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Newcomers DBPro Corner / DBPro vs. Rivals

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Nick2002
21
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Joined: 4th Nov 2002
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Posted: 4th Nov 2002 19:11
I am looking to download a number of 3D games creation programs to see which is the best. However I was wondering what your opinions were? How does DBPro compare with Multimedia Fusion, Jamagic, Blitz3D, 3D Gamestudio, 3D Rad, 3D Gamemaker, RPG Toolkit and DiNGS Game Basic etc., in terms of power, speed, ease of use and graphics quality?

Also, when is the next major update of DBPro? Is there going to be a DBPro 2 released any time soon?

Thanks for all the help. As for my programming experience, well I currently use Klik & Play on my six-year old P120 with 16MB RAM! I would say that I am a beginner but I am willing to learn whatever programming language necessary. I have a little knowledge in Pascal, Delphi, C++, Basic, and QBasic already, as well as JavaScript. I essentially require a powerful, easy to use, preferably expandable program that should be suitable for me as a beginner but also advanced enough for me when I improve.

The reason I am asking this question is that I am planning to get a new computer at Christmas and would like to move on from Klik & Play to 3D games (actually I might just wait until ClawHammer/Athlon DT comes out, whenever that may be). Having said that, would a 64-bit processor like the ClawHammer actually be better for 3D programming than a 32-bit one (e.g. the Athlon XP)?

Sorry if I seem a little stupid, but I'm just looking for the most suitable 3D upgrade to Kilk.

Cheers,

Nick
Puffy
21
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 5th Nov 2002 09:00
hrmmm ... NO FLAMES OK... but this is how i see it right now... i know over 20 programmin languages... imagine how messed up i get on syntax all the time... ive got a bad habit of putting semi colons everywhere right now... been working with a lot of c++ lately and less x86 assembly...

1)GameStudio (YES YES YES I LOVE IT... cost me an *assload*)
2)DbPro (OH YEH RAISE DA ROOF PATCH 3 WILL OWNZ)
3)Blitz3D (BlitzMax will prob ownz db but who cares db ownz)
4)Jamagic... (this looks awesome... could go above dbpro or blitz3D)
5)RPG Toolkit(...click and creatish... looks like graal... but you could make the next clone of a zelda clone... and zelda was a good game)
6)3Drad (... i like its ai brains =\...)
7)3d game maker(click and create +slow+1 kind of game... =\ plz dont hate me for saying this rich... bottom it goes)

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/2.5mbs Sat Con... I joined in!
Ravey
Retired TGC Developer
21
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Joined: 2nd Nov 2002
Location: Southern TGC Nerve Centre
Posted: 5th Nov 2002 21:51
No flames for me either please - this is just MY personal opinion

I have given darkbasic pro a good testing and found it to be far slower than Blitz3D. DarkBasic wipes the floor as far as "eye candy" effects - but most arent supported by the majority of 3d cards anyway.

I have written and sold 2 commercial games in Blitz3D and it still remains my preference.

Also - DBPro seems so very buggy.

I gave Jamagic a test run and was left totally in awe of how poor it was - I wouldnt touch it with a barge pole.

Both Dark Basic Pro and Blitz3d are great but if you want to sell something commercially I would reccomend Blitz3D every time.
Sly D
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Joined: 15th Oct 2002
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Posted: 5th Nov 2002 22:02
Ok i was just interested whats so good with Blitz 3D.
I mean DB is really great tool and with DBpro its really GREAT.Oh and is it true that CShop was made in Blitz 3D?
Ravey
Retired TGC Developer
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Location: Southern TGC Nerve Centre
Posted: 6th Nov 2002 11:35
OK - again please no flames as I own both and this is my personal opinion.

Blitz3D just takes after it's name - it is very fast, it doesnt (yet) have all the bells and whistles dbpro does like real time shadows etc - but most of the bells and whistle only work on the very latest 3D cards and so are not that useful (will become more useful as time goes on of course). Blitz is harder to program as DPPro is a lot simpler and seems a higher level than Blitz, downside of being higher level is that it results in slower code.
For simpler games I would reccomend DBPro but for bigger projects (my Binman game for instance - http://blitz.idigicon.com/project_detailb.asp?ProjectName=Binman ) I would reccomend Blitz3D.

At the end of the day though - both languages are great and its very much down to how you get on with the language - some people would be able to produce better games in DBPro than they would in Blitz and vice versa, I happen to favour Blitz3D because it's lower level and in my tests a lot faster. The bells and whistles are nice - but Blitz will have those in time.

Best way to pick a tool is to have a crack with the trial versions - although you have to bare in mind that the trial versions do not always contain the latest additions.

Play some games from the respective showcases also to see what people are producing.

I think it is a bad thing to say one is better than the other - I think us "backroom coders" need as many games languages to succeed as possible.

Yes CShop was made in Blitz3D.
rapscaLLion
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 6th Nov 2002 14:47
OMFG! What is wrong with you Nick?
When your post gets locked on one board, you don't go open it on another, unless it's appropriate. And this isn't an appropriate spot!
You have posted the EXACT SAME POST one at least three boards!

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Get the DB Weekly Newsletter at www.dbwn.cjb.net
indi
21
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 6th Nov 2002 15:12
DBPro isnt complete yet Ravey.

You compared products with incomplete distributions.

Theres a lot more speed improvements on the horizon for you to make an assumption like that

Id take a look at the way I conduct my tests if u have tested and resulted in this so easily without the final updates.

Just a thought so u can not be questioned by your testing methods.

indi is part of Team Lunarpixel
multimedia logisitics and interactive media
Ravey
Retired TGC Developer
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Location: Southern TGC Nerve Centre
Posted: 6th Nov 2002 17:27
Indi - i know, but then Blitz3D isnt complete either - its currently being updated to DirectX 9 with all the bells and whistles - but I ignored that fact in my post and commented on the languages as they are right now. Both have a lot of stuff in the pipeline I am sure. As I said - they are both great and different people will get on with different languages - one isnt better than the other - but one is probably more suitable for an individual than the other (but thats up to us individually to decide).

I quite enjoy having both
Nick2002
21
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Joined: 4th Nov 2002
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Posted: 6th Nov 2002 19:05
Sorry! I didn't realise that this kind of thread was banned! Yes, I did post it in a couple of other forums, but that was because I thought it was a fairly general topic.

It is true that I also posted this topic in the Blitz3D forums, but you guys have been very helpful and I think I shall download demos of Blitz and DBPro when I get my PC to see which I prefer, and then purchase my favourite (or maybe both).

Thanks again, I'll be back soon, and once again, Sorry Moderators!!!

Nick

Mirthin
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Joined: 13th Oct 2002
Location: Land of the Rising Haggis
Posted: 6th Nov 2002 19:37
You can put general topics in the general talk forum.

This has "Fiasco" written all over it.
indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 7th Nov 2002 03:22
Its ok to talk about them if u try to be objective.
Ive used both and enjoy them for both of thier features.

I got blitz 2d on a magazine here for like $7

I have a demo of Blitz 3d at the momo but adding media from my dwarf game that Ipak made was quite impressive allthough there is a major difference in size with DB and BB as my dwarf was a titan sized dwarf in the castle demo in blitz hehe.

I seem to prefer DBP but thats just my personal exposure having more DB experience and confidence.

I have 8000 lines in DBP with DT so far.
www.lunarpixel.com/dt

latest no media build with bugs
www.lunarpixel.com/dt/DTPB15.zip

I dont see an issue with using another type of computer or program but its the praetorian fanatical bug that sometimes sways our comments, thats the critter thats not welcome in this discussion.

Allthough this place isnt the best place to discuss it and we have been over these rival posts a million times.
It almost warrants a page that has all of these 3d game making systems listed in a table with green squares in boxes for features they have.

This would attract users to look at the sheet and formulate a lot of opinions without needing to ask these questions over n over.

The site that holds the table would be an objective hub of info so ppl can formulate non biased opinions and find out what lang suits them

eg: Imagine u have a lot of java experience and u looked on the table and found that one of the 3d game making programs is in similar syntax, you would add that to your list to try im sure.


Asking Questions to get a jump start or to try and skip a lot of work just wont work.


If u ask on a forum without finding out who gave u the answers then will have no idea on the source of the info.

Download these applications and try them all with objective tests and give them time to sink in, thats the best way to formulate an opinion on what one is best for you

indi is part of Team Lunarpixel
multimedia logisitics and interactive media
Puffy
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Joined: 4th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 7th Nov 2002 03:38
NO FLAMING INDI... AND NO ADVERTISING RAVEY... AND FLAMING... god he was asking a question... =P... i prefer something with a lil more speed... aka assembly & c++... and 3dgamestudio is good for people who know delphi and c++... but db is good for people who are starting out.... =D

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/2.5mbs Sat Con... I joined in!
Ravey
Retired TGC Developer
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Location: Southern TGC Nerve Centre
Posted: 7th Nov 2002 15:12
I fully agree with Indi's post
indi
21
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 8th Nov 2002 03:57
your a tripper puff, cut back on the reply posts mate

indi is part of Team Lunarpixel
multimedia logisitics and interactive media
rapscaLLion
21
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: 8th Nov 2002 04:32
Ya, this belongs in the general forum.
What is not allowed (better check with DBS on this, as I'm just guessing) is non-constructive DB bashing, BB3D glorifying, purposless advertising for other languages and all around general dislike-able topics

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Get the DB Weekly Newsletter at www.dbwn.cjb.net
Glenn
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Location: Norway
Posted: 8th Nov 2002 10:01
Well, the DBPro that is released now is released with Debug Dll's.. When DBS decides to release the non-debug Dll's so we can tell the compiler to make a debug-exe or a release-exe, It will then get an instant speed increase inspite of DX8 or DX9, the core code will simply go faster..

And the SDK are on its way for full... you can write your own functions in C/C++ or even in assembler if you absolutly must have fast code..

You can make great games in many engines, it's your own imagination that decides that (as long as the engine is satifactory that is..)

All these engines are low-cost engines, they cant make wonders like a 250,000$ licenced engine lite LithTec. BUT you can make great games if you have an original idea (that doesn't have to be FPS super shooter etc. with 10,000 FPS) And manages to isolate yourself from the sirculating standard graphics and make your completly own game with you own or even a super hired 3D modeller.

I think the main tar-pit is that in the different communities like Blitz/DB/3D GameStudio/etc. the users are almost unconsciously copying the other users grafix/ideas/game design..

The budget on coder vs. art modellers are maybe 20/80 for a AAA title. just look at all the textures/models/maps that comes with AAA titles.. its enough to totally loose the will to make a game...

And last: I've seen these discussions on what's the best engine around thousands of times... If we all used that time to create something instead of these endless discussions.. I am aware of that it is newcomers that wants to know which is the best engine.. And we all (almost) have tried certainly a dozen of them, and we go back to the ones that suit us best.

Simple, there is no answer of what the best engine is.. people are different and it reflects on the engine-choice..

(Puh a little longer that i actually was supose to write but...)

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