Quote: "The NES and SNES don't run at anywhere near 100Mhz, the original PSOne, which is way more advanced than the SNES only had a 90Mhz processor."
nes ran @ 8mhz ... snes ran @ 12mhz (11.25) ... PSx/PsOne 33.75Mhz/38Mhz ... N64 90Mhz ... Saturn 33Mhz
Quote: "Yeah, exept for the little problem that 1x Athalon64 1.0ghz is more expensive than dual Itanium2 1.5Ghz Processors."
be interesting how you know this considering the Athlon64 hasn't officially been released yet, and 2 Itainium2 1.5Ghz Processors will set you back around $3,800 ... the Athlon64 is set to hit the market at $800 in Spring 2004 as its the replacement to the AlthonXP series.
also remember the Athlon64 1Ghz is only an experimental model, the real retails will start at 2Ghz - add ontop of this the Itaninium2 Processors have 8Mb of Cache, the Athlon64's only have 512Kb.
anyone who has used a Duron & an Athlon Processor of the same value will understand how much of a different that extra cache will provide as the Duron has 128kb and the Althon has 512kb, at the same speed the Athlon is capable of 20% more calculation speed.
Quote: "Raven, just make the console have some weak 500 mhz intel processor, load up a Linux Kernel OS, and then make it support Allegro for C/C++ and you can get TONS of developers for your console"
Because this would make it far far less powerful than the PS3/XBox2/Dolphin2 ... as this console will need to actually be able to hold its own against these machines with already established titles and fanbases it needs to be something special.
games developers just don't program for Linux, simple reason being it is a BITCH to program for. Add to this only OpenGL & OpenAL are the current game based APi's that are 100% comptible across the board, also a bitch to program with.
Also Allegro?? you've gotta be joking!?! ... i'm sorry but if you think we should push Allegro then hop in your time machine and go back to 1992 when it was a useful engine.
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all of the changes made to the console ARE NOT upto me... i'm not the one developing the console - this is a HARDWARE issue. The hardware developer lets us know things about the consoles development and technicals, but aside from that we don't get much of a say on how it is developed.
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Quote: "But what Raven is suggesting about using the 64 technology is just ludicrous. Consoles will be using that in-- what-- a decade?"
by the end of 2005 64bit games will be the normal on the home PC, although throughout all the boasting from Nintendo and Sony thier RISC processors are still using 32bit registers...
and your right 64bit Console integration is not due until the next incarnation of them, probably not until the XBox3/PS4/GC3 etc...
why does that mean that nVidia have to sit back and let this novel technology goto waste?
i'm sorry but i have a cube demo from LumaBASIC using DirectX which is running on IA-64 and another for x86-32 and IA-32 ... the 32bits run on my GeForceFX this spinning cube at 8,000fps (or there abouts) on the IA-64 it runs at 21,680fps, it uses LESS registers and the 64bit IA has around 320 op codes and a base of 32registers.
the x86-64 processor is capable of DOUBLE that, and that is within a CISC/MISC task environment and setup without RISC optimisations.
the processors power isn't just impressive, its mind blowing considering a 1Ghz version can push 160,000,000 gigaflops - a standard x86 1Ghz processor is only capable 95,000,000
sorry but you add to this with the GeForceFX's 128Bit Colour Arctitechture and 256Bit Generalisation Processing ... 32Bit Zbuffer & 32Bit Floating Point Unit - that with this technology could both be raised to 64Bit.
a matter of 4months ago when the idea was posed i doubt there were ever more interested in this project than just something amusing for the home user market. But since the press release and confirmation that Microsoft's XBox2 will be powered by an ATi card, these guys have been working thier asses of to push thier technology far beyond what the GeForceFX 5900ti is even capable of.
because the FX the GPU's FPU's were running @ 24bit psuedo 32bit - this lost them alot of power and ground on the Radeon equivilants.
you might not understand why anyone would embrase brand new technology for a console but goto
http://www.amd.com and look at the technical specs of the x86-64 technology.
then goto nVidia and take a look at the GeForce & nForce technologies... This might end up as just another PC in a box like the XBox - but as the mandate is to retail the technology on the PC market as well, to allow everyone to benifit and cap R&D losses if any. The technology is there and its gonna be used.
forget about the EmotionEngine2 Processor with its 32bit Core, 256Bit Bus Interface and 128Kb Cache - Because that processor does ALL of the PS3 calculations, the nFinity will have a 64Bit Core, 256Bit FFB and probably a 512Kb Cache, and thats JUST the main processor ... ontop of that you'll have an Audio Processor and a Graphics Processor.
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Quote: "Also the image quality doesn't have to be anywhere near as good. A tv screen will cover up a lot so you can cut corners without effecting the final image that much."
use a PS2 against a GC on a standard TV, alright the image Quality isn't exactly fantastic... take the same consoles and put them HDTVs, trust me you REALLY notice the different.
The PS2 is great for every home, as it is kinda blurred graphics suit cheap TVs - but HDTVs are getting more and more common now, and the GC & XBox are SHARP on them.
Add to this the PS2 doesn't FSAA very well (or fast) ... which can add alot of depth and even make things stand out better. Something the other consoles don't have even the slightest problem doing.
not to mention all Current consoles are compatible with XGA/DVi monitors - which oftenly is cheaper than buying a TV just for your console. $100 gets your a nice 17" Monitor capable of 1260x1024, or it'll get you a 14" RF Tv (which would you pick?)
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ya'll seem to really be living in the past as far as consoles go, its nice to remanise - but if the nFinity was made similar to an XBox, what chance would it have in the market place?
How could we push the boundries of game development?
7th Day Project is probably the main stream game set for this console, and it is also the only one currently in development of its ilk.
The pure depth of the Ai along would kill most computer without a 2Ghz processor, perhaps common now - but for a console the heat would be TOO much, then you have the Graphics engine using Shaders like there's not tommorrow which also slows a common PC down.
infact much current pre-alpha runs at 60fps on an AthlonXP 2400+ w/1Gb DDR2 w/GeForceFX 5800 ... which is far from heatfree.
but on my Athlon64 1.1Ghz w/512Mb DDR2 w/GeForceFx 5900ti runs at around 110fps.
and i've not even rewritten the engine to run on 64bit processor extensions yet!
if the tests are any indication to go on i can up my polycount per scene from 1,500,000 to almost 2,800,000 and get the exact same speed... or put FSAA 8x on and get the exact same speed!
considering TV outputs accept between 25-30fps, this means i'll have almost 60fps to play with because of 2frame comparison blurring (to add realism)
we add this with my new GeoMesh routines which have allowed me to Quariple the polygon count already because it adds depth to the mesh based on camera distance and visual depth.
i mean the possibilities that would open up to this, and forget these bland game engines your used to, with over empashised shadows and lighting calculated basically and per vertex on mesh of only 3,000 polygons.
you're talking mesh here of 8,000 polygons for a standard onscreen model, enough power to multipass the lighting (Luma does it, Shadow->GiLight->ArtificialLight->Post Effects ... within each model is a multipass for each effect, PerPixel->Shadow;Light - - Bump->Shadow,Light - - Effects->Shadow;Caustic;Light) everything has a material shader boundry. The pure realism is close to a rendering engine in RealTime! ... even better in some cases because you can depict sweat as a Shader Surface which is processed by the Effects, so each bead of sweat contributes small light sources.
There are Air routines now which use a simple Chaos equasion to my MicroParticle system, this controls Dust/Volumetrics/NIL (non intelligent life) and other such things...
there is just so much depth added with the extra processing suchas Weighted Bones & Muscle adaptive mesh, you think you've seen some amazing animation so far from HL2 and such ... Facial animations have weighted muscles (oki not as many as a real living thing but enough) to produce some realistic effects. When someone talks the mucles might do something generic, but the weighting means it is always effected by the dynamic engines soft bodies ... so it gives rise to subtle differences, especially as the bones are rigid bodies, muscles are dense bodies and the skin is soft.
So when someone blinks, only the eyelid is animated with a muscle strength ... but it affects the vertex in the area.
Everything within the physics engine has an AREA-OF-AFFECT, which is a very simple way for me to have kept the calculations in a Node-Tree memory model, allows it to ONLY affect faces within a given weighted distance.
But with the combined GeoMesh and Dynamics, when someone strokes thier chin it leaves a ripple wave of where the skin is being pushed in... this is based on visual range really because if the LOD doesn't break down the mesh enough then its not worth showing it, but the shadow effect at a distances gives the same impression.
but my point isn't to explain how 7th Day Project... but how all of the effects i've achieved so far, just are something which are pushing current technology well beyond its limits. It gives the user such and immersive environment and with the extra technology it is just the begining of what technology can push.
The new dynamics skeletal movement routines are something which are just mind blowing, you run towards a car then jump on the bonnet and immediatly jump backwards - the moment will throw you backwards, and quite spectacularly... unfortunately i've not figured out a way to do it without hear "CRACK" as my shins and knee caps break with the reaction force. But that just adds to what the game is about.
Localised damage suchas Bullet shots to the arm, actually affect performances because it takes down the values of that arm. Muscle & Bone alike.
To the point where it could be useless, although you can still do risky stunts like jump off a catwalk and grab onto a beam with both arms - if you put TOO much pressure there is a random chance you arm could give and you fall say 20ft to the floor of a warehouse.
using the animation and controls to perform the hand2hand combat is also something that will just be mind blowing to alow of people.
if i was using convential methods and technology, i'd only be able to have around 1/4 of the features i wanted in this game ... the pure atmosphere they all bring is just something that is indescribable. The decal system alone pushes things to what you'd think were possible allowing cars to have some very very realisic damage effects, for people to get scares, blood to be splattered and then become part of the games atmosphere.
if there was one thing i would want to be proud of in the game it would be the dynamics without a double... i mean watching the animation, clothes reacting with the peoples movement without prescripting, have people run and then watch them try to save themselves as they're shot in the leg and fall forward.
Some things are just priceless, and would just never be without the technology.
64bit will redefine games development, i can guarentee you!
7th Day Project probably will never be a popular title, but it will be a technically definitive one. And its going to be one hell of a story that will hopefully just encompass those fans of the game itself
