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Geek Culture / Looking For a New Engine

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Punk13
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 04:39
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Hey all my team and another are looking for a new engine to create our first commercial product. So far we have looked into several engine including torque, game studio, unreal engine ect.. But we wanted to know your perspective. The game we are creating is a 3rd person horror shooter similar to RE4, we have the whole story, interface, media and advertising ready but now we are deciding which engine to purchase.

So far Torque seems to be the best bet with a cheap price, powerful features, content and a huge community. But we wanted to know if there are any other engines out there that can deliver

High performance
Powerful features
Hugh quality Graphis and sound
Eventing system
ect....

Thanks for your time,

Punk13






RAMPAGE STOLE MY CHEEZ-ITS!
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Deathead
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 04:55
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Let me guess this is for Xtinction? The game from MR? Well, I don't know, but really start with DBPro, or start with something much easier, the Game engines you mentioned all have a language similar to C++(This is quite hard to learn). So really you're better off with either Blitz Basic or DBPRo.


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-Butterfingers
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Frankie Pawnage5
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 05:21
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@Deathead, Were good with C++. Just tell us a good engine, NOT DBPro this game MUST be commercial worthy

nothing from TGC.

dude if you really want a turkey sandwich, then make one, and make ham.sdaF?
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Punk13
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 05:27
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Quote: "Let me guess this is for Xtinction? The game from MR? "


Well the game is not MR exclusive we just have our home forums there for our team and us to discuss.

Quote: "nothing from TGC."


Well Frank dont down TGC there software is capible of commercial quality it all depends on the developer. And We arnt gwtting the Unreal engine no matter how much you want to now,lol. I'm not paying $7,500.00 for a copy it,lol maybe if i ever find a spare $10,000 but until then. I can only afford an engine under $500.00 and i know your budget is around the same as mine.
.

I think torque might be the best bet but im not totally sure.


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Frankie Pawnage5
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 05:29
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Well the Unreal Engine 2 is out of the question, not good enough quality, and the unreal engine 3 is over half a million bucks, and quite frankly i dont have that much in my wallet right now.

dude if you really want a turkey sandwich, then make one, and make ham.sdaF?
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Game Maker
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 06:05 Edited at: 26th Oct 2008 06:07
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Click on me.
Or click on me.

Don't click the image, it links to an image hosting site!
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 06:27
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Torque looks very promising for you guys. It's highly customizable, very powerful, has a great user and support base, and is very well documented. I've been to a few local game development conferences that swear by Torque.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 06:28
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if you are good with C++ then GDK should be enough. an engine doesnt hold someone's game back, its the skills of the programmers...

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Jimmy
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 06:34
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http://www.ogre3d.org/

"Oh hey, nice website Jimmy, it's really nice and fancy." -- That C++ Nerd
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Thraxas
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 09:15
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I have a copy of the Torque engine and to be honest, I don't like using it anymore...

At first I was very excited by everything it could do but after a while I realised that without serious editing of the source code I couldn't get it to do what I wanted...

I know that is the same for any engine you buy but I personally found it very limiting... I do have friends, though, who think it's an amazing engine and wouldn't use anything else...

I also think you should start small if this is your first serious project... It's very easy to be enthusiastic about the game you're about to create but if you give yourself too much to do you get swamped and then it's never finished... Everything you learn from completing smaller projects will help you with a large project... Good luck with your game

"Quoting yourself is stupid and self-centered"-Thraxas
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nackidno
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 10:42
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Panda 3D?
C4 engine?
Ogre 3D?
Leadwerks?

Or search till you die?

"Ja, för det är jävligt manligt att ligga fosterställning i duschen och raka röven! Testa det! "
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Roxas
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 11:02
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Torgue is not really good IMO,

You are good to go with
-Ogre3d
-Irrlicht
-DGK (Dark basic pro engine with cpp)

But the speedy one and what i would recommend are:
-Ogre3d
-Irrlicht

Those are propally best free ones and used comerically.

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Grandma
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 12:03
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I'd recommend looking into Irrlicht

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 13:28
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I would also like to recommend Irrlicht.

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 16:12 Edited at: 26th Oct 2008 16:13
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I recommend Leadwerks. Because Sandbox looks amazing, lighting automatically creates effects and awesomeness!

And I recommend Source as well... shame you need a source game to get it..

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Aertic
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 16:51 Edited at: 26th Oct 2008 16:53
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Quote: "And I recommend Source as well... shame you need a source game to get it.."

No, just no, Source engine is like unreal 3. its worth millions of pounds.
do you expect atleast one person here to have that kind of money?
Do you?

Also by "all you need is a source game", you mean making a modification, as owning the a game does not mean you have the full engine itself, (rights to sell.) it just means you have a right to use source SDK and make a modification.

But yes source engine is beyond good, only that you can make a modification(if you have much more money and what not, then you can buy the engine itself.) and not sell the modification.


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-'Butterfingers'
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 16:55 Edited at: 26th Oct 2008 17:26
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Well you could try maybe DarkBASIC, DB Pro or perhaps Dark GDK you know. Considering where you are. And none of this 'not commercial quality' rubbish, because you're not going to make it.

EDIT:
Quote: "What's wrong with Leadwerks, which is great for physics and lighting? Thats sold by TGC. "

That's a good point too.

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
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General Reed
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 17:08
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If you want shorter development times, you should use irrlicht. It has most of the latest features, but not all.

If you are more interesting in power, and a good scenemanager. Use ogre. It takes longer to do something using ogre, but imo its worth it.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Tom J
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 17:19
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Quote: "nothing from TGC."


What's wrong with Leadwerks, which is great for physics and lighting? Thats sold by TGC.
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General Reed
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 17:20
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Actully yes leadwerks is probably a good choice. Tho you would have to make your game fairly scaleable, because not everyone has the machine to run leadwerks on full.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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AndrewT
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 17:32
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Well, before you go out and spend hundreds on several copies of Torque or C4, ask yourself something...do you really think that you're actually going to be able to produce a high-quality commercial game? I'm not saying that you guys aren't skilled engough - maybe you are, maybe you aren't, idk - but make sure you are very competent in C++ and game design before you go out and buy an engine. You might buy an engine then see that making such a game is much harder then you think, and you might realize that an open-source graphic engine like Ogre3D with some libraries for sound, physics and input is all you really need. Just think about that.

<<---------CLICK IT
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Frankie Pawnage5
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 17:38
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Nah were pretty good with all that, which is why we were aiming for a higher quality engine.

dude if you really want a turkey sandwich, then make one, and make ham.sdaF?
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 17:46
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I'd love to hear you say DBP isn't commercially able in the DBP Showcase board......

I too, am moving on from FPSC. I'll still use it, hell, it's fun and easy to use. But sadly, it's limited.....

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Frankie Pawnage5
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 18:09
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its VERY limited, and DBP isnt good enough, we want...high quality.

dude if you really want a turkey sandwich, then make one, and make ham.sdaF?
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Alucard94
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 18:13
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Quote: "its VERY limited, and DBP isnt good enough, we want...high quality.
"




Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
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Aertic
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 18:34
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Quote: "its VERY limited, and DBP isnt good enough, we want...high quality."

Have you even tried dark basic pro?
Awhile back someone made or was making a game called robot isalnd or somthing like that, and it looked SUPERB, amazing, it was cormercial quality by far.
And Im not exaggerating neither. the game looked beutiful, the specular maps were brilliant, bump/normal mapping, everything, it was beyond words that I can describe it.
All that was needed was Hardcore trial and error, just to create somthing beutifull.
it was superb, amazing, satisfying to every last bit of detail.

/rant.


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-'Butterfingers'
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General Reed
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 18:41
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It depends on your view of what "commercial quality" is. I find that dbpro is adaquate in terms of graphial quality, if you really fiddle with things. But as far as pure number crunching goes, or organizational layouts, like oo, its not adaquate for a commercial game. The loops, and if statements are too slow for games like medieval total war etc.

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 18:49
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Seriously, haven't you seen Riftspace or Starcraft (I hope I got those names right)? They look awesome, they play awesome and they're made in DB Classic.

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
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Alucard94
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 18:49
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Quote: "Starcraft"

Starcraft was made in DBC?!


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
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Jimmy
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 18:54
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Quote: "Starcraft was made in DBC?!"


Uh, ya. Where have you been?

"Oh hey, nice website Jimmy, it's really nice and fancy." -- That C++ Nerd
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FINN MAN
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 18:55 Edited at: 26th Oct 2008 19:06
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DBP is not a game engine it is a frame work like XNA. If you had the time and knowledge to program an game engine I would say use DBP or XNA or DGK. But because you sound like you want an engine I would tell you to try out Blade 3D. The engine was written with XNA so you can run you games on both the xbox 360 and the pc. The engine is very powerful and cheep as it works on a per month base. I would suggest that you get the $14.95 hobby license and if you make anything good get the $29.95 The Independent License and if you need the source code I would tell you to get the $100 license.

http://www.blade3d.com/Home/tabid/126/Default.aspx


Frankie Pawnage5 you think that "its VERY limited, and DBP isnt good enough, we want...high quality." well do you know that dbp is simply a framework build on top of DirectX? Do you think the DirectX is not very powerfull?

http://www.militaryfreezone.org/
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Aertic
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 19:12
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And yet, Dark-basic Pro DX10 is apparently in the works, as rumours say...
=D


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-'Butterfingers'
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General Reed
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 19:12
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Quote: "simply a framework build on top of DirectX?"

Yes this is true, but you have to remember that because of the inherrent inefficientcy of a compiled BASIC program, a lot of the Fps's go towards things that are completely unneccesery in plain directx in c++. Also in DarkBasicPro, loops and if statements are inherently a lot lot slower than those in c++, Of course if you use DarkGDK, most of these fps issues go away. However the scene management in dbpro and darkgdk, is not exactly top of the range, simply because the engine is designed to be useable in many diffrent genreres, when obviously the most efficient scene management for a game like GTA is going to be diffrent to that of an fps... But thats another thing.

Ive found DBPro good for two things. Simple shooters, which are more about eye candy and visual effects, than cpu intensive AI etc... And quickly prototyping an idea.

-General Reed

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Alucard94
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 19:48
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Quote: "Uh, ya. Where have you been?
"

Under a rock seemingly. I feel stupid now.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
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BatVink
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 20:14
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Quote: "@Deathead, Were good with C++. Just tell us a good engine, NOT DBPro this game MUST be commercial worthy

nothing from TGC."


Watch the Convention presentation featuring Phil Scott. He works for NVIDIA, and he is quite confident that DBP / DarkGDK is one of the best options without spending hundreds of thousands on UE3.

Quote: "its VERY limited, and DBP isnt good enough, we want...high quality."


Starcraft, Riftspace, Driving Test Practical, Touch Typing, FPSC...where is the issue with quality? TGCs Driving test titles outsold Halo, so the market would suggest the quality is hitting the mark quite well.


A good idea might be to upload some of the work you have done where the quality of DBP prevented you accomplishing what you wanted to achieve. Without seeing where it let you down, it's difficult to advise.

Given you own 3DS Max 2009, why are you discussing the cheap price of Torque? I would assume that price isn't an issue in this decision?

Quote: "dude im not returning. this is it for me here.moon rising forums has so much more to offer."

Glad to see you consider these forums have some value and returned

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Accoun
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 20:22
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Quote: "Starcraft, Riftspace, Driving Test Practical, Touch Typing, FPSC...where is the issue with quality? TGCs Driving test titles outsold Halo, so the market would suggest the quality is hitting the mark quite well."

You mean PC or Xbox+PC?

Quote: "Starcraft, Riftspace, Driving Test Practical, Touch Typing, FPSC"

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!111oneoneone

Make games, not war.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 20:25
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Quote: "Given you own 3DS Max 2009, why are you discussing the cheap price of Torque? I would assume that price isn't an issue in this decision?"


Suspicious much?

It's relatively simple to download the Ultimate Shader Pack, and implement them into your engine. This is basically the engine equivalent of those "Best Modelling program" threads. No engine does it for you, you have to have dedication and skill to make a game engine....

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zenassem
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 20:28
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Can someone tell me what is this Starcraft that is being mentioned? I thought it was a typo the first time.

Quote: "Starcraft, Riftspace, Driving Test Practical, Touch Typing, FPSC...where is the issue with quality?"


I searched the forum and only found a Starcraft shooter WIP that hasn't gone anywhere.

"When I look at that square... I wish FPSC noobs would stay on their side of the forums and stop polluting these boards." - Benjamin
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Jimmy
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 20:38 Edited at: 26th Oct 2008 20:40
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Heh...

Starcraft




"Oh hey, nice website Jimmy, it's really nice and fancy." -- That C++ Nerd
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Punk13
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 21:34
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Quote: "Ultimate Shader Pack"


Do tell more please.

About DBP i have no problem using it. Well here is how it works. We have a team and dont plan to do everything on our own. Here is what Frankie and i do

Frankie-Lead Developer-Modeler-

He and i are the lead developers. He creates alot of the models and especially the weapons that are in Xtinction. He also handles alot of business inquires from other freelance scripters, modelers ect...

(Me) Jake- Lead Developer-Level Designer-Story

I control the environment of the game, level design and all. I also make alot of the storyline and plot of the game. And make contact with talented people (mostly from here, you guys all know your all very talented) I also help out with advertising and such. I also do alot of the media in the game. Concept art, 3d cutscenes, and alot of sound. Just to name a few....

So we are pretty talented but certainly cant get for without a great team. So we do some coding and all. But really we are looking for a head coder and believe we found one.

But im all for DBP if you guys say its great. Ill also look into those other engines.

I looked atogre3d like a week ago and it looked good but it kind of scared me



Anyway have a good one please reply.


RAMPAGE STOLE MY CHEEZ-ITS!
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El Goorf
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 21:35
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stop saying starcraft you're hurting my eyes! it's starwraith! completely different games! starcraft was made by blizzard years before dbc was around!

starWRAITH was made in dbc

there. got it off my chest.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 21:52 Edited at: 26th Oct 2008 21:53
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Have you tried World of Wraithcraft? It was made in T3DGM before you were born!

"Oh hey, nice website Jimmy, it's really nice and fancy." -- That C++ Nerd
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monotonic
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Leadwerks engine is all you need, I bought it a couple of weeks ago and have to say I haven't looked back. I read posts from people who say you need a super computer to run it, but you don't. Fair enough you need a mid ranged GPU to get the engine to run but you can get one for £50 maybe less.

I was watching the videos from the convention the other day, and I watched as Lee said the Leadwerks engine was good but you needed a super computer to run it, and I remember thinking 'but the Leadwerks engine has lower system requirements than FPS X10'.

FPS X10 requires a SM 4.0 graphics card minimum, LWE requires a SM 3.0 graphics card minimum.

WARNING! The author of this post is most probably drunk or asleep.
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FINN MAN
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 22:04
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http://www.blade3d.com/Home/tabid/126/Default.aspx

like I posed above bland3D is a very nice engine written in c# with XNA. It is grate if you have something you want to work on both the pc and Xbox360.

http://www.militaryfreezone.org/
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zenassem
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 22:31 Edited at: 26th Oct 2008 22:37
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Personally I would go with the Excel Engine

More info here



"When I look at that square... I wish FPSC noobs would stay on their side of the forums and stop polluting these boards." - Benjamin
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 23:45
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Quote: "TGCs Driving test titles outsold Halo"




Oh yeah, what about EVOCHRON? That's DB too.

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 23:46
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Get Nuclear Fusion. End of story. The 3.05 release due out very soon is much more optimized than any engine I've EVER seen. And I've seen engines that cost millions of dollars. 3.03 isn't good though, I'll be honest there. I speak with the creator of the engine regularly, I think people could say we're friends, but I'm not biased in my opinion because of that. Nuclear Fusion is better than DBPro, it's better than Blitz, and so on. You have to use C++ to use it though, but if you like you could get Nuclear Basic when it's out.

Nuclear Fusion features its own GUI, an optimized 3D engine which is capable of using Direct3D and OpenGL, an entity system, database and networking support, file I/O, input from mouse, keyboard, and joystick that doesn't rely on DirectInput (but is just as powerful), support for audio and 3D sound, and a kick-ass collision system, etc, etc. It's 3D command set is powerful enough to create your own 3D modeller even! And, in fact, the creator (as you can see at their forums) was going to modify Blender3D - He even showed screenshots of how he made it better.

http://www.nuclearglory.com

But like I said, wait 'till 3.05, or you can get 3.03 now and 3.05 is a free upgrade.

Cheers,

-naota

I'm not a dictator to those that do stuff for me by will. Only those who don't.
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General Reed
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Posted: 26th Oct 2008 23:57 Edited at: 27th Oct 2008 00:03
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Quote: "Lee said the Leadwerks engine was good but you needed a super computer to run it, and I remember thinking 'but the Leadwerks engine has lower system requirements than FPS X10'."

Lol yes, very very true.

If you are very keen on getting a "High Quality" game, just create a new engine to suit your development team's needs, using directxSDK/OpenglSDK and Physx sdk(if you require physics).

CPU: AMD X2 6000+ 3.0ghz GFX: NVIDIA BFG Geforce 8800GTS 640MB OC-550mhz core RAM: 2048mb

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BatVink
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Posted: 27th Oct 2008 00:06
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Starcraft, Star Wraith...I say Potato, you say patato. I've never known a typo cause so much fuss

Quote: "If I was to ask you what software title is currently riding higher in the Top 10 PC charts than the likes of Halo, Worms 3D or Finding Nemo you'd assume it would be some new mega game. What you probably wouldn't expect is that it's actually a full 3D driving simulator written in DarkBASIC.

Released at the start of November 2003, Driving Test Success Practical was produced by The Game Creators and publised by Focus Multimedia. Since its release it's already enjoying a prominent position in the charts, being the fourth title in the Driving Test Success series; the highest selling budget PC range in the UK. Due to its popularity you will be able to pick the title up in just about any software store or supermarket (we even saw copies of it for sale in our local Asda the other day). It is a truly mass-market product and anticipated to go on and sell hundreds of thousands of copies. "


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CoffeeGrunt
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Joined: 5th Oct 2007
Location: England
Posted: 27th Oct 2008 00:21
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Just use the 3D Game Maker, it rocks....

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