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FPS Creator X10 / Considering purchasing FPSC X10

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Braden 713
17
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Joined: 3rd Aug 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 4th Sep 2009 21:47
Hey guys, I've had X9 for a couple of years now; it's worked fine and dandy, but lately I've been considering upgrading to Vista and FPSC X10 as I have an appropriate videocard to run it. Because it's another $70 though, just a few things I'd like to clarify.

First of all, and an important thing to me, I understand that Model Packs can be used in X10, all of them. Simply I just need the 1.09 update. Now, two things; is that the regular 1.09 update from the FPSC site? And, are there any little tweaks that need to be made to the Model Packs when I install them specifically for X10?

Secondly, I've been reading some of the threads on the X10 board here, and have been rather disappointed to hear the lack of faith many users seem to have in TGC, but what disturbed me more was that it appears that there have been literally no updates for X10. That is certainly something that could make me re-consider buying it, however I am still curious; even with some of the apparent bugs and glitches in X10, and gross lack of updates, overall what is the opinion of the masses? Is X10 worth it, or not right now. I personally think I could live with a few bugs, simply because having X10 over X9 would just been fun; messing around with new and better features. But, again: worth it to upgrade? Or am I like, 100% better to just stick with X9?

I can understand if a question in the form of is it worth it? can be sort of vague, because perhaps it's all just up to the user really, whether they find upgrading worth it or not; however I was just hoping to get a little feed-back on the matter.

If there is anything else someone thinks may be beneficial for me to know, please speak up. I'd love to know everything I could before deciding on this purchase this weekend.

Thanks for all your time

Cheers

Ich will in Beifall untergehen.
Coach Shogun 20
15
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Joined: 27th Feb 2009
Location: In your mind, messing with your thoughts
Posted: 5th Sep 2009 01:42
Quote: "First of all, and an important thing to me, I understand that Model Packs can be used in X10, all of them. Simply I just need the 1.09 update. Now, two things; is that the regular 1.09 update from the FPSC site? And, are there any little tweaks that need to be made to the Model Packs when I install them specifically for X10?"


No, there is no on-line link for v1.09. You have to update it through the editor, but its not that much of a hassle. To get the mature one, you first have to get v1.08 out of your order history then you'll have to update to v1.09. Direct x10.1 is needed.

The only pack (to my knowledge) that needs major modification is MP3. All others will work, but MP9 and MP10 might need some modification to the normal maps of the pickups.

Quote: "Secondly, I've been reading some of the threads on the X10 board here, and have been rather disappointed to hear the lack of faith many users seem to have in TGC, but what disturbed me more was that it appears that there have been literally no updates for X10."


I believe the most recent newsletter stated that work will either begin soon on v1.10, or has already in some way begun. Nevertheless, v1.09 fixed almost everything under the sun for X10. The only problem I've ever encountered was that a segement didn't appear in the test game once, but that was easily worked around.

Quote: " That is certainly something that could make me re-consider buying it, however I am still curious; even with some of the apparent bugs and glitches in X10, and gross lack of updates, overall what is the opinion of the masses? Is X10 worth it, or not right now. I personally think I could live with a few bugs, simply because having X10 over X9 would just been fun; messing around with new and better features. But, again: worth it to upgrade? Or am I like, 100% better to just stick with X9?"


I personally think x10 is worth it, although since I haven't really used x9 or its mods much, I can't judge. X10 is definitely the better product for the long run, as I believe that we will be getting more from the migration (I may be wrong though). Even if we don't, there are still many things you can do in x10 that you can't do in x9. First of being the obvious shader benefits (including segment shaders and relief mapping). Second, being Darkai as a better ai system.

Quote: "If there is anything else someone thinks may be beneficial for me to know, please speak up. I'd love to know everything I could before deciding on this purchase this weekend."


You can't make your own particles yet, or if you can we simply haven't figured out how yet. We're hoping that v1.10 will bring a ray of light on this matter, and fix it up.

You also can't directly make relief mapping work on segments. It's possible, however a work-around is needed. You'll have to talk to Jingle Fett for that (he's essentially the X10 expert).

Some custom media will also need to be worked around, because .tga's no longer work (at least for me) and all textures have to be .dds

Not much else to say, other than that I personally think that x10 is worth it right now, but that's simply my opinion. You'll certainly find that x10 will allow you to make large levels without frame-drop (I know mods can do that too)

With the amount of people asking about x10, there should probably be a chart with all the features of mods, stock x9, and x10 so people can compare without needed to start a new thread. *Goes off to begin work*

Braden 713
17
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Joined: 3rd Aug 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 5th Sep 2009 02:44
Alright thanks for all the heads-ups and pointers there man, you really helped. I'll still wait and see what others have to say, but thanks again for your support.
As for Model Packs 3, 9 & 10 I'm sure it wouldn't be too overly difficult for me to figure out the solution; good to know about those however, so thanks.
And I'm glad to hear that v1.09 really assisted in bringing X10 to it's feet with a lot of things. If and when I do purchase it, I'll also make sure I get v1.08 out of the way, then get 1.09 and DirectX10.1 and so again, thanks for those pointers!

All in all, I am pleased to see some positive feed-back on the matter; also good to know the name of an expert, Jingle Fett certainly sounds like the man to befriend around here hehe.

Sorry for making yet another thread over this topic, just wanted to actually get a grip on the information floating around regarding X10. As long as things continue to go smooth, I should be shifting from the X9 forum to the X10 in a short while here.

Have a great day man.

And I'd love to still hear anything that anyone else has to say

Cheers

Ich will in Beifall untergehen.
Nomad Soul
Moderator
17
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Joined: 9th Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 5th Sep 2009 03:04 Edited at: 5th Sep 2009 03:16
FPSC X10 v109 does resolve a lot of the major issues that have plagued the engine since release so it's an ideal place to start for new users and the first real functional version.

There are still a couple of frustrating issues such as not being able to make custom particle effects and no shadow smoothing for static geometry which is hard to forgive when X9 has it.

FPSC X10 has better graphics (except the lightmapping issue mentioned), better shader support, better AI, better physics, better performance and features which means more potential for your games but given less support than X9.

You will have a lot of fun with X10 and I would say get it. You won't find a better value for money game engine out there and I believe a good game could be developed with v109.

FPSC X10 feels like a more professional engine and much better put together than X9. Everything holds together and performs well and if you put time and effort into taking advantage of the improved graphics you can make a very pretty game.

It could be a serious game engine but will need TGC to listen and respond a bit more often to user support than once a year.
Braden 713
17
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Joined: 3rd Aug 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 5th Sep 2009 03:32
Hey thanks Nomad, I'm glad that I'm actually getting inspiration to buy it, was kind of half-heartedly worried that posting my questions would result in an ambush of negative responses over the X10 version

But I'm glad to hear it man. Over all I'm not too concerned about a lack of ability to make particles or shadow smoothing; although I do see the frustration behind it. Mainly, the decision to buy it will ultimately come down to simply wanting enjoyment out of having it. The ability to just make some cools levels, with good physics and a relatively open slate to paint a gaming world from my imagination - not at all to produce the next Halo or Gears of War. So thanks again for the feed-back.

All in all I think I will indeed purchase the X10 version, just as soon as I can load Vista back onto my PC and get DirectX10.1 on here as well.

Thanks for your guys' time.

Ich will in Beifall untergehen.
Bigsnake
15
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Joined: 7th Apr 2009
Location: England
Posted: 5th Sep 2009 16:53
Quote: " Model Packs 3, 9 & 10"


Just a little heads up, if you have the latest version then mp 3, 9 and 10 should work perfectly


visit home page - http://fpsc.freephpbb3.com/index.php
Windows Vista,ATI Readon HD 4870,AMD Athlon 7750 64 Dual Core,4GB ram
dennisb
18
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Joined: 26th Apr 2006
Location: New York
Posted: 5th Sep 2009 19:35
I agree with most of what is said here. I think it is worth getting x10 for fun factor. I just wouldn't use it if you were planning to make a commercial game at this point due to not many people having the graphics cards and stuff to support it yet. It really is a product ahead of its time. But if you want to make a cool game to share with people who have nice beefed up systems and have a lot of fun making it, I say go for x10.

Braden 713
17
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Joined: 3rd Aug 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 6th Sep 2009 08:53 Edited at: 6th Sep 2009 14:32
Quote: "Just a little heads up, if you have the latest version then mp 3, 9 and 10 should work perfectly"


Oh cool! Thanks man, good to know.

And thanks dennisb; just as soon as I can get my computer upgraded to Vista and DirectX10.1 I will surely be buying FPSC X10. Thanks for the support everyone.

Cheers

==Edit==

Something else I meant to ask regarding a few things; when it comes to the model packs, have newer ones like MP21, MP22 and MP31 been tested out by anyone? Do they work for sure? Just curious, and also, as for X9 purchased items from the GC Store, in my transition to X10 do those all basically become lost causes?

Thanks guys.

Ich will in Beifall untergehen.
Coach Shogun 20
15
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Joined: 27th Feb 2009
Location: In your mind, messing with your thoughts
Posted: 6th Sep 2009 23:51
Quote: "Something else I meant to ask regarding a few things; when it comes to the model packs, have newer ones like MP21, MP22 and MP31 been tested out by anyone? Do they work for sure? Just curious, and also, as for X9 purchased items from the GC Store, in my transition to X10 do those all basically become lost causes?"


I have mp 22, and it works fine. As for the otheres, they should work but IDK.

GC store items should work, unless they use .tga textures. Then the only thing you'll need to do is convert them into .dds. I can't vouch for everything, but I've never had a problem that couldn't be fixed with any custom media.

Jingle Fett
16
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Joined: 20th Dec 2007
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 22:08
Unless you're happy with the lack of updates both now and in the foreseeable future and with the lack of community activity, I do NOT recommend buying X10. It has all the potential in the world (I saw a lot of potential in it when I purchased it) but that potential is being wasted - You're much better off spending a bit more for something more reliable, like the Unity Engine.
I like Unity if only because importing media is unbelievably easy; the art pipeline is much better and incredibly faster...If you use X10 long enough, the little details when importing stuff will really give you a major headache (ex: the smallest change to the files requires you to reset the editor and delete the .bin files). When you're in the game biz, faster development saves a hell of a lot more money (which was another reason I got X10. Unfortunately a lot of time is wasted when importing assets).
Re-using assets is also really hard in X10 (gotta close the editor and re-write the .fpe/.fps remember?)

And I say all that as the "X10 Expert" (I like that title lol )

Nomad Soul
Moderator
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Joined: 9th Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 11th Sep 2009 00:32
FPSC X10 is good value for money and the quickest way to get a half decent looking game together.

The disappointing thing is the potential of FPSC X10 isn't being tapped into because of the lack of support. Its a case of what you buy is what you get.

Will things change after v116 for X9? We'll see
Braden 713
17
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Joined: 3rd Aug 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 16th Sep 2009 05:24
Thanks for the info guys, really appreciated. For now, I think I'm just going to stick with Jingle Fett's advice and keep to plugging away at X9; it's treated me well for the years I've had it. And, over time, I've learned a great many little tricks on how to make some pretty cool things with the engine, and got plenty of generously released media, also bought lots as well. Also, a set back was a lack of spending money for the time being; in the near future, upon being able to purchase X10 I may consider it once again. For now, thanks for all the help everyone. Given me lots to mull over

Cheers

Ich will in Beifall untergehen.

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