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Geek Culture / Projects Area Suggestions Wanted

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 15:09
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Hi all,

By the end of 2003 we want to have the Projects area fully online and functional. In order to achieve this I'm polling you all now as to what functionality you'd like to see present. The way I see this working so far is as follows:

You enter the Projects Manager from your Control Panel where you can create a new Project, Maintain an existing one, Search through your Projects or Delete a Project entirely.

When creating a Project you specify some attributes for it:

Project Title
Type of Project (game, app, demo, DLL, etc)
Intended final status (freeware, shareware, commercial)
Access Level (public, registered members, Buddies, DBDN)
Description of the Project (short summary, 4KB max)
Estimated Release Date (optional.. heh)

Once you've done this the Project itself is created and you can now start adding information to it.

I will allow the attachment of screen shots showing the progress of development. This will be limited in some way, although I'm not yet sure how. I think I will allow a maximum number of shots per Project and any extra can be linked to your own web site.

You can keep an online work log. Basically a development diary, you post what work you've done on your Project and it's date stamped so people can see what has been updated easily.

People can comment on your work log (post questions, mini forum style) which you self-moderate.

When you hit what you consider to be a milestone release you can lock the Project. This will increment the version number ready for the next release but also sign-off (at its current stage) the Project allowing you to upload code for people to access.

Users can then provide feedback on the code itself.

I see the process working something like this.. you create the Project, you update your work log daily (or however often you want to) and when you have the code in a state you're happy with you zip it and upload it, signing off that version. People can then download, test and provide feedback. You continue to work on the code, updating your work log until you're happy with the next release which you again sign-off (uploading the latest version). Doing this purges the old version from our system.

This process continues until you flag the Project as complete. For small Projects this whole process might take a matter of a weekend or it might take months.

The Projects Manager will let you export your Change List so you can include the file with your final release. Each Project will also have a unique URL so that you can give it to people or place it in your documentation so they know where to go for updates or to post a bug report.

Members will be able to "Watch" a Project and receive notification of new work log entries and / or milestones.

As usual Registered Members will have a file size limit on the uploads and DBDNers will get a significant amount more.

Projects will be browsable via the Developers Network site, so you can see "what's new", etc.

In the future I will consider adding support for multi-person Projects (i.e. Team creation with each member submitting assets to the final Project) but that will not happen this year (so don't suggest it please!).

I would like to know what other kind of things you'd like to see this system do / provide.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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IanM
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 15:39 Edited at: 1st Sep 2003 15:40
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Cool ... but I have a few questions and suggestions

What sort of size limits will you be placing on the uploaded zips, and how many versions will you allow?

Will you be able to do an 'executable only' release and keep the code private?


Final Status suggestions:
Public Domain (not the same as freeware, because freeware can have conditions attached)
GPL (must always be GPL and source must be freely available, ie users who use the source in their own projects must always GPL their source)

Access level suggestions:
None - for when you are preparing but not ready for general release
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 16:00
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You can have as many versions as you want, because with each new release you're removing the older version. The logs, comments, etc will all remain, but the file itself will be removed. I'm not interested in a massive archive of old-revision code, I want the latest files available only.

Size Limits - undecided as of yet.

The contents of the release is up to you, it can be an EXE, it can include the source, whatever you want. There is nothing that says you must release the code.

GPL re: status might work, except I was expecting this to be used more for Projects rather than source code releases (do that via CodeBase). So you don't really GPL a game for example, which is what I'm after. But it won't hurt to add it.

A "Private" Access Level will be easy and I'll include it.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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Rob K
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 16:51
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I think that rather than limiting the screenshot no., limit the amount of space available for screenshots. When the space runs out, warn the user and give them the option to delete the oldest screenshots to make room for the new ones.

As a temporary "team" feature, it would be useful if we could set the access level of files to specific users. So we could release executables to all, and source code only to selected users.

It would also be useful if the diary entry page could have all the features of a forum post (code snippets, links to URLs, smilies, varied fonts).

In the forum, maybe a few linking features could be added, eg, a button which allows you to easily insert links in posts to specific diary entries or screenshots.

Other features:
- "Project Team Request" so people can tell others if they would like help with a project (just text saying "3D modeller, AI programing etc.")


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Van B
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 17:09
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Sounds like a really cool addition to the forum Rich, nice one. I just hope it works with totally unplanned projects too - am I the only one who makes it up as he goes along?

The main thing that comes to mind is restricted downloads. I mean you might have an early beta that you don't want everyone ripping to shreds, so you'd get a few users that you know to download it. Perhaps a password protected download option - although you could protect a ZIP file - but if they could'nt even download it without the password it'd save users the bother of wasted downloads.

The other thing is the images, say you allowed each project 1mb for pictures, that's still a lot of JPG's. To keep them in check, could you categorise them? - like have folders for the images like 'Concepts', 'Models', 'Screenshots', '2D (menus, titles etc)'. Some unfortunate souls (like me) are still suffering with 56k, it'd be very useful if it was easy to find the pictures your interested in. Of course the latest attached screenshot should be listed so people can keep up to date easily.


Van-B

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 17:18
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Dont forget versioning.


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MikeS
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 19:38
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Sounds great, I like it. Really seems that it'll get people even more excited about there projects.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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BatVink
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 19:59
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Sounds like a nice feature.

No specific comments, but have you browsed products like Outlook and other PIMs, and sites like SourceForge for ideas? I know Outlook is not awe-inspiring stuff, but it's popular so the basic features must be worth consideration at this stage.

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the_winch
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Posted: 1st Sep 2003 21:10
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Quote: "Intended final status (freeware, shareware, commercial)"


Would be nice to have a freeware with source or some other option to show it includes source code.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2003 06:01
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alpha release - date ( version + link once released )
beta release - date ( version + link once released )
gold/final release - date ( version + link once released )
patch section - version, date, size, fixx list
bug section - known bug list, bug submission

credits section - should have an add thing to create your own table of sorts so it'll read something like

Main Programmers
-- Josh Hardy
-- Robert Lettan
3D Artists
-- Robert Lettan
-- James Arderson

etc...
and all you do is setup the sections & you then update the people working on the project then set them to the sections they worked on.
so would be like

add section <-

and under team member profile you activate that section and thier name would appear there.

thats about all i can think of not already said right now though

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Critters
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2003 19:44
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great idea Rich,
I think there should be all the sections Raven said above + cheats section . I just cant help thinking that the 'projects section' will be filled with 'go no where' projects. Hopefully that wont be the case.

I think there needs to be a space for the company logo that'd be great. Making a file size restriction could be a problem (depending on the restriction) for some big projects, I think people should be allowed to choose where the file is stored, if that hasnt already been mentioned.

Thanks, Martin

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IanM
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2003 02:14
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How about a list of who has downloaded your zip files ... or at least a count of unique user downloads.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2003 13:20
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Yeah you will get download and view stats for your files and Projects, so you can see how many people just look at it compared to download it.

Raven - most those ideas are sound and I'll implement some of them.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we have short-circuited the Universe!"
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Ian T
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2003 17:40
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'I the only one who makes it up as he goes along?'

Heh, heh...

I can't think of anything to add that Raven & Van didn't suggest between them. This'll be a great community feature

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ChipOne
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Posted: 6th Sep 2003 00:16
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rich, i've written quite a bit of gdi+ graphics code for resizing images etc in c# which you're welcome to use if you like. couple this with some directory monitoring services from .NET and this would allow you to have all uploaded images automatically resized to 640x480 jpgs, for example.

lmk if you want the code (maybe through email or sumptin')

-= i only do what my rice krispies tell me to do =-
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ChipOne
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Posted: 6th Sep 2003 00:19
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upgrade the ide to support project admin through something as simple as web browser control. it'd be nice to be able to upload builds through the ide too.

maybe version 2.0 ....

-= i only do what my rice krispies tell me to do =-
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Rob K
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Posted: 6th Sep 2003 01:41
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There probably WON'T be an IDE 2.0 (as in an official update). If there is, it won't be for some time. RGT is dead, and therefore Guy has less interest in maintaining the IDE.


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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 6th Sep 2003 02:02
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Expanding on ChipOne's idea, you could shrink the images to create thumbnail links. This would allow easy navigation of the pictures without putting stress on 56kers by having all the screens, in a section, loading at once.

Brains are for idiots.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 6th Sep 2003 02:05
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You could also have space for a project logo image. Just to make the entries a bit more interesting visually.

Brains are for idiots.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Sep 2003 11:36
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I can use the PHP image functions to generate the thumbnails and that's what I'll do. I also use them to test the 640x480 dimensions.

Cheers,

Rich

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Rwilson
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Posted: 14th Sep 2003 08:14
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This may have been mentioned/suggested (I have a tendency of missing things), some sort of ability to put up design docs. What I mean is, when (some) people are in the intial stage of doing a big game project, say a new Single Player TRPG, they might want opinions on their ideas, such as "Would this type of character be cool?" or "Would this feature be worth it, or would no one liek it?". And, unfortuanetly for some people (Myself included) they are semi surronded by people who either A. Don't play games or B. Only play Sports or Shoot-em-up games, thus getting opinions for such things rather hard.

The size of the desing docs (I beleive) would be the main issue against doing this, and seeing as how I have no idea how much space GameCreators has on their servers or what-naught, It could be a rather big point agaisnt such a feature. However, after adding up the sizes of my oen design docs, I came up with 188 KBs, which could be made smaller if I were to convert from Word docs to simple Text.

While this is certainly not an important feature for some, if not most, It would be nice to have for others who are either in the same position as myself, or simply desire opinions on what they're doing. I know of at least one person who won't do somethings if he thinks no one would appreciate it. Comments and the such ones design docs could be a good boost for one's drive to finish a game, and thus, learn DBPro or Classic to do so.

Sorry if this is a bit long-winded. Hope I don't sound to much of an idiot. Night all.

Regards,
Ryan Wilson
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