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Geek Culture / a law question...maybe rich knows?

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Yian
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 10:51
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Hey guys am I allowed to buy a pc game(original) from a store and then resell it at my own store? All this takes places in the EU so I guess has to do with EU laws.
-john D.
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Eric T
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 11:05
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I belive that is a yes, although you may need permission from the publisher regarding some games.

Opinions are like a$$holes, Everybody has one.
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Yian
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 11:20
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could u be specific please(examples?)

-john D.
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Wiggett
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 11:35
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well i guess it would cause you can sell your games second hand whenever you want, but you will probably be better off buying from a manufacturer than from a stoer cause it will be cheaper and you will profit more.


http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/unpotkf
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empty
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 12:58 Edited at: 10th Aug 2003 12:59
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Not quite.
The shop where you buy the game from can forbid you to re-sell it. Read their Conditions of Sale. The only way to get around it is to declare the item as "second hand".

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
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Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 13:13
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no you cant, this is illegal.

even selling your games second-hand is illegal (but overlooked).

Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken.
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Mentor
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 14:16
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Quote: "The shop where you buy the game from can forbid you to re-sell it"


and how are they gonna do that exactly?, follow all their customers to see what they do with their purchases?, unles it`s branded you CAN resell, and there is a precedent, here in the UK a few years back there was a row between supermarkets and small shops, the small shops where buying their stock from the supermarkets because they could buy it for less from there than they could from the wholesalers, the supermarkets had such lucrative contracts with the wholesalers and manufacturers they could sell stuff at as much as 1/2 the price the small shops could buy it at trade prices, naturaly the supermarkets where trying to stop them by refuseing to serve customers with large amounts of goods, and that got some real customers annoyed and it made the newspapers and TV, but they couldn`t legaly stop the shoptraders trading their stuff, as long as it wasn`t "own brand"(since they could then claim they where debaseing the supermarkets reputation), in the end the wholesalers where forced to sell stuff to the small shops at a reasonable price, but the supermarkets couldn`t stop shopowners selling the stuff they bought off their shelves and where told so in court, I remember it because my parents had a small shop at the time and they where sending us to buy stock a trolley at a time in supermarkets all over town , you must also realise that a trader wouldn`t give a damn if you sold it again since he is always going to be able to sell it cheaper than you unless you take a loss, even then you won`t hurt his trade, cos every one you sell he has to sell to you in the first place, so he is selling the game to the "lost" customer anyway, it might even increase his stocks exposure and INCREASE his profits, if you want to give money away thats your concern, the only time this might be illegal is like if you tried to sell Return to Castle Wolfenstien in Germany, it`s against the law to sell anything to do with Nazi`s or Hitler in Germany, and that includes videogames, likewise in Greece ALL videogames are illegal, you can`t legaly have such a thing as a Greek DB user since the cd has demo games on it, cheers.

Mentor.

Mentor.

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Yian
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 14:36
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lol so i guess the answer's no..?

-john D.
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Shock
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 14:52
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mentor, your way would be common sense, but as we all know the law isnt common sense. Just to back up my statement above:

Quote: "
no you cant, this is illegal.

even selling your games second-hand is illegal (but overlooked).
"


and to say that the answer is no, here's a little quote:
(note: it depends on the game manufacturer whether to pursue this or not)

Quote: "
Unauthorised copying, adaptation, rental, lending, re-sale, arcade use, charging for use, broadcast, cable transmission, public performance, distribution or extraction of this product or any trademark or copyright work that forms part of this product are prohibited."


Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken.
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empty
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 14:54
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Quote: "
and how are they gonna do that exactly? follow all their customers to see what they do with their purchases?
"

Well, that wasn't the point, or did i miss something?

I didn't know about that precedent in the UK. But that seems to vary from country to country (within the EU) as I'm pretty sure that you can forbid reselling items (commercially) in Ireland and Germany.

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 16:54
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There is a store i go to alot that sells games bought from other stores(like blockbuster for some reason) and from other ppl. I dont think its iligal.
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Mentor
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 17:12
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GAME stores buy back titles and re-sell them, I can`t see they could do that and advertise they do it if it was illegal, I think in the case of reselling they would have to prove there was loss to the original seller, and in the case of buying at full price from a shop and selling on (if you haven`t copied or installed it) there wouldn`t be, but if you had it would be piracy and come under copyright laws, in the first case the original seller can`t lose, if a game store owner knew some guy was a kickass salesman and he wanted to buy games from the store at full price and sell them on I doubt the games store owner would be beating on the doors of the local courthouse to get him stopped , and even if he did what are you going to sue him for?, making you richer?

Mentor.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 17:17
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I would bet that it's to do with stating it is secondhand. GAME sells second hand, as does Virtual Games (a lot), but both state they are second hand.

Don't think there is much they can do about you selling your own property on.

Re-selling is a different matter though I reckon. You are basically saying it is brand new.

But a lot of companies that sell secondhand, are not that cheap (esp. GAME). So can't see a problem. I would bet there is nowhere that says what price you must sell at, even if it is secondhand. Hell, after a while, rare objects can be resold at more than their original RRP.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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the_winch
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 19:04
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If there was any large ammount of money envolved then the law might come into effect. More than likley if anyone had a problem with it it would be the distributers and once they found out what was going on they would stop who you where buying off from selling to you. If you where making anykind of money you would buy your games from a distributer anyway.

Everygame that makes it into a shop has been sold at least twice after the customer has brought it.

Quote: "Unauthorised copying, adaptation, rental, lending, re-sale, arcade use, charging for use, broadcast, cable transmission, public performance, distribution or extraction of this product or any trademark or copyright work that forms part of this product are prohibited."


I can write "unautorised storing of this product in a cupboard with marshmellows is prohibited" on a cd if I want to, doesn't mean I have any legal backing to demand and enforce such a statement.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 19:20
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Yeah, but I think saying it is "brand new" from a shop, even though it has been through at least 1 companies hands, is because you have authorisation from the people who own it.

Am sure we covered this in University, but I missed most of the classes cos I wasn't awake/ bothered. What I do remember is through a haze of sleep/ hangover.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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8truths
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 20:04
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Technically, they are licensed in most countries and may not be resold.

However, there is some fierce debate over whether this is against the law (since it circumvents primary sale rules that allow resale by the purchaser).

To the best of my knowledge, no software co. has taken anyone to the mat over this.

If they do squack, they hope cease and desist orders will do the deal.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
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Dazzag
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 20:14
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Well, if I want to sell what I own to someone else, then I can't see how anyone can stop me really. I don't really think that one is an issue. But me setting up a shop to sell my stuff may cause problems.

Is probably the same sort of thing as years ago. All of us had tape copies of albums and speccy games. But no-one ever gave a damn. And they don't nowadays either. Mainly because who cares about individual people, is all about people who sell the stuff. Have a copy of Manic Miner if you want (Everyone, EVERYONE, had a copy. Even the teachers used to ask for a copy), they would have had to arrest the entire male population of the school system at the time, but don't try to sell it.... oh no....

Heh, I can just imagine the scenes if the Police went raiding car boot sales.. hoho... "Friendly" Dave being carted away because he was trying to hock his 15 year old original of Test Drive for 10p. Hmmm.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Aug 2003 20:28
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... Shock is right, take the time to read over the TOU that come with your game.

sometimes on the box, manual or elua on the CD...
but you'll find a line similar to this



and technically your only allowed to install games onto a single computer.
though why on earth would you want to buy a game just to sell it?
you could actually make a profit by buying units from a publisher and reselling.

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Megaman Zero
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Posted: 11th Aug 2003 01:20
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Quote: "no you cant, this is illegal.

even selling your games second-hand is illegal (but overlooked)."


Well, if this was the case, then walmart is breaking the law, & so is target, & every other seller of the game except for the orriginal vendor, due to them having to buy the games from the orriginal vendor, so I would say otherwise.

Most games however, will allow for it, it depends on the game I guess, but most games will.

@ Raven

What you posted seems very similar to the copyright breaking acts that are in place, when you make a pirated copy of the game, instead of buying the orriginal & selling it online or something.

@ John Darkeye

My advice to you at this current time, would be to go up to the store you are buying it from, & ask them about each specific game.

Have you all heard of EBay & Half.com? They sell secondhand games, in most countries & they are allowed to do it, so if ebay or half.com is in your area, & they have the game listed that you want to sell, & there are multiple copies of each game, it is probably ok to sell it.

In the US, if the game is brand new, not opened or damaged, it is probably considered buying from a vendor & still considered new, & not second hand, even though it is.

Zero (Formerly Shadow Guyver)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Aug 2003 02:49
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megaman did your read ALL of it...
some companies can get permission to resale - because in order to sell software you must have permission from the publishers/copyright holders.

Wal*Mart/ASDA, Blockbuster, and such places HAVE this permission.
you have the exact same laws governing Video Tapes or DvDs

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Ian T
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Posted: 11th Aug 2003 03:06
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Those companies get resale permission. Which costs. So no, you can't just sell games back.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
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