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FPSC Classic Models and Media / How to make a map four times bigger...well, kinda

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 06:10 Edited at: 24th Nov 2009 06:44
Okay, so I want to make a racing game in FPSC.
Save your breathe, because I already know that idea is crazy because the maps are size limited. (big for walking but small for vehicles)
However, when working my game's first race car, an idea hit me.
The idea kinda generates from textures, I mean, resizing them.

We know a texture that is 1024x1024 is four times bigger than a 512x512, because we doubled both the width and the height, right?

Well, what if you apply that backwards?

If we scale our models to 50%, then the map appears four times bigger than it was before when compared to the models.

I thought of this when scaling a race car before I added bones to animate the wheels.
If the car is half the size then it needs to go twice as far to get to the end of the map per scale. (both ways, so the map is four times bigger than before like the textures)
Anyway, I went ahead and added the bones and animated them and got the car in game and wrote a script to control it today.
Check it out in the attached video, and yes the wheels turn and roll.
It's not perfect but its a wip...

Edit
Oh yeah, the car is from DarkMATTER1.
No waypoints were used. (it is controlled via keys on keyboard, just like player)

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mAcpo
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 06:15
This is very very cool!! Your concept is very simple and in the end its usually the simple things that work!

Vent
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 06:19
That looks great, nice idea

Cosmic Prophet
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 07:26
This is like playing with a bad..s RC race car. Now how cool is that?

This is fantastic CE. Is there a way to set the players POV to, say just behind the car so it follows the vehicle? With the right sized buildings you could drive around in a decent small scale city.

As always, you continue to amaze, and break the boundries of the norm. Salute!

In the Universe, nothing ever stays the same.
GameRetardo
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 07:33
looking really cool CE. Would be sweet to see some big changes in the style of game making around here. Nice idea.

Game Freak
BlackFox
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 07:33
That video was very impressive. I was showing Cathy and she said "oh cool, a hotwheels car". We both liked it and think you did a great job on the idea. Another avenue being pursued with FPSC. Looking forward to seeing more on your wip.

Cheers

Mike
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 09:58 Edited at: 24th Nov 2009 11:28
Quote: "This is very very cool!! Your concept is very simple and in the end its usually the simple things that work!"

Thanks

Quote: "That looks great, nice idea"

I am sure I'm not the first to think of increasing map size this way, so I can't take the credit for the idea, but thanks.

Quote: "This is fantastic CE. Is there a way to set the players POV to, say just behind the car so it follows the vehicle?"

That is the real challenge, and I have tried before awhile back and failed.
I even resorted to considering using another engine, but I rethunk it and came to my senses.
Now, I have two new methods to explore, so hopefully I will find a work around for it.

Quote: "As always, you continue to amaze, and break the boundries of the norm. Salute!"

You guys are the real artists Cosmic, and my work is nowhere near as amazing as yours, but thanks.
Save the salute for when I get the camera working like we know it should.
One good thing about scaling the car down is that I get a good angle for the 3rd person perspective without having to raise the player/camera.
So, that should help somewhat.

Quote: "looking really cool CE. Would be sweet to see some big changes in the style of game making around here. Nice idea."

Yeah, this will be a nonshooter, and worthy of an 'E for Everyone' rating when I'm done. (if they still have ratings then)

Quote: "That video was very impressive. I was showing Cathy and she said "oh cool, a hotwheels car". We both liked it and think you did a great job on the idea. Another avenue being pursued with FPSC. Looking forward to seeing more on your wip."

Thanks
Most of my projects are perpetual works in progress, as they never reach perfection. (or even come close)

Thanks for the kinds words guys.
Now I feel motivated for the oncoming trial & error of work arounds.
You know I have to use the stock engine for the stock cars, so it should be a nice challenge.

EDIT
Okay, sorry for the extra stuff in this video, but I like to clown around.
I may have failed in the past, but for some reason, I am having better luck this time.
These may be the best results I have ever had with camera simulation in FPSC, so now I am really starting to get my hopes up on this thing.

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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 11:40
good idea, great that you have it working in game. but here is the problem with all of this. the camera will never follow the car like if it where a racing game? right?, if so then we could have 3rd person action in fpsc. well i know someone already added this into a mod. but the camera was all meesed up in that to and you could never get the position right.

DSW
teamhalo
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 12:01
This looks amazing CP, excellent work.
I would love to help you with your game, I can model you various items seen in many racing games, that way you could populate your tracks, I would love to help out in anyway for free so email me if you ever need any.

Great work.
-tony

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 12:02 Edited at: 24th Nov 2009 12:44
Quote: "but here is the problem with all of this. the camera will never follow the car like if it where a racing game? right?, "

Watch the second video? (right above your post)
The camera is following the car, yet you can still turn to the side if you want for any view.
I am still working out a few kinks though, but it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
I'm not shooting for perfection on this, but I am hoping to get some decent results, and this is the best I have so far.
Following a car is alot different than 3rd person with shooter, because of the enemy fire. (car is less complex)

Quote: "This looks amazing CP, excellent work.
I would love to help you with your game, I can model you various items seen in many racing games, that way you could populate your tracks, I would love to help out in anyway for free so email me if you ever need any.
"

Thanks

The Master Dinasty
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 12:53
That is badass you had the same idea is mine, if you cant edit the map size just make the models smaller...

Anyways one thing that woud be cool to see is a "boost" key to it boosting it for like 2 seconds or somthing. or maybe have the player drive the car on "boost" stuff to gain it, oh and also a good idea is that the player picks upp a "weapon" that does 0 damgde and when that is picked upp you gain controll over the vehicle!


-Massap2

Beacause massa is the master!
xplosys
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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 13:48 Edited at: 24th Nov 2009 14:19
Very cool. I do hope at some point they allow us to change the camera height in vanilla FPSC, making the idea of a 4x size, first person level possible. Imagine the quality textures we can achieve when items are half size or less and textures remain 1024x1024. For now, the idea of a third person, 4x size level is intriguing.

Of course, the players speed would need to changed as well.

Brian.

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Posted: 24th Nov 2009 21:41 Edited at: 25th Nov 2009 03:54
Quote: "That is badass you had the same idea is mine, if you cant edit the map size just make the models smaller..."

Yeah, it is a very simple idea really so I know others had thought of this as well, and that is why I can't take credit for it.

Quote: "Of course, the players speed would need to changed as well. "

Yeah, but luckily we already have that option in vanilla, which is what I had to do.
I doubled the car for testing. (didn't want it too fast so you could see that the wheels are in fact turning (3x rocks))
I had to make sure the player was set higher, so the car could not pull away. (it still does when I hit the boost though, so that is one of the kinks I am working on.

Quote: "Anyways one thing that woud be cool to see is a "boost" key to it boosting it for like 2 seconds or somthing. or maybe have the player drive the car on "boost" stuff to gain it, oh and also a good idea is that the player picks upp a "weapon" that does 0 damgde and when that is picked upp you gain controll over the vehicle!"

You may not have noticed it, but in the first video you can see that it is already set up for two speeds.
Right now I call the two speeds, slow and go, but they are not intended for a boost though.
I think I will make the challenge a time based one that involves avoiding the other driver's and having to drive "clean" in order to finish. “In Order To Finish First, One Must First Finish”
I do not intend to have any weapons of any kind for this game. (I guess you could consider the car a weapon, but that would be using it for purposes other than its intended use)
The idea of using FPSC for non-shooter games has always appealed to me, even though I never really pursued it until now.

I animated the cars wheels for 5 different speeds and one idle for all three states. (straight, left, right)
That came to about 300 frames so far, and at this point does not include a reverse. (I can put in a reset to track center for manual corrections though)

The next challenge (after the camera is done) is to create the AI for the other racers, which should be even more challenging.
For that I am planning on using entities instead of markers and placing four at each point.
That will establish lanes for the track and allow for a more realistic experience since the others drivers will be drifting between lanes.
Sort of like so....

Lanes

A - B - C - D

A car in lane A or lane D only has to options for lane changing, go straight or drift to the one lane next to it.
A car in lanes B or C has three options, go straight or drift to one of the two lanes next to it.
That will prevent crazy driving from A to D, which would have them all over the track.
With that set up for random lane change, and also based on collision, there will be a whole lot of bumping going on.

Those entity markers should also allow for detecting the direction of the cars for "wrong way" warnings and car placement corrections.
They will also be the basis for an overhead minimap for displaying each cars location on the track. (color coded of course)
Each car will also need to be scripted separately instead of sharing the same AI, so they will appear to have individual driving techniques instead of all driving the same way.
I may simplify that to three types for the initial demo of Aggresive, Normal, and Passive, and then expand on them later when I have more time. (Bobby Labonte FTW)
All these things are basic to most racing games, so this will be nothing special other than the fact that it will be a non-shooter with vehicles made with the stock engine.

Thanks for the kinds comments everyone, and I will keep you posted on the progress here, but I'll wait to make it's own thread until I have demo ready.
I just wanted to share the thought of scaling down to create the illusion of a larger map for those who had not thought of it yet.



   Conjured Entertainment

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Leaning Objects To The Side
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 00:38
OMG..WOW..Conjured Entertainment, i knew if anyone can pull something like this off, it would be you! it's the next step in man kind.. btw..Awesome videos! I can't wait to see what you come up with next. keep up the good work. i hope you have a Great day.

Cheers,
Tanya.
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 03:54
This is a great idea. Looks just great.

You could certainly mix levels with different scale using this technique. Opens all sorts of potential.
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 04:03
Quote: "I can't wait to see what you come up with next. keep up the good work. "

Thanks Tanya

Quote: "You could certainly mix levels with different scale using this technique. Opens all sorts of potential."

Yeah, that suggestion earlier to add weapons would be great for this map trick with some other vehicle.
I imagine adding a flak could get a decent tank rolling around ready for action.
A tank would actually be the best vehicle to do since it can turn on a zero radius. (rotate, no reverse)
You could even animate the tracks right, so that one side would turn slower when turning.
Not sure about the turret though, as far as aiming and shooting one way while traveling in another direction.
But with a straight gun using the tracks to aim, it should work fine.

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The Master Dinasty
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Posted: 25th Nov 2009 14:30 Edited at: 25th Nov 2009 14:32
I dont think you got my idea right, I was thinking that you start the player (with no weapons) and then the player can find the "controller" (that woud be actully be a weapon entity) to the RC vehicle and then pick it upp and then gain controll over the RC ...

Like you see it from a first person view with the controller (if you get what i mean) Like on a rc race track so you coud follow the car around while seing that when you change your left,right side driving you woud see the "hand" on the "Controller" move...

Also how does the collison work when the car is on a jump?

And also i think the tank woud be awfully hard to do since there are atleast 2 moving parts the tank body, and barrel.
But if you have a mod it might be done...

How are you going to make the finish line for the RC and be able to put in a score list? EXAMPLE: CAR 1 , 2 , 3 and the players RC in a list like 1st,2nd,3rd,4th
And forgod sake dont forget to make a timer, that counts how many seconds you have spent completing the course.

Youre ideas are looking good so far, keep us posted!


-Massap2

Beacause massa is the master!
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 07:57 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 18:44
Quote: "Also how does the collison work when the car is on a jump?"

I don't have jumps, and the collisions are a wip as their Main AI is still being developed.

Here is a video showing 4 cars all running the same AI, and with minimal checkpoints.
So, they may turn a bit choppy, but this is only a test track, hence the simple construction.
I am just trying to get the player controls down, and now I can reposition the camera whilst still "tracking" the path of the car.

Quote: "And forgod sake dont forget to make a timer, that counts how many seconds you have spent completing the course."

Yeah, I like timers.
I will probably use multiple timers to track minutes and seconds for the lap times and finish times for each car. (only the top 3)
Anyways check it out but keep in mind that the cars had to be slowed down because FRAPS caused just a little lag for the player.
What was working fine in game did not work when recording and the car kept losing the camera.
So, I slowed them down because of that, but just know it works much faster when not recording it.

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Sandante
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 11:01
Great work!! it's not realy an original idea in FPSC world, but the way you have done this is awesome, especialy the other cars that are driving.

You have a nice project there with alot of possibilities, and i hope the see more, so good luck with this!!

Guys like you make this engine worth playing!!!

The Master Dinasty
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 14:54 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 15:04
Looking good!If the cars goes by waypoints maybe you can have a random system.For example: You have 3 of the same map, but the cars have different waypoint system on each of the maps.
So it woud seem like they had real "AI" making diffrent routes. Just a thought, but there is really no other way to fake "AI" other then a waypoint system right?(By stock engine)

One thing that could be cool is a garage.
You let the player (NOT RC) roam "freely", So he coud go to a counter and choose wich map to load,and change his cars "appearence" and buy/sell cars.But you cant load a diffrent map within a map with the stock engine right?

Maybe you could have just 1 map.And just use a load/unload script, but then you would need to change between player view and RC view.
Just a thought....

A garage woud be awsome!Please correct me or ask what i ment i do write fast when i am brainstorming!
Keep posting i like youre idea.

EDIT: If the 3 first of the top racers finish and there are (let say) 6 cars and the player gets on the 5th place. You must still have to show what time the player used and not just the top 3. if you asked me i woud gone with having a timer for every car, that would take alot more time scripting but i think it would be worth it. But then you would have like 12 timers.



-Massap2

Beacause massa is the master!
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 19:36 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 19:44
Quote: "Great work!! "

Thanks, it's getting there.

Quote: "Guys like you make this engine worth playing!!!"

Only one guy can take the credit for that; Lee Bamber!
He is the genius who created FPSC, so whatever I do with it couldn't have been done without him.

Quote: "Looking good!If the cars goes by waypoints maybe you can have a random system."

Thanks
They already do, but I call them "checkpoints" instead, because they are entities and not waypoint markers.
They are changing lanes randomly and it is what they are doing in the video. (all are using the same script, but you can see they travel their own path)
All four cars are starting in a straight line, but one goes to the outside while the other three go to the inside on the first turn.
Then we can see the drift as two of those three shift to the outside, whilst the gold car pushes towards the inside.
They continue to change lanes as they go around, but for file size sake on the video, I cut it short.
They are not changing much, because as I said, I am using minimal checkpoints right now during testing.

Quote: "One thing that could be cool is a garage.
You let the player (NOT RC) roam "freely", So he coud go to a counter and choose wich map to load,and change his cars "appearence" and buy/sell cars.But you cant load a diffrent map within a map with the stock engine right?"

No I can't change that in game, and I can't change the texture on the cars in game because AltTexture doesn't work on characters, which is what the cars are set as.
I was thinking of making an external launcher (written in DBPro) for the game that would allow for customizing the cars texture.
But that is optional and has to wait, because it may be to time consuming to do right away.

Quote: "EDIT: If the 3 first of the top racers finish and there are (let say) 6 cars and the player gets on the 5th place. You must still have to show what time the player used and not just the top 3. if you asked me i woud gone with having a timer for every car, that would take alot more time scripting but i think it would be worth it. But then you would have like 12 timers."

I don't plan on having more than 8 cars total on the track.
I'll probably end up using one timer and just read it as each car crosses the finish line to store the value in a variable for that car.

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fallen one
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 19:45 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 19:45
perhaps youtube these videos, also you need a screenshot, or its naughty step time.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 20:15 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 20:59
Quote: "perhaps youtube these videos, also you need a screenshot, or its naughty step time"

It is on youtube, but for some reason, the forum won't let me link it.
I only need a screen shot if I am posting media, which I am not.
I am posting videos as a screenshot, and there is no sense in posting a screenshot of a video creating a double post for the same image.
At 30 frames a second and since 53 of the 65 seconds is in game, then you technically have around 1590 screenshots in the video.
But here you go, a screenshot of an image from the video...

EDIT
Scary screenshot replaced (watch the video for it)

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heltor
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 20:48 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 20:49
thats the scariest screenshot I ever saw............lmao
excellent idea conjured

"our only limitation is your Imagination" - heltor
fallen one
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 21:11
I did a search
is this you?
Machinimator
Born To Be Wild - Racing in FPSC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79RjGoA-4CU

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 21:28 Edited at: 26th Nov 2009 22:06
Quote: "I did a search
is this you?
Machinimator"


"yeah yeah, that's me" ....Tuco... The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly

I do not want link to my YouTube stuff from here anymore anyway, because Slippery Pete can sometimes be inappropriate for family values.

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heltor
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Posted: 26th Nov 2009 21:35
Great videos.....lol very nice race footage Great work Conjured

"our only limitation is your Imagination" - heltor
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 29th Nov 2009 07:10 Edited at: 30th Nov 2009 02:34
Quote: "Great videos.....lol very nice race footage Great work Conjured"

Thanks, I'm glad you like it!

That mention earlier about 12 timers got me thinking..(I know, it's all downhill now on a sidetrack)
What if I had more than eight cars?
What if there were twice that many?
Would it lag bad with an open map track?

I've been working on sounds and car textures (not shown) and tweaking the physics settings.
So, I said, whatever, and I put in 16 cars other than the one I'm controlling. (on a full map track in an open map)
It shows it drop to 23-24 FPS, but that is because I was recording it.
It got 28-29 FPS when Fraps was off, which is acceptable, but I could offer a choice for players with lower specs. (8 or 14 racers)

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