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FPS Creator X10 / Question about x10 effects folder.

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seth zer0
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 01:26
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Ive been messing with the effect in x10. And notice i don't have a lot of the .fx file folders that x9 have like bumpbone and all that other good stuff. Is that normal or am i missing some files. And can i just copy them from x9 then paste them into x10 then will they work?

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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 13:36
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Don't quote me on this, but I think the X10-shaders are all sort of integrated into the engine itself instead of being seperate files. Either that or they were all combined into a few files instead of one for each effect.

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 16:08
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I dont know where they are, but anyways if you have a shader you have found you can put it into the effectsbank and then use it properly.

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SikaSina Games
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 20:00
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Quote: "if you have a shader you have found you can put it into the effectsbank and then use it properly."


X10 doesn't support X9 shaders, it just packs up and says that D3D10 isn't installed, then it just closes.

-FCV


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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 23:38
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FCV is right

You can't take an existing X9 shader, drop it into an X10 game and have it work, although that would have been nice given the cinematic character shader model 3 template bond1 released in his model pack recently.

I asked Lee about this who said the following after I tried getting an X9 shader into X10 just by changing the pixel and vertex shader version to 4.0 (like that was going to work LOL):

"You can't take an old existing shader and change the PS (pixel shader) version as X10 uses shaders dependent on both the basepool.fx shader which provides the constants and global structures, and also uses a few specialised hooks into the engine.

The best way to customise shaders for X10 is to take the existing WIBBLERELIEF shader and modify that (within the context of the basepool include). Sort of like changing it bit by bit until you get what you want. As there are so many tools producing different types of FX file, and each shader must hook to a black box engine at some point, it is not possible to achieve the kind of easy importing that you are attempting. Shader writing is not for the faint hearted at the moment, especially when the shaders use specialised hooks and global constants."
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seth zer0
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Posted: 19th Feb 2009 14:32
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I thought that darkshader did work for x10.. Dang and I was going to buy that oh well..
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The Next
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Posted: 20th Feb 2009 17:58
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Dark shader should work in X10 a mate of mine got going in a X10 game he made at least he said he did. In FPSC X10 the majority of the shader files are not keep in the file system they are hard coded into the source code in DBP this is to stop people ripping of things from Dark Shader or where they where made originally made. They do the exact same thing with Dark AI thats why we don't have scriptable Dark AI commands its all about copyright that is also why there is no X10 source code so we cant steal the commands and use in other DBP games. Not all the shaders are like this but there are some hidden inside the source code which cant be changed at all. I felt like explaining that as i felt someone would ask the reason why it is done that way later on.

Pixel Shader Model 3.0 cannot be changed to work in 4.0 it just doesn't work, you must make it from scratch which when using the FPSC X10 engine is very hard to do that we have hardly any information on how the engine operates which is rather annoying to be honest. If we knew more about the engine then we could make custom shaders to a certain extent. FCV is correct FPSC X9 shaders DO NOT work in X10 it will crash the engine when you attempt to load it up.

Hope that answered all your questions as of yet. That should all be right it seems right but wrote this very quickly so if you find errors do correct me

So... You have messed up your FPS Creator again - The dreaded words are back

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 21st Feb 2009 00:54
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Quote: "Pixel Shader Model 3.0 cannot be changed to work in 4.0 it just doesn't work, you must make it from scratch which when using the FPSC X10 engine is very hard to do that we have hardly any information on how the engine operates which is rather annoying to be honest."


It is a bit annoying that getting custom shaders into FPSC X10 is going to be even more difficult than X9. Having said that there doesn't seem to be much information on the net about shader model 4 programming period.

The only thing we can do right now is play with one of the shaders that has been made available (wibblyrelief.fx) and see how much mileage there is with that.
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The Next
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Posted: 21st Feb 2009 10:42
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Quote: "The only thing we can do right now is play with one of the shaders that has been made available (wibblyrelief.fx) and see how much mileage there is with that."


Even that im guessing wont be very editable really all it does is wobble things at different speeds like water.

So... You have messed up your FPS Creator again - The dreaded words are back

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 21st Feb 2009 19:31
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Weird since Bonds characters with shaders works for me...

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seth zer0
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2009 08:41
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@BIG Viking Games. But They use the shader's in x10 though.
And am i comprehending this right that dark shader does work with x10.
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2009 23:30 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2009 23:34
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I think there needs to be some clarification here.

FPSC X10 uses shader model 4 which Dark Shader won't compile at present meaning you won't be able to use it for making a custom shader for FPSC X10.

Bond1 has released a shader model 3 template for FPSC X9 that allows the user to create spectacular shaders using settings provided in the shader itself when loaded in Dark Shader. Meaning you can make a custom shader that is guaranteed to work in FPSC X9.

Unfortunately shader model 4 does not allow shader model 3 shaders to be used so no FPSC X9 shaders can be used in the X10 engine. As seth ser0 says you will see normal and specular maps in use but using FPSC X10's default shaders not custom ones using shader model 2 or 3.

Let me show you an example. Attached is a screenshot of a scene in FPSC X9 with bond1's Dante beast with shader model 3 shader.

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2009 23:34
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Now here's the same scene in FPSC X10 using the same normal and specular maps for bond1's dante beast but using the default X10 shaders.

Doesn't look bad but cannot be customised as the shaders are built in to FPSC X10. You can of course edit the normal and specular maps to change the intensity of the effects but not the actual shader.

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seth zer0
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2009 01:19
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Wow that looks better in x10(I think). Now if I could get x10 to work that good for me ill be a happy man. Cant get any of my things to show up with good normal maps and Specular maps. Cant figure out why And I've been using nomad soul's tutorial. Here a pics of what mine looks like.

@Nomad Soul thanks for clearing that up for me.. So no darkshader doesn't work

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2009 03:42 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2009 03:43
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No problem seth zer0.

FPSC X10 is superior to X9 in the graphics department as it should be.

The only problem with X10 right now is the lack of shader customisation support and the fact theres a bunch of clever people working on impressive mods that can't be done for X10 yet. When that time comes after the code bases are aligned for both engines, X10 has far for bandwidth for adding high end features that won't be hampered by performance issues.

Watch this space for an updated version of the texture tutorial coming soon. Hopefully with inclusion of Jingle Fett's parallax mapping tutorial if I can sign him up.[email]

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Squalker
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2009 04:26 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2009 04:28
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Quote: "Wow that looks better in x10(I think). Now if I could get x10 to work that good for me ill be a happy man. Cant get any of my things to show up with good normal maps and Specular maps. Cant figure out why And I've been using nomad soul's tutorial. Here a pics of what mine looks like.
"


When you are testing your normal and specular maps make sure you not only delete the dbo and bin files... but make you also change something in the level so it re-does the light maps... add an extra segment block or something so it re-does the light maps...

other wise it will use the same light map and you won't see the deference in your textures..

Hopes this helps

Squalker
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seth zer0
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2009 05:56
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Thanks it did a lot, The little things I over look.

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