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Geek Culture / jack thompson disbarred.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 17:59 Edited at: 28th Sep 2008 18:01
I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet!

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/09/26/controversial-florida-attorney-jack-thompson-disbarred/


It's not just for BYOND you know!
RalphY
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 18:04
Heheh happy times .

Oh boy! Sleep! That's when I'm a Viking! | Super Nintendo Chalmers!
IanM
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 21:28 Edited at: 28th Sep 2008 21:29
The funniest part is that although he's no longer a lawyer and requires a lawyer of good standing to represent him in any stay or appeal, he seems to think that that rule doesn't apply to him and has appealed.

Ah, the world according to Jack - what a pink and fluffy place it must be.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 21:32
The drinks are on me!

ionstream
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 21:34
But where will webcomics get their free, filler jokes? They might actually have to write content now!

Alucard94
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 21:44
Here have a on me!


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Jeku
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 22:49 Edited at: 28th Sep 2008 22:50
I actually agree with a lot of his views. People *should* be carded to buy a mature rated game, much like you're carded for purchasing alcohol and cigarettes.

That being said he took it several steps further and tried to get the CEO of Take 2 arrested, called violent games "murder simulators", sent several threatening letters to game journalists, and started frivolous lawsuits against game companies based solely on the titles of their products (he wanted to ban Bully, for example, because he told the courts it is a bully simulator, before it was even out).


tha_rami
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 22:59
Quote: "I actually agree with a lot of his views. People *should* be carded to buy a mature rated game, much like you're carded for purchasing alcohol and cigarettes. "

I actually agree with that too.


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Deathead
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 23:25
Quote: "I actually agree with a lot of his views. People *should* be carded to buy a mature rated game, much like you're carded for purchasing alcohol and cigarettes. "

You still get people over the age limit who still commit evil deeds and blame it on Video games so really, a game is only mature if the person who plays it is mature enough to handle it.


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-Butterfingers
tha_rami
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 23:34
Quote: "You still get people over the age limit who still commit evil deeds and blame it on Video games so really, a game is only mature if the person who plays it is mature enough to handle it."

So what? There's an general age for which things can be considered reasonably safe. Requiring people to identify themselves is not a bad thing - its a great thing.


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Deathead
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Posted: 28th Sep 2008 23:37
Quote: "So what? There's an general age for which things can be considered reasonably safe. Requiring people to identify themselves is not a bad thing - its a great thing."

Still, what will happen afterwards, Parents or someone will be going in with their game-id and buy them for the younger kids. You can't stop people from getting games over the age limit, there is always a way.


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-Butterfingers
bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 00:33 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 00:33
Quote: "So what? There's an general age for which things can be considered reasonably safe. Requiring people to identify themselves is not a bad thing - its a great thing."


I would hardly consider that a great thing. It's none of anybodys business who I am or how old I am when I'm going to buy your game. Nor are games even remotely as harmful as alcohol and tobacco. What a weak argument >.<

I'm willing to show my ID when I buy alcohol and tobacco, just because I do know it's harmful to minors and addictive. When I buy a video game, it's absolutely a disgrace that I'm carded.

Then there's the argument about 12 year olds going into a porn shop or something. What ever happened to being a responsible adult and telling these preteen customers to gtfo? Or being a responsible parent and keeping tabs on what your kid buys and where he goes. Seriously, if you look old enough to buy porn and video games and you actually want to, I don't see wtf the problem is, as if it's going to corrupt anybody.


It's not just for BYOND you know!
draknir_
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 01:12
The one and only time I tried to buy an M-rated game and got carded was in the USA is when I was going to buy Hidden & Dangerous 2. I wasn't 17, so the pasty faced clerk (who barely looked 17 himself) said I couldn't buy it. I stepped out of the shop, grabbed my pops, asked him to look at the game. He seemed fine with it and bought it for me. The clerk went all red in the face and mumbled something along the lines of "Well... only you can play the game then, sir." to my dad. Great memories

I don't know why that particular shop carded me, it may have been store policy or whatnot, but I don't think it would really make a difference in keeping M rated games out of kids hands. If I didn't get the game there, I would have asked an older friend, or heaven forbid, downloaded it.
Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 01:20
I dunno. If a 10-year-old kid tries to buy a game which is chock-full of rape and murder then clearly that's bad. If a responsible 18-year-old buys it then all's well.

I think it's got to be up to the parents, eventually. And if the kid manages to get one up on the parents then, well, he wins. If he wants to play it that badly, maybe you should let him.

Anyway, back on topic: serves him right!

I don't mind his "I'm trying to fix the world" stance: I just think he's chronically misguided. I wouldn't be surprised if he started criticising donkeys (or any other animal, vegetable or mineral) just because they're the latest perceived evil of the age. (Not that donkeys are, of course. That was the first thing that popped into my head.)

bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 01:29
Quote: "Well... only you can play the game then, sir."


Lol, I would have punched that kid right in the face if I was your father, or at least told him to raise his children how he wants, and I'll raise mine how I want

Quote: "I don't mind his "I'm trying to fix the world" stance: I just think he's chronically misguided."


No. He is a bully and finds power in harassing responsible, paying customers.

Quote: "I dunno. If a 10-year-old kid tries to buy a game which is chock-full of rape and murder then clearly that's bad. If a responsible 18-year-old buys it then all's well."


And that's where store policy I think would be fine to enforce. I wouldn't hesitate to tell a kid to gtfo if he was trying to buy pr0n.

The fact that the kid talked back at you (draknir_) when you were ok'd by an adult is pretty ridiculous.


It's not just for BYOND you know!
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 05:03
Quote: "Well... only you can play the game then, sir.""

I actually don't believe you because that's not how it works. An adult can buy the game for someone under 17. The kid just has to have approval that he can play. Sooooo, I'm going to have to say, that didn't happen. Lol.


Insanity Complex
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 05:44
Quote: "I actually don't believe you because that's not how it works. An adult can buy the game for someone under 17. The kid just has to have approval that he can play. Sooooo, I'm going to have to say, that didn't happen. Lol."


Nothing says that the store clerk was aware of this. Don't underestimate human stupidity


RedneckRambo
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 05:57
Quote: "Nothing says that the store clerk was aware of this. Don't underestimate human stupidity"

The store clerk would've been told how it works. Unless of course where he went to in the US has different laws then they do here in California.


Insanity Complex
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 06:16
Quote: "The store clerk would've been told how it works. Unless of course where he went to in the US has different laws then they do here in California."


You apparently haven't interacted with quite the levels of stupidity/blatant ignorance that I seem to have come across. Some people just don't think


Osiris
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 08:22
Serves him right, sending threats to someones mom...

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You will be dearly missed.
Jeku
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 09:44
Quote: "Still, what will happen afterwards, Parents or someone will be going in with their game-id and buy them for the younger kids. You can't stop people from getting games over the age limit, there is always a way."


So what's the alternative--- let anyone buy anything (porn, guns, violent media, etc.) just because they can get it from their older friends anyway? Poppycock.

And someone can steal their parent's car and drive it into a campground, killing a half dozen people. Doesn't mean they shouldn't have an age limit to get a driver's license


Zombie 20
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 09:56
Well that's that, guy never bugged me that much.

As for being carded I smirk at the thought, I gladly hand it over when I'm buying a game and in fact it makes me feel very comfortable. At least now I KNOW for sure that a 10 year old cannot buy gta in my area, not even if a parent comes in, honestly how stupid do you think that is? 10 year old standing next to a parent, who do you think wants the game?? No sale and for good reason, GTA IV is the most recent entry and as such why I'm using it as an example, not meant for that age bracket, not even for the violence but just for content. What you do would never at least to me appeal to a 10 -12 year old. *Shrugs* Oh well, I'm happy to be carded, responsibility needs to be taken sometime.


Coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee coffee cappacino, JAVA!
Errant AI
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 11:29 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 11:36
Quote: "So what's the alternative--- let anyone buy anything (porn, guns, violent media, etc.) just because they can get it from their older friends anyway? Poppycock."


The alternative is accountability for ones actions and not blaming some arbitrary thing on why someone screws up.

IMO, a big part of the problem is that there are so many stupid laws meant to drum up revenue that justice systems become ill-effective to properly punish real crimes and have real criminal serve full sentences if imprisoned. There also need to be harsher deterrents for some crimes which truly put human life or liberty at risk.

Examples: If you cause anyone except yourself bodily injury while behind the wheel drunk you should never be allowed behind the wheel again for as long as you live. Likewise if you have a negligent discharge with a firearm resulting in injury of another you should have your rights to that revoked forever as well. But up until that have all the machine guns and rocket launchers you want. Rape someone and it's chemical castration for you. The only loophole being that if the victim/victim's family want't to forgive the criminal they can keep their rights.

I've never needed a nanny state to tell me what I can and can't have and I surely don't like to have my taxes pay for it either. When I was too young to know better, my parents were the ones who laid down the law, as it ought to be. If the parents are totally letting their kids run wild then they should be the ones held accountable. I do think there should be some sort of community standard to determine the threshold of when an individual can be conscious of their decisions and their repercussions so that places aren't selling vice and SUVs to five year olds and it easier to draw a line where parental accountability ends and personal accountability begins but really that's it.

just my .02
JoelJ
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 11:35
Quote: "Still, what will happen afterwards, Parents or someone will be going in with their game-id and buy them for the younger kids. You can't stop people from getting games over the age limit, there is always a way."

I think one of the problems is that when a child does something REALLY stupid (school shooting for example), the lawyers try to save them as much as possible so they say, "blame the video games!". Parents say they didn't know that their kid was playing a violent game, or whatever. Then the game company gets busted for it, or games in general. I think IDing kids is a great idea because of this. Now parents are held accountable for what their kids are doing. They say they don't know their kids had that, then either the kid broke the law to get it or their parents bought it for them (or another adult), so now it's THEIR problem.
And it's added protection. Like Jeku said, we don't just let our kids go out and buy porn or alcohol or anything like that. Why? To protect them from it until their old enough to be responsible. Not everyone is responsible about it, but it does control problems better.


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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 11:44
Quote: "just my .02 "


Well said.

BatVink
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 12:47 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 12:48
Quote: "or at least told him to raise his children how he wants, and I'll raise mine how I want"


That's exactly the point. If I sell your child an 18-rated game, then I'm raising your child how I want. Do you want me to introduce him to heroin and crack cocaine too? Only the parents of a child have the knowledge on whether they are well-rounded enough to play a particular game.

Quote: "So what's the alternative--- let anyone buy anything (porn, guns, violent media, etc.) just because they can get it from their older friends anyway? Poppycock."


Poppycock indeed

FredP
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 13:22
Jack Thompson disbarred...
Don't wake me if I'm dreaming.I have hated this lunatic for years.
I think he's tried to ban every game created in the last few years.
I don't think he's mentally balanced.
Now that he doesn't have a practice he can go back to where he came from...his village needs their idiot back.
This is the best news I have gotten in a long time.
Now if they can just remove his vocal cords...

Failing at every guitar game ever made!
Errant AI
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 13:33 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 13:47
Quote: "Only the parents of a child have the knowledge on whether they are well-rounded enough to play a particular game."


Exactly true.

Quote: "If I sell your child an 18-rated game, then I'm raising your child how I want. Do you want me to introduce him to heroin and crack cocaine too?"


I don't get that at all.

If I'm the parent of that child and told them not to buy 18+ games and there they are shopping for them, that's my failure in parenting to teach them the value of respecting my wishes. It's all about what values the child has received from their parents. If I'm the shopkeeper, how am I to know if you, the parent are OK with video game human violence or nudity but totally against any sort of depiction harm towards animals and thinks super mario brothers or deer hunter is deplorable.

The shopkeeper only influences the child for a moment but the parent has much, much, much more influence over their decisions. Same applies with the drug dealer. For community members with kids, how does it make you feel, as a parent, when your child makes the right decision based on the values you've instilled in them. I don't know myself but I imagine it must feel fantastic.

That said, if a store wants a policy not to sell certain rated games or bar entrance altogether to individuals based on age, that's totally their prerogative and the communities in which they operate may indeed be grateful but that should be the store owners decision not the governments.
BatVink
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 14:33
Quote: "If I'm the parent of that child and told them not to buy 18+ games and there they are shopping for them, that's my failure in parenting to teach them the value of respecting my wishes"


Not necessarily - parenting lasts 18 years, you can't teach a child everything over one dinner. You can tell a 10-year old child that buying 18+ games is not allowed, but until the reasoning behind this gets embedded and forms part of their moral stance, it will still be a temptation. It is the job of a shop assistant to form a barrier between temptation and action, the shop assistant being completely oblivious to where that child is in their upbringing. Otherwise, we can replace the assistant with a vending machine, as he serves no purpose.

Quote: "Lol, I would have punched that kid right in the face if I was your father"

The only place I see those actions on a regular basis is in films and games Although I'm sure your child would learn so much about dealing with life in general from that approach - he wouldn't need to pick it up from a game.

El Goorf
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 14:39
so wheres yogi phil-bear these days? jacks gonna need a replacement.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 14:40
Quote: "The funniest part is that although he's no longer a lawyer and requires a lawyer of good standing to represent him in any stay or appeal, he seems to think that that rule doesn't apply to him and has appealed."

You don't have to be a lawyer to represent yourself in court, just a lunatic.

Good riddance. Whatever positive points his views hold he destroys them with his overactive egoism.


Come see the WIP!
Errant AI
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 14:59 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 15:01
Quote: "Not necessarily - parenting lasts 18 years, you can't teach a child everything over one dinner. "


I hope you've had more than one dinner before letting your kid roam around unnatended

I've known kids 15-16 who were basically raising themselves because their parents were failures and were more adult than a lot of people twice their age. I also found, on average, when in college the kids that grew up without a lot of taboos tended to be well adjusted but the overly protected ones end up the binge drinkers and burnouts.

Quote: "It is the job of a shop assistant to form a barrier between temptation and action"


Is that in the employee handbook?

Sorry If I seem combative. I just am intrigued by viewpoints from different social communities.
BatVink
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 15:10 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 15:11
Quote: "I've known kids 15-16 who were basically raising themselves because their parents were failures and were more adult than a lot of people twice their age. I also found, on average, when in college the kids that grew up without a lot of taboos tended to be well adjusted but the overly protected ones end up the binge drinkers and burnouts."


I agree 100%. But the shop assistant doesn't know that.

Quote: ""It is the job of a shop assistant to form a barrier between temptation and action"

Is that in the employee handbook?"


No, it's the law After all, the law simply stops people who are tempted to do something that society has deemed to be taboo from actually doing it (or at least repeatedy doing it.) When you take on a role of responsibility you must act within the law when performing that duty. So irrespective of whether you agree or disagree with rating systems, you have to enforce them when selling the goods.

I guess that's why I dismiss the thoughts of anyone who thinks punching someone (illegally) for upholding the law is a solution.

Quote: "Sorry If I seem combative. I just am intrigued by viewpoints from different social communities"

Healthy debate is good.

Errant AI
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 15:25
Quote: "No, it's the law After all, the law simply stops people who are tempted to do something that society has deemed to be taboo from actually doing it (or at least repeatedy doing it.) When you take on a role of responsibility you must act within the law when performing that duty. So irrespective of whether you agree or disagree with rating systems, you have to enforce them when selling the goods.

I guess that's why I dismiss the thoughts of anyone who thinks punching somemone (illegally) for upholding the law is a solution."


OK, well that's the part I missed then as in some places this kind of thing used to just be an advisory. Sans shopkeeper, my other views still stand

I agree assault is not the answer in that situation. Unless they are already a sociopath, someone with such inclinations should, IMO, play more violent games to work it out of their systems so they can deal with real humans in a more civil manner
IanM
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 15:58 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 16:10
@Cash,
Normally, that's the case. However, because of the reasons behind his disbarment (i.e. his lack of professional behaviour), that's one of the sanctions the court has decided on.

http://kotaku.com/5054772/jack-thompson-disbarred
Quote: "Note that Thompson still has a chance for a retrial, only due to court sanctions the motion must be submitted by a member of the Florida Bar in good standing,"


[EDIT]
It's just clicked why he raised the appeal himself - he can use the rejection of his appeal as news-fodder in his continuing agenda of showing he's being conspired against.

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 17:58 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 17:59
Since it's semi related, I would like to tell you that it is a scientific fact that playing violent video games produces a very, very similar brain activity as doing something violent in real life.

I was watching a program on TV last night about "The Gamer Generation." Part of it's segment was about the effects of gaming, kids dying in south Korea because they play too much, and also the violence aspect. Jack Thompson was on there as well, but I didn't really listen. I think he's too gung ho and a bit loony.

But regardless of Jack Thompson, just thought I'd let you know that they've done MRI's (I think that's what they are) to prove that the brain activity is very similar. EDIT: The guy who actually did all these MRI's was out to actually prove that it had no affect, but he was very surprised to learn otherwise.

I don't mind violent video games too much. The only games I have beef with are pretty much any rockstar made game. Partly because I just dislike the company and think their games suck. Postal was too satirical, not going to go there.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
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bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 18:20
Quote: "I guess that's why I dismiss the thoughts of anyone who thinks punching someone (illegally) for upholding the law is a solution."


Hey, I didn't say I would punch him for upholding the law. If my son told me he couldn't buy gta at the store I'd be like, "newb".

But if I were to go in the store and a shop clerk told me what I can and cannot let my son play, I'd (have a strong urge to) punch him in the face


It's not just for BYOND you know!
bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 18:23 Edited at: 29th Sep 2008 18:26
Quote: "EDIT: The guy who actually did all these MRI's was out to actually prove that it had no affect, but he was very surprised to learn otherwise."


Yes, games do have an effect on children. (They haven't affected me as an adult.) But it's not the content of the game, it's just the way kids behave after playing *any* game. You can't let a kid play all-day binges too often, or they will misbehave. Get too hyper or just act grumpy

It's like bottled up frustration, when I was a kid, I released it after a long gaming session

But I never took guns and shot anyone, never crossed my mind. Worst I got was roughhousing with my siblings. And I was the epitome of a gamer. I could play all day every day


It's not just for BYOND you know!
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 19:17
Yeah. Another person interviewed said that a lot of the time people can distinguish between reality and play, but that line becomes very blurry in children as they develop and also in some already unstable adults.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 20:47
Quote: "Yeah. Another person interviewed said that a lot of the time people can distinguish between reality and play, but that line becomes very blurry in children as they develop and also in some already unstable adults."


Well, for me, there was never any blurred reality. Just got overactive and/or grumpy after playing games for extended period of time.


It's not just for BYOND you know!
draknir_
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Posted: 29th Sep 2008 22:13
@Jenkins: You can believe whatever you like, that's what happened. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I remember exactly the manner in which he said it and what he meant by it.
RedneckRambo
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 01:06
Quote: "@Jenkins: You can believe whatever you like, that's what happened. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I remember exactly the manner in which he said it and what he meant by it."

I understand what you mean, but I just highly doubt, those were the words he said. As you have stated, you don't remember exactly what he said. I do believe this little "event" did happen, but it's his exact response that I don't believe lol. I do believe you that he was all pissed off about it though. Sorry I didn't make that clear at all lol.


Slayer222
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 01:59
Quote: "I actually don't believe you because that's not how it works. An adult can buy the game for someone under 17. The kid just has to have approval that he can play. Sooooo, I'm going to have to say, that didn't happen. Lol."
Actually, I believe it, here in Canada, ratings aren't enforced by law, but EB games has this lame policy which made me ditch them until next year when I become 17. Onto my story: I went into Zellers to get Brothers in Arms. Then I saw SoF: Payback on the way out and decided to see if it was as bad as people said (it is and I'm a huge FPS fan). The clerk ID-ed me. This makes no sense as both games are M, but anyhow, I left and came back a while later, the same clerk was there, I got SoF: Payback and found out what a waste of 10 bucks it was. But that's not the point. The point is the jerk probably chose to ID me just cause I tried to make 2 purchases separately. I only wish I was 17 and had my ID to rub in his face.

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RedneckRambo
18
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Joined: 19th Oct 2006
Location: Worst state in USA... California
Posted: 30th Sep 2008 02:08
Quote: "Actually, I believe it, here in Canada, ratings aren't enforced by law, but EB games has this lame policy which made me ditch them until next year when I become 17. Onto my story: I went into Zellers to get Brothers in Arms. Then I saw SoF: Payback on the way out and decided to see if it was as bad as people said (it is and I'm a huge FPS fan). The clerk ID-ed me. This makes no sense as both games are M, but anyhow, I left and came back a while later, the same clerk was there, I got SoF: Payback and found out what a waste of 10 bucks it was. But that's not the point. The point is the jerk probably chose to ID me just cause I tried to make 2 purchases separately. I only wish I was 17 and had my ID to rub in his face."


Quote: "I understand what you mean, but I just highly doubt, those were the words he said. As you have stated, you don't remember exactly what he said. I do believe this little "event" did happen, but it's his exact response that I don't believe lol. I do believe you that he was all pissed off about it though. Sorry I didn't make that clear at all lol."



Slayer222
17
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Joined: 19th Mar 2007
Location: Wherever I feel like
Posted: 30th Sep 2008 03:23
As stated before by someone else, think what you will

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