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3 Dimensional Chat / the dpi debate with 3d models

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indi
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Posted: 28th Sep 2003 12:05
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Hello pro 3d artists,

Just recently, Ive started to create my own 3d media with a serious gusto.
Having no formal training in this facet of design leads me to a few questions.


I know that its safe to assume web graphics are good to go at 72dpi.
This is beacause the delivery method is just on the monitor and hence any more dpi is a waist of data.

(1) Is this the norm for 3d model textures as well?

I looked at some dpi settings from my previous modeller to find varying dpi setups from 96 to 150.

I would imagine anything above 72 is a waist of texture data.

Who can tell me more regarding this.

(2) Is it a case of if I wanted a slightly better look i can raise the Dpi a bit from 72?.

Im currently using bmp to begin with but will eventually move over to dds files if required and or png combinations after most models are setup and ready.

http://www.lunarpixel.com
It's already tomorrow in Australia
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ssj3_shadow
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Posted: 28th Sep 2003 12:40
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72 pixels per inch does stop redundant data, but a good standard (the one i use for all 3d game creating, not just texturing is 96 pixels per inch, i think trhat is the standard in VB 6, but it also depends how high rez u want the textures.

thats my 2 cents

w00t -what does it mean?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Sep 2003 13:17
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Quote: "(2) Is it a case of if I wanted a slightly better look i can raise the Dpi a bit from 72?."


graphics for games work based on the Px sizes, at multiples of 2x
raising the dpi would be a bit pointless, because all it would achieve is a larger version of the picture exported.

512x512 @ 72dpi raised to 96dpi would produce a 768x768 image.
graphics cards understand one thing and thats Pixels, although they use a form of floating dpi to render they still need a set base to work from - and although you could create a format to take advantage of the enhanced dpi at each resolution, you would have to think carefully about this because more dpi = more memory needed - and at header resolutions your already using more memory per frame.

you always have to work within the parameters of your minimum system specs so people with that hardware can still use the game.

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Simple
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Posted: 28th Sep 2003 16:01
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QUOTE:
512x512 @ 72dpi raised to 96dpi would produce a 768x768 image. ... RUBBISH !!

A 512x512 image @ 72dpi will produce an image size of 768K in RAM ( NOT a 768x768 image if raised to 96dpi )

A 512x512 pixels image @ 72dpi will be 768K in RAM ... BUT, 7.034x7.034 inches in printerble size.

A 512x512 pixels image @ 96dpi will also be 768K in RAM ... BUT, will be 5.312x5.312 inches in printerble size.

And thats if the image is first produced in 72dpi and then raised to 96dpi OR just produced at 96dpi

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wednesday
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Posted: 29th Sep 2003 04:05
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All arguments aside I think it's correct to say that dpi is not relevant for computer graphics.

All that matters is it's size in pixels.

Dpi, Lpi , width and height (in inches) or any other way of determing resolution are just conventions for helping pre-press people doing printwork.

Dpi and width and height are important if you are going to publish something, and what you need them to be depends on your output.

It's confusing because when you create a new document in photoshop, it can be defined in several ways.

Just create the document using the number of pixels you need (i.e 256x256) and everything will be cool.

And never change the size of your image by changing the dpi. Always determine the new size by typing it in as pixels (using the image size comand in photoshop for example).

Basically what I'm saying is Raven is right. I just thought I'd clarify it a bit.
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indi
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Posted: 29th Sep 2003 08:26
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lol. that hardly answers my question.

Thanks for trying all but,
Im going to ask a real professional who worked on farscape and moulon rouge. I know an artist on UT2004 as well so ill ask them as well.

Cheers, amusing replies to say the least.

btw gday simple nice to see you around still.

http://www.lunarpixel.com
It's already tomorrow in Australia
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wednesday
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Posted: 29th Sep 2003 10:07 Edited at: 29th Sep 2003 17:23
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I looked at my post again and realised I came across a bit harsh.

I stand by what I said earlier.
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Sep 2003 12:51 Edited at: 29th Sep 2003 12:54
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I've never really gotton the whole DPI thing, but it plays a massive part in 2D art, and 2D art apears in 3D on screen - the point being that you have to be logical to ensure your texturing looks it's best. Personally I think that keeping your UV maps in good proportion to the 3D size is the only real way to keep things in check. I mean you'll use 512x512 or 256x256 texture maps, so that sorta removes DPI control from you, you just gotta plan your texture map well.
The next model I do will be for the compo - a little soldier dude, and I've decided that I'm gonna peel the mesh off and flatten it out in the modeller so I can simply plain map it (imagine peeling an orange then drawing all over the skin, then putting the skin back on - viola!, instant orange with a smilie face). This is a weird approach, but I'm thinking about how much time I waste UV mapping. Anyway, this approach might help you keep the DPI at it's optimum, because everything is already in scale. It's a damn site easier to organise a model than a UV map . I plan to plain map, then save and load the UV data from each unrolled mesh onto it's 3D counterpart. Don't know if it'll work perfectly, but I'm prepared to vertice edit my orange peel back into shape if I need to.


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
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WindTech
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Posted: 29th Sep 2003 13:02
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As far as I know DPI when used in terms of Photoshop and other image editing software n' what not only effects how it comes out of your printer... adjusting the DBI for textures for a 3d model will only change the actual image resolution. My 2 cents...all be it they've already been said ;p

Live as if to die tomorrow...
Learn as if to live forever.
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Simple
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Posted: 29th Sep 2003 14:25 Edited at: 29th Sep 2003 14:26
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Yo Indi .... yup, still around I've been on and off line a bit lately cos of my house move and stuff. Should get back to normal soon

Image Resolution
An image is composed of small squares known as pixels. An image with smaller pixels means it contains more of them, and it therefore has a higher resolution, displays more detail, and is a larger file size than an image with bigger pixels. Image resolution is the number of pixels per unit of length of an image, and it is usually measured in pixels per inch (ppi).

Monitor Resolution
Monitor resolution, which is the number of pixels per unit of length on a monitor, is usually measured in dots per inch (dpi). The resolution of PC monitors is approximately 96 dpi.

Printer Resolution
The printer resolution is the number of ink dots per inch a laser or imagesetter printer produces. With laser printers that have a resolution of about 300 to 600 dpi, you will generally get good results with images from 96 to 150 ppi.
When working with commercial printers, you may also hear the term screen frequency. This is the resolution, measured in lines per inch (lpi), of the halftone screens used to reproduce the images. When you are scanning color or greyscale images intended for commercial printing, the general rule is to scan them at 1.5 to 2 times the screen frequency of the printing device.

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indi
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Posted: 30th Sep 2003 03:36
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well the definitive answer from someone whos in the industry as a 3d professional is 72 is fine and anything above it is really not required.

there were a few more tips which I shall not reveal but 72 is the answer.

I had an incorrect file format so Im going to switch over.

thanks for trying kids it all helps.

http://www.lunarpixel.com
It's already tomorrow in Australia
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