast. But because it was FF, and my love for that surpasses my impatience, I stuck with it.

The sphere grid is inefficient, annoying, and lacking in flexibility in my opinion. I guess it's still better than the dress sphere system in X2, lol. I really liked XII's License Board.

The characters where done very well, but... I have to admit, they are kinda laughable. I don't know if that was the intention or not, but my friends and have more jokes about X's characters than any other game. Not laughable in the lame sense, but laughable in the sense they stuck and they stuck in sort of a humorous way.

My friends and I thought up so many funny things with X's characters that we actually started brainstorming a comic. We talked about it mostly on the school bus transferring between schools back when we were in high school, and so we decided to name it Ronso on a Bus, lol. We took the characters personality and blew it up further. For instance, my friend and I thought Tidus was a little too... flamboyant, whiny, and exaggerated at times. So during our character intro's (comic #1) we started out with Khimari introducing himself with a "..." bubble (because he doesn't talk very much), then you see him walking behind the other characters in their respective frames. Then finally, when you get to Tidus's intro, Tidus says "HAI, I'm Tidus! I like pina coladas, long walks on beaches, blitzball and Yu-" and then Kimari spears him in the neck. Lmao. Khimari pretty much plays the enthused, not so talkative, needlessly violent person, and is pretty much the star of the comic. He likes injuring Tidus as often as he can.

Another one consisted of humor we found on a deviant art drawing that shows Khimari yelling at Yuna to dress like a high summoner, not a whore.

Another one has tidus and others speculating what is in Aurons bottle he carries around, and why he takes swigs of it every time Tidus talks (in the comic).

Another one has Wakka and Tidus talking about why Auron only uses one hand with his sword. Finally Khimari comes in and tells them it's because he wants to keep his other hand silky smooth... lmao.

It's a shame we never actually got around to the art aspect of it, but we laughed so hard we cried sometimes.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 18:41
Quote: "Well i started playing the XII and after one hour i was like "WTF" and got really bored of the game. All i can say XII was fail even the world was based on ivalice which i kinda like

I dunno why but the game just was too boring and propaply too brown but i really liked FFXII Reveant Wings it was really good stragetic rpg with nice visuals."


I played the PS2 Demo of XII and loved it, though the full game may be different. It's very MMO-style, though (which gets boring).

Quote: "Also i may recommended FFIV but personally i hated it. It was really bad port and seemed like Squenix dint even try to make good game. The III was okey but not so good either. Its propaply just me because i dont like older FF's."


As a serious fan of classic FF's, I have to say that they tried very hard to make it a wonderful port (way better than III, though it was still very good). But, if you don't like the classic games, you won't like it.

Quote: "I second this, I mean, FFX is really the only FF except the old retro ones that I really got into. Mainly because the music is beautiful and amazing, but because the gameplay was awesome as well."


Yeah, it's the only "new" FF that I like (except possibly XII; need to buy it to know). IX has a chance, as it's very retro. Other than that, I-VI were great.

Quote: "I liked playing through FFX. It kept me interested for the most part and was fun. The battle engine was really good, but my only complaint was the need for me to farm for levels sometimes."


I guessed you've never played the classic ones? Lol.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 20:18
Quote: "I played the PS2 Demo of XII and loved it, though the full game may be different. It's very MMO-style, though (which gets boring)."


I'd rather have it MMO style and have the chance to avoid encounters then to have random battles every 10 steps I make like in the older FF games.

Quote: "I guessed you've never played the classic ones? Lol."


No, I have. Same complaint lol. Actually most of them I don't really need to farm at all. If I make sure to not skip 80% of the battles, I usually do okay.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 21:01
Quote: "I'd rather have it MMO style and have the chance to avoid encounters then to have random battles every 10 steps I make like in the older FF games. "


But I like Random Encounters.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 21:13
Why? Why would you want to waste time watching the battle screen camera twirl around the characters and then watch the stat screen after the battle? It takes time away from the story, causes an interruption to the flow of the game, and it happens at the most annoying times... when your trying to get somewhere! Seriously, when ever I'm running some place, there is a random battle every 10-15 steps. How can I get anything done with that! The first thing I did in FF8 was get encounter half and none.

You get the same battle experience and feel with battle engines like FFXII, only the loading and stat screen is gone. Why is that not better?

Sorry if that sounded like a rant... I'm rather annoyed at a few of my friends at the moment and didn't really feel like taking the time to make my above paragraph rid of emotion.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 21:20
Quote: "I'd rather have it MMO style and have the chance to avoid encounters then to have random battles every 10 steps I make like in the older FF games."


I gave up on the earlier FF games for precisely that reason - it was very irritating. Sounds like I ought to take a look at the newer versions.
Alucard94
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Jul 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Posted: 22nd Sep 2008 21:57
It seems as I am like Mahoney, and strangely it seems as though I'm the only one. Very strange, and yes, I do like the random encounters and the tactical battle system.


Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 01:32
Quote: "Why? Why would you want to waste time watching the battle screen camera twirl around the characters and then watch the stat screen after the battle? It takes time away from the story, causes an interruption to the flow of the game, and it happens at the most annoying times... when your trying to get somewhere! Seriously, when ever I'm running some place, there is a random battle every 10-15 steps. How can I get anything done with that! The first thing I did in FF8 was get encounter half and none. "


1) I'm talking about the classic FF's: there is no twirling of the camera and such, just immediate battle. It's even quicker if it's a faster/optimized battle system (FFI: Dawn of Souls?).

2) If you only fought bosses, you'd be losing 4/5 of the game! That's where the fun is!

Quote: "It seems as I am like Mahoney, and strangely it seems as though I'm the only one. Very strange, and yes, I do like the random encounters and the tactical battle system."


I know, right? I suppose that comes with growing up on Dragon Warrior, though.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
General Reed
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2006
Location:
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 13:55
I thought of another mistake developers make over and over, but this one is not just rpg's, it appears to be all games. Some developers get it into their heads, that sheer difficulty is more valueble than interesting and fun gameplay mechanics.

Dont get me wrong, i like a chalange, but when you end up doing the same mission over and over 10 or more times, its just BORING! lol.

Would people agree?

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 15:26
Yeah, I agree. It also detracts from the replay value.

Another one that some developers forget is that no matter how badly you want to tell this amazing storyline, gameplay mechanics and the fun factor are still more important. We have books for good stories. We play games to have fun.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Sasuke
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2005
Location: Milton Keynes UK
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 16:41
I would agree, just look at Assassins Creed great gameplay mechanics, but the mission where carried out the same over and over for the whole game, there no fun in that, and what the hell where they thinking when it can to the big final, real letdown. Still is a good game to jump in and have some fun now and again.

The main issue now is games have developed to fast and have become very complex, so development time increase, more money is invested and making a profit is more important. That’s not an entirely true statement but there truth in it. New game play mechanics are risky, not every developer is willing to bet there 20-50 million budget on a risk, but to go with what works. Valve and Blizzard and possible Bioware are an exception since money is no issue.

But that’s the problem, RPG's weren't given the time to evolve and are stuck in a cycle. But this is also great news for us and the indie scene to produce some brilliant gameplay mechanics. Just look at Portal, though Narbackular (forgot how to spell it) Drop wasn't the first game with portals, Prey was, the original Prey (kind of looks like the first HalfLife) which not many people know about nor have played since it came out very long ago.

My RPG in the making hope to tackle some of these issues. Lots of RPG's have really annoyed me with the lack of innovation when it comes to combat or the setting, why does everything have tokenized feel. Games like Oblivion and Gothic where you can see the enemy a mile off and then it suddenly runs over to you oblivious to the arrow you have aimed at its head, where did this mechanic come from.

This is an Event that happens in my game, but there alot of work still to be done, good read though.
One thing I trying to do is a completely new style of combat with a mix of old stuff. For example, picture a small town, moonlight gazing over, and winter chill in the air. You hear a rumor that a Shadow Walker (SW) is in the area, a SW is a mist creature that attacks people from shadows and pulls them into it to be devoured. It could also be a thief with the ability to moving in the shadows. First things first, do some research, go to the local bar and ask around for info on the SW. They tell you that a number of people have gone missing, so that rules out the thief. Then you need to look at a way of tracking down the SW, so you consult you books to find and article about SW's being blind but are attracted to old folk for the minds. I have a couple of option now, kill an old guy, drag his body into the shadows and wait, or get someone drunk enough to sway them to follow you and telling them to wait in the shadow.

So now comes the question of killing it or capturing it or sealing it, mist entities are hard to come by and are worth alot. You can learn this buy asking priests to show you how to capture or seal them, or guy talking to knights or crusaders that would have come across one. Stuff it, why not just jump in and find out. You sit on top of a near by house, speed burst skill at the ready (make you jump forward very fast). The ground starts to ripple round the dead body I had fun throwing against the wall, and then he gets pulled in to shadow. Now's my chance, I jump straight towards the shadow and swing with my sword only to fall through the shadow. Maybe this wasn't a great idea, still alive though. You now find yourself in a mirror image of the town you where in, light has changed to dark and dark to light, hmm... now what am I going to do?

Sorry if I rambled on abit, but what do you think? That’s one of many events that happen in my game and the same creature might fight differently or might be an ally to you.

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 19:46
Quote: "Lots of RPG's have really annoyed me with the lack of innovation when it comes to combat or the setting, why does everything have tokenized feel."


Many people enjoy that more than over-innovation. That's why I prefer Dragon Quest to Final Fantasy (and the reason Japan goes nuts over DQ games): I love seeing reoccurring elements in the game. But, that's just me.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Alucard94
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Jul 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 19:55 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2008 19:56
Quote: "Many people enjoy that more than over-innovation. That's why I prefer Dragon Quest to Final Fantasy (and the reason Japan goes nuts over DQ games): I love seeing reoccurring elements in the game. But, that's just me.
"

Again, I agree with you on this one, you pretty much summed me up.


Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 20:07
Quote: "Again, I agree with you on this one, you pretty much summed me up."


Finally,

Quote: "Games like Oblivion and Gothic where you can see the enemy a mile off and then it suddenly runs over to you oblivious to the arrow you have aimed at its head, where did this mechanic come from. "


Because it's hard to implement. That's a given.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
General Reed
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2006
Location:
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 20:11
Quote: "Games like Oblivion and Gothic where you can see the enemy a mile off and then it suddenly runs over to you oblivious to the arrow you have aimed at its head, where did this mechanic come from. "


Also in oblivion (never played gothic), why must the player shoot a thousand arrows at most enimies, even tho u get them in the head.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

Sasuke
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2005
Location: Milton Keynes UK
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 20:45
And when you fire and arrow or cast a spell at someone unaware of you location they instantly know where you are, theres no point in stealth.

Mahoney I agree, though I'm a fan of Dargon Quest and the FF series, would like to see some new setting now and again. Also I didn't have any problem implement that into my game, smart or instinctive enermies are aware of what your doing. If I cast a fire wall (not what you think) infront of me a rat shouldn't run straight through it unless it's resistance to heat is high or it can put out fires. Either it would run away, go around or jump over if it can or even attack from a distance (this would be one hell of a rat).

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 23rd Sep 2008 20:48
Now I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying:

Quote: "Games like Oblivion and Gothic where you can see the enemy a mile off and then it suddenly runs over to you oblivious to the arrow you have aimed at its head, where did this mechanic come from. "


Quote: "And when you fire and arrow or cast a spell at someone unaware of you location they instantly know where you are, theres no point in stealth. "


Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Sasuke
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2005
Location: Milton Keynes UK
Posted: 24th Sep 2008 23:34
A mile off is a bit much I think, more like just on the edge of there awareness.

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-20 16:18:49
Your offset time is: 2024-11-20 16:18:49