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Geek Culture / Teaching Myself to Play Piano

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Sasuke
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 16:40
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Hi guys, I'am starting to teach myself to play piano, it always be a childhod dream, never had the money though, but recently my nan gave me and old (more like ancient) electric keyboard, everything is sastained, there no touch sensitivity. So the quest has begun.

I've taught myself how to read music, though can't play straight from looking at it, have to analise the sheet music first and sometimes write the notes. I can play a few bits and pieces, I can play FFX's To Zanarkand well, though the keyboard doesn't have enough keys to finish the song. FF7 Main Theme (kind of), FF8's Blue Hills (ok), KH2 Roxas theme and Fate of the Unknown (that KH3 or Birth by Sleep CG vid theme, still lack or keys problem), trying to get ahold of Diablo Tristram Theme sheet music, also Moonlight Sonata has been one of my fav's.

So what should I do next, it takes me awhile just to get through one songs, also that keyboard is crap, don't know much about keyboards though also don't have a ton of money to spend. Need to work on spitting my hands, had a look at that Sonic Greenhill Zone song, man thats hard, I play it really slow and my hand sometimes end up doing the same thing. I don't know many practices or exercises, I looked on the net and at books but they didn't help much. Any Ideas for a budding pianist?

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 16:44 Edited at: 30th Sep 2008 16:45
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Lessons?

There is bound to be some old boot dying to teach youngins' Piano skills in your local area for six pence.

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Sasuke
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 16:56
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Nope, there all quite expensive, plus I move around alot, btw i'm 22 years old and believe me when I say I could never buy one until now. Had to pay rent since I was 16 and every year it went up, saved most of money towards a computer and studies. Money in my hands is rare these days. All studies have stopped now, taking a year off, well need to earn more money for Uni.

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
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Sven B
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 20:26
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Here's a tip from a fellow pianist:
- Work on reading music!

It's probably the most crucial thing when improving on the piano. If you're comfortable with music bars, and can read them like you read books, then you'll definately learn new music scores in half the time you do now.
Ofcourse, this applies to both G and F clefs.

There's one more step after this that you might consider, and that is doing the same with the piano keys. As you read a note, you should be able to find the key on the piano without thinking. Like when you see a G, you should know where the key is before you even blinked.
This can be improved, but is especially useful when playing on first sight (actually you'll need to be able to read 2 bars ahead to pull this off).

- Don't rush it

Learning the piano doesn't come by playing a day. Start with easy scores. Okay, you'll probably be able to do it, but you have to give your brains the time to handle left and right hand seperately.
As you said, usually your hands end up doing the same: it means you'll have to train more in this area, but not necessarely with a harder piece.

- Play classics

I know: "Yew, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart... it's all boring"
Might be so (though I could argue with you for that) but it is also the best training you can get.
I should especially advice Bach, it will really teach you what playing the piano is all about. But Bach also comes with some advice: Don't mess up your finger positions! You can "improvise" a bit when playing popular songs as they're (usually) not so hard, but when playing classical music, you should keep this to an absolute minimum. You shouldn't improvise with finger positions when playing harder pieces.

There are also other tips I could always give you, but most of them are quite obvious: Start slow on hard passages, work with a metronome, ...

And here's one last tip:
Hire a teacher! Even if you say you can't, you should keep looking. If there's someone that can help you to improve, it's a teacher. He/she can give you advice that helps only you the most. A good teacher also has a huge stack of piano sheet music to help your progress.

Best of luck in either case,
Sven B

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
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AndrewT
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 21:48
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I've been taking piano lessons since I was 5, so I'll see if I can offer any advice that Sven B hasn't already mentioned.

-Practice your technique and theory daily.

Make sure you work on scales and keyboard harmony daily. Start easy, like doing one-octave C, G, and D scales, then work your way up until your playing four-octave scales in every key at 160bpm. As for keyboard harmony, if somebody tells you to play a major 7 chord in the key of C, you should be able to do it. If somebody tells you to play an augmented chord in root position in the key of F, you should know what he's talking about. Start basic, like learning the 1, 4, and 5 chords of every key starting with C, then move on to the more advanced stuff.

-Baroque/Classical/Romantic Music Helps!

Just like Sven B said, you should practice classical music no matter how boring it is. The technique you learn from Mozart, Chopin, Bach, Liszt, etc. will help tremendously in everything else you play.

Hope that helps.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 22:44
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Sasuke, I started learning on a crap keyboard. I upgraded to a Yamaha PSR 290 second hand from ebay, which has touch sensitivity, a pedal socket and sounds quite nice too. The reason it is cheap is because its an older model now, but it still took my ability to new levels.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YAMAHA-PSR-290-ELECTRONIC-KEYBOARD_W0QQitemZ300262382025QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300262382025&_trkparms=72%3A1301|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


This is the one! £30 is a real bargain if you can pick it up

TheSturgeon(playing me at chess) : I will use my powers of the horse and pwnzor you.
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Inspire
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 23:13
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Funny you say it, I learned how to play" To Zanarkand" last night. That's such a fun song.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Sep 2008 23:53 Edited at: 30th Sep 2008 23:57
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Ideally you should get a keyboard with weighted keys, though they aren't exactly cheap, even second-hand. Playing on a standard keyboard may hamper your technique, although that's not to say it'll stop you from becoming proficient.

Practice hands separately and slowly. Once you can play both hands (separately) at regular speed, practice both together slowly and build up. That's the only advice I can give about that really. Over time it becomes easier to play with both hands, just like it becomes natural to use the sustain pedal.

The fingering is mostly common sense, although it may be useful to get advice on parts you're not sure how to play. Knowing the correct fingering of scales helps. Again over time it'll become natural to know how to finger a particular series of notes without thinking.

If you're aiming to be a very correct technician then learning classical is the way to go, although it's not necessary for becoming proficient.

As for reading music, practice practice practice. It's best to use simple exercises to help you memorize where the notes are on the staff. Try to think of chords as patterns.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 00:11
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I have a keyboard with no sound hardware that just goes into a USB socket. It supports sustain switches and pressure sensitivity, and is a full size keyboard rather than the generic piddly one or two octaves most keyboards of this type provide. Once set up with the Fruity Loops Demo, I can use pretty much any sound I want. It cost next to nothing because it's worth facing that it contains next to nothing.

And if the sounds you get aren't good enough, you just download some more.

Should I continue coding or focus on my art? Vote here:
http://www.polldaddy.com/p/953461/
NeX, the creator of a billion failed projects.
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Sasuke
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 00:26 Edited at: 1st Oct 2008 00:31
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Wow, thanks everyone for the great advice. It's funny, my nan is actually a semi professional pianist, the reason I never mentioned it before is she's in hospital, and has been for some time. Even though I usually go for game music, I love classical music aswell and have access to a massive library of sheet music thank to my nan. She even has a stack of beginners books for when she use't to teach before she fell ill, she just went through a operation and is in recovery now which is great. Hiring a teacher would be difficult due to me moving around all the time, my sport. Hmm... Wonder if I could make a free day... well until my nans better, she would love to teach me.

As for a new keyboard, I'm only looking 4 one that's basically a piano replacement, I don't need all these sounds, voices and etc, just weighted keys, a port to plug in a sustain pedal and it has to sound near enough like a piano. I search around to see what I can find.

I can still do those exercises you guys said on the old keyboard minus the first note, had to tape it down, for some reason when its not, every note is combined with the bottom note, strange?

Ever since watching Shine (great movie), I've wanted to play piano, and theres some insane pieces played in that movie.

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
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Sasuke
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 00:37
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One more thing, I can play ok when reading the sheet music, but as soon as it goes out of the lines I'm lost, takes me awhile to work it out. Forgetting which line is a flat or sharp is a pain also.

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 00:44
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Yea, as Benjamin says, weighted keys are nice, and this is the one feature that you are after which the PSR 290 does not have.

TheSturgeon(playing me at chess) : I will use my powers of the horse and pwnzor you.
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Sasuke
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 00:59
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You wouldn't believe what I found, a full piano for £10. I'll have to pass though cuase I don't have the space.

Check it out:
http://www.gumtree.com/london/85/29203185.html

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
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Inspire
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 02:07 Edited at: 1st Oct 2008 02:35
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That's crazy.

I also experienced some dude totally shredding on the piano today. It was great.

What are weighted keys?

EDIT:

OMG, check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQzRAaXxjek

I really want to learn how to play Hikari and Hallow Bastion from Kingdom Hearts, but I can't find any sheet music.
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 09:39 Edited at: 1st Oct 2008 09:51
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Quote: "OMG, check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQzRAaXxjek"


DANG IT. I was SO going to post that. YAR!

So I'll post part two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK4YB_mCrfw&feature=related

Actually, there are is one more that I really love to watch and listen to.

AMAZING Kingdom Hearts II - Utada Hikaru - PASSION (piano cover)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-neZL4_O6sQ

And here's the song that will make any gamer bust out crying on command. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya9aIYzhWTM

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
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PowerSoft
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 13:44
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Quote: "
- Play classics

I know: "Yew, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart... it's all boring"
Might be so (though I could argue with you for that) but it is also the best training you can get.
I should especially advice Bach, it will really teach you what playing the piano is all about. But Bach also comes with some advice: Don't mess up your finger positions! You can "improvise" a bit when playing popular songs as they're (usually) not so hard, but when playing classical music, you should keep this to an absolute minimum. You shouldn't improvise with finger positions when playing harder pieces.
"


I couldn't disagree more. If you want to learn to play the piano play music you want to play. For me I played chart sngs etc at first. It was simple and sounded crap but at the end of the day I enjoyed playing it.

As you play more and more pieces you like you find that playing the piano become more enjoyable and your skills improve rapidly. The most important thing I think though is don't say "I'm going to learn song X" and just play that until you can play it. Play as many different pieces as you can to get experience of different pieces. They don't have to be had but the more variation the more flexible you become.

As you start to get better then you can pick up the classical stuff or in actual fact I'd recommend Elton John or some Ludovico Einaudi. "Le Onde" is fairly simple but pieces like "Questa Notte" are more advanced and give you a nice range.

Again it is personal preferance but I found this worked for me. Don't try to like the piano, make the piano get into you. The more you play the more you'll pick up the bug.


What Benjamin said is very true, weighted keys are vital and pedals will be extra beneficial. My advice is to learn to read music, and especially timing and rhythm (how many videos on the 'tube are badly timed!) and I advise you not to learn from Youtube, most of the people on there are about 11 years old and wouldn't know timing if a clock bit them on the arse... and it makes you lazy.


Oh and a final thing, try to play with two hands from the very start, and when I say that no cheating and using two hands to play one hand....


Rich

The Innuendo's, 4 Piece Indie Rock Band
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Benjamin
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 14:37
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Quote: "OMG, check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQzRAaXxjek"

He needs to learn proper hand posture and lay off the sustain.

Multisync - TCP Server/Client Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe)
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Inspire
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Posted: 1st Oct 2008 22:37
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You cannot deny that that is awesome though (I agree about those things though).
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AndrewT
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 00:11
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Quote: "I couldn't disagree more. If you want to learn to play the piano play music you want to play. For me I played chart sngs etc at first. It was simple and sounded crap but at the end of the day I enjoyed playing it. "


Well, I guess you make some good points there, but classical music will teach you a lot of good technique that no other genre will ever teach you. You can play your favorite pop songs or video game themes all you want, but you're not gonna be the pianist that you would be if you played classical. Classical gives your fingers the coordination and speed that most other genres won't. The amount of dynamics and hand form/posture required in playing good classical music is something that you won't find much of elsewhere.

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Sasuke
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 01:26
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Technically game piano scores are classical (not all of course) and there are some great composer that are hired to create these scores, same could be said for some movies.

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
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Sasuke
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 01:38
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This is one of my favorite pieces and favorite scene in the movie Shine, Flight of the Bumblebee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqmDDOm15gQ

A dream is a fantasy, if you achieve that fantasy it was never a dream to begin with.
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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 02:11
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Don't learn to play on a keyboard. Learn to play on a real piano. It is a different experience and only very expensive keyboards feel and react like pianos. Even the ones with weighted keys can have a totally different feel.

Self teaching isn't easy. It's possible, but it's likely your technique will suffer without lessons. It's hard to find the drive and motivation to practice scales and exercises and whatnot without a teacher to enforce it.

DelvarWorld
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Inspire
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 02:14
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I hate the idea of scheduled lessons. With drumming, I just teach myself stuff, and when I don't have any more to learn, I go to a teacher who shows me a couple new techniques and other stuff, which I then work for a while to incorporate.
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 02:33
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Quote: "It's hard to find the drive and motivation to practice scales and exercises and whatnot without a teacher to enforce it."

On the guitar, for me, I enjoy scales. I can definitely see improvements in my hand-eye coordination (on the guitar) when I practice them and it helps me strum quicker if I keep the same pace. I'll admit, sometimes I like playing VERY random notes and _thinking_ it sounds good (When in reality the people down stairs are probably loading a shot-gun just to make the noise go away ) but playing the scales does definitely help me out. Course I'm by no means good at the guitar, or any musical instrument. But from what I have seen scales help a lot. The only thing I HATE about it is the way notes are laid out (It can be hard to tell which note is which). Course, I suppose the only reason I have trouble with that is because I find learning THAT part to be boring. Hope that helped, at least a little bit, and good luck.

Cheers,

-naota

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 15:51
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Quote: "but classical music will teach you a lot of good technique that no other genre will ever teach you."


Seriously Elton John is crazy, as in crazy big. Some of the chords in there are monstrous. furthermore if you take a look at Einaudi, some of his pieces are scary. Some of the timing is triplets over two's, mental.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 22:03 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2008 22:03
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Quote: "Seriously Elton John is crazy, as in crazy big. Some of the chords in there are monstrous. furthermore if you take a look at Einaudi, some of his pieces are scary. Some of the timing is triplets over two's, mental."


Ya, Elton John can get kinda crazy. But how big of chords can you find in Elton John. I've played some pretty big stretches. As for the trips-over-eights thing, well, I played Fantasie Impromptu a couple years back and the whole thing is sixteenth notes in right hand with triplet in left hand, except for the middle which is eighth notes in the right hand with triplets in the left. So eighths over trips or vice versa is nothing big in classical music.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2008 22:16
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Quote: "I know: "Yew, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart... it's all boring""


Not to me, I love beethoven and play it on my guitar. I bought a piano a year ago and have been teaching myself. I mostly just learn by listening and trying to mimick other songs. Or i'll play it on guitar first then try to move it over to piano.

Quote: "trying to get ahold of Diablo Tristram Theme sheet music, also Moonlight Sonata has been one of my fav's."


Let me know if you find that music. And moonlight sonata has always been a favorite of mine.

If you're looking to buy a piano, check on Craigs List. I always see upright pianos for sale dirt cheap, sometimes free. But be prepared to spend about $100 to have it tuned.


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PowerSoft
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2008 17:38
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Quote: "But how big of chords can you find in Elton John"

sorry don't quite understand the sentance

The Innuendo's, 4 Piece Indie Rock Band
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AndrewT
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2008 21:55 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2008 21:56
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Quote: "sorry don't quite understand the sentance"


?? How big (ninths, tenths, etc.) of chords (any two or more notes played in combination) can you find in Elton John (his music)??

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 5th Oct 2008 11:04
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Oh sorry I see what you mean now. Some of them are big in terms of the stretch you have on them, and others need you to be a bit of a contortionist!

The Innuendo's, 4 Piece Indie Rock Band
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Roxas
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Posted: 5th Oct 2008 13:25
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Those who like to play To Zanarkand or some KH tunes or FF tunes, i suggest checking out Price of the Freedom from FF Crisis Core

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Alucard94
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Posted: 5th Oct 2008 13:34
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Quote: "To Zanarkand"

I really love that song.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
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Roxas
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Posted: 5th Oct 2008 13:42 Edited at: 5th Oct 2008 13:50
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Quote: "I really love that song."

Then you sure will love this epic song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOJ91H4mraU No its nothing to hear it on that website.. You should hear it in the game while the final battle goes and you get the epic feel.

Talkin about epic..

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