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Work in Progress / KO Eleven - Kick Off Remake !

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 5th Dec 2010 18:27
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Hi all !
A few days ago, I've started a remake of Kick Off in DBPRO.
Kick Off, the king of the football games in the 90s.
For the moment, I can use a team and the two goal keepers. Each player can pass the ball, kick. Corners and outs of bounds are yet here. Goadlkeepers can dive and stop the ball..
My goal is to make this game working at a good rate even on slower pcs, and to make a game with network.
I'm going to add tacklings and headings tonight. After that, I'll put the second team on the field and free kicks.
I post a video link. Sorry for the bad quality of the image : I've recorded it with my camrecorder on my tv
Sorry for my bad english...
Hope you enjoy
[href]null[/href]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn6MUlll_7I

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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 6th Dec 2010 01:49 Edited at: 6th Dec 2010 01:52
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Quote: "Hope you enjoy "

i do! looks like players are running a little too fast, even for an arcade game, but until we can demo it, i'll hold that thought.

i do hope you plan on adding game-pad support from the get-go

also, we can embed youtube vids now: ie, {youtube}dn6MUlll_7I{/youtube}

change the {} to [] above to embed

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 6th Dec 2010 09:16
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Thanx !
On the video, and for the moment, players are running with the maximum speed. Their speed will depend of personnal skills that I'll add, so most of players won't run so quickly.
I use two pad buttons for this game : one for passing and tackling, one for shooting and heading.
Thanx for the youtube tip

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Ermes
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Posted: 6th Dec 2010 11:48 Edited at: 7th Dec 2010 15:03
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player manager... this is the real big soccer game ever released!!!!

remember.. player manager...player manager...player manager...

advice: slow down player speed.

make a button let the player autodirect to the ball. so no more circling around the ball and the oppo cpu player come and take the ball without any effort.



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 6th Dec 2010 20:15
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@Ermes :
Yes player manager!!! )
I'll slow down the players speed, don't worry
And it's a good idea for the autodirect button. I should think about it, even it's a prt of fun of the original kick off was the difficulty to move sometimes your player around the ball
I'll post a new video tomorrow I hope.
Oh, last thing : aftertouch is already here and replays are available ^^

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Ermes
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 15:04
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oh yes, the thing you offer as a feature, the difficulty to get to the ball, it was the pain in the ass of all the KO games.



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 18:25
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I see what you mean... I'll find a solution to add an autodirect button without making controls too easy.
I'll put a demo of what I've done this week, so you'll be able to see what must be improve in the control of the players

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Ermes
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 20:23
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great, i can't wait to test it!!!



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 21:02
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Thanx to you ! It would be cool to have your point of view to improve my game during its creation Even if your country and mine are not very friends in football

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 23:01
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Okay for the moment we have :
1) Players run, following a 4 3 3 strategy
2) Possibility to kick and control the power of the kick
3) Aftertouch to give effect to the ball
4) Make a head by jumping
5) Sliding
6) Out of bonds
7) Corners
8) Goalkeepers diving if necessary. For the moment, they don't keep the ball in hands, they just throw it away when they got it
9) I've decreased the speed
10) Oh ! Passing is already ok

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Ermes
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 00:49 Edited at: 8th Dec 2010 01:01
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well, Italy and France didn't play so good in the last world cup.

if you're meaning about 2006... Zidane .. Materazzi...



don't worry, as you can see, they're friends!!!!



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 21:13
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A WIP demo !!
I'll be happy to read your comments, advices and bug reports about the gameplay... It's my priority for the moment before music, graphics and background.
Here are some comments :
1) Screen resolution is 800X640X32 in this demo.
2) One team on the field but the two keepers are here.
3) The keepers don't keep the ball : they throw it away when they touch it.
4) Joypad control for the player with the red bar.
5) Button 1 to passe. Hold it and release it when your player is pointing the player you want to pass.
6) Button 2 to kick. Press it as long as you want the shot to be powerful. Press it before touching the ball because the player will kick it as soon as he touches it.
7) Button 2 to make a head or takle. Push buton 2 once.
8) Corner and out of bound : joypad to control the direction(up and down for the corner kicks) and button 2 to throw it or kick it. Press as long as you want it powerful.
9) Aftertouch when kicking : left ,right, up, down to slide to give effect. It depends of the direction of the player.
10) A corner kick is given always when the ball is behind the goal line.
I think that's all for the moment.
Thanx again to those who will download it and give their opinion about my project, even if they are italian
Hope you'll enjoyt it!
[href]http://membres.lycos.fr/Starbuzzz/Kick Off Eleven WIP.zip[/href]

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Ermes
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 23:04 Edited at: 10th Dec 2010 23:14
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well, i'm downloading, even if it is a game of a french!

edit: ehm, it's is possible the rar is incomplete? 6mb but rar says me is broked.



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 23:07
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Thanx my friend

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Ermes
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 23:15 Edited at: 10th Dec 2010 23:24
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no no, it isn't working for me, it's a broked rar.
RE-EDIT: trying with a download manager. i think it's my fault.


NO: broked RAR.



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 23:20
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Erf.... I'll repost it

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 23:39
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It's my fault
I'va got a problem by transfering my rar file
I'm trying again pfffff

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 23:59
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http://membres.lycos.fr/Starbuzzz/Kick Off Eleven WIP.rar

Hope it'll work

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Ermes
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Posted: 11th Dec 2010 16:47 Edited at: 11th Dec 2010 17:06
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ahhhh those french men.....

1) only you know keys to use to play the game. i pressed space and it halted on the midfield. i closed the game and say to it goodbye.
usb gamepad isn't working actually. used arrowkey to move, but i have no idea how to kick/pass.

2) players are too fast,and are all fast the same.

3) i always fight to control the ball, and this is no good,(i played player manager for about 10 years, and i've it on my pc under emulation) so let me say this:
let the player have a minimum of aid when control the ball.
you tested this game hundred of times, you know how control it. but it's really hard.

4) i think too many player's shadows on the field.

those are the bad things.

the good it is on the road to be a real kick-off game!!!!
don't lose intrest on this game, it cam be one of the best soccer game ever made! (no,for me fifa and pes aren't soccer game)



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 11th Dec 2010 18:17
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1) Space is the key for replays... I forget to remove it... I thought no one will press it... sorry...
2) Joypad is working here. Do you put it on the usb port after launching the game ? If not, remove "analog" on the pad. I don't know why but if "analog" is on on my pad, players run like crazy men :s
3) Players are the same speed because they have all the same speed level. This level will depend of each player... But for the moment, they all have the maximum speed.
4) Yes I think about the aid to go to the ball. Don't worry about that
5) What's the problem whith shadows ?
Please try with the pad again : it seems to me very strange cause I've tested the game with two different pads and they're working well...
I promise you that in the next demo it'll be more playable
Thanx again

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Ermes
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Posted: 11th Dec 2010 20:27
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well, i've a 10 buttons gamepad, and there is no way to work with your game. include a keyboard control system.

then, shadows around the players, 8 directions shadows, it's like your soccer players are standing on a shadowed daisy!



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 21:45
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Hi !
Oki, this first demo was not the best... But it was the first WIP...
For the second i'll release this week-end, I'll add a keyboard control system. But it's strange that your pad isn't working Ermes...
Today, and after removing a lot of bugs, i've add the second team on the field... The IA isn't working but players take their position according to the ball position. (You could see that on the scan on the right of the screen.)
I've slowed(again) the players speed but I've changed the ball control : now the ball is "sticking" to the player but not all the time. So, it's more easy to turn with the ball at this speed...
I've reduced the number of polys of the players by 2 to gain a better FPS at all time(I want to let it turn at 50 fps to the goal of having a net game available.)
Tomorrow i'll work on some litte anim bugs and on the computer AI cause I need a AI to work on this : I can't write the code with a second player on my left to test it... It's not very easy to really know how I have to code the AI but, at least, I hope to see the pc being a good opponent in my program
And to finish, thanx again Ermes for your advices
Here is a second video


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Ermes
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 23:42 Edited at: 14th Dec 2010 23:53
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well, i'm glad to help! then, you may try to download fraps, so you can use videocapture instead of an external cam.

it plays like kickoff for real!

waiting to test... and, BTW, it is possible in your game to make fouls? do you plan to add referee? can i hit someone with my head?
offsides? lots of things.

advice: use indicators like little stars down the players bar, to indicate skilled players. example,3 gold stars are for DEL PIERO, 2 gold stars are for CHIELLINI, and so on, sorry mate but you know french players can't have stars but ...

about PC AI, kick off was really dumb, the same path, the closest player runs toward the ball and tackles, then runs to the oppo area and rnd(something) pass, cross or shot. plus some rnd path about moving on its side and shot, or making some ridiculous dribbling path. then, pass or shot. easy.

one thing: you posted the demo the same day you joined TGC forum. i see you have some good shot under your keyboard, and i would ask what have you done before of this KO WIP.



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 00:14
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"can i hit someone with my head?" lol
"it plays like kickoff for real! "
==> thanx alot
Fouls ? Yes of course ! But I'll not add free kicks before the rest... Players can takle already and push the ball away.
Referee ? Yes : it's easy to code a referee : move him to follow the ball at a reasonnable distance.
Indicators will be here too, but for the moment, all players have the same caracteristics, so it's not important yet. (I will add a trashcan under Italian players ! niak ! niak!)
Offsides ? I hope so but only if it destroys not the gameplay : I don't want to see each action cut by a whistle, and I don't want to see players waiting behind the defense line to avoid offsides.
For the AI, i will make a very simple code for the beginning. The important for me is to be able to play against the pc and see bugs, errors, etc...
"i see you have some good shot under your keyboard"
Thanx ! I'm 38 and I've learned BASIC on an amstrad cpc... In the 90s I've got an Amiga and I've programmed in AMOS basic. I've made a lot of games... In fact, the beginning of games because I was changing my mind every week and so I was always starting something new before finishing the previous one...
I made the same thing with DB Pro But it's because of my other passion : computer graphics. But I've always wanted to do a soccer game, an ELITE type game(and I've seen yout project that is very interesting...) or a Wing Commander Game.
I've made with DB pro some little applications for my job : I'm a math teacher. Last year I've made a table hockey game to play by net connection. All the little tests I've made, the shorts programms helped me to program my Kick Off game ! When it'll be done, because this one will be done, I will see for an Elite game. I've already made some little things this summer to compute a 3d starship battle.
My goal with KO Eleven will be to organise a KICK OFF league with the students of the high school where I work. A few years ago, I've organised a PES league, but I'had to bring my PS3 every week for the matches
The players meshes are done with 3D Studio max, and came frome basketball players I've made last years for a NBA JAM remake
I forget it because of the official remix on PS3...

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Dr Tank
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 03:15
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I'm not big on football games, but this looks really cool. I imagine the mechanics are quite complicated, but they look good, and the graphics are really nice.

The shadows are inconsistent if you have the 8-way "stadium style" lights on players, and single direction shadows for everything else.
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Ermes
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 13:20 Edited at: 15th Dec 2010 13:22
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yes, avoid 8 way shadow!

then, how funny, i'm 37 and i started use basic at 10 with a c64, then amos amiga, yes, for some way feels better than dbc or dbpro,
later pc with dbpro.

i made some complete games, about 4, and about 100 unfinished projects.

you say you want to make a 3d starship battle game.... well i have one complete to release!!! and again, how funny, my next work will be a player manager remake.

and about your passion for computer graphics... well i'm a designer and i work all the time with photoshop, coreldraw, illustrator, 3dmax.

well, i can pass over the fact you are a french... you have got all my admiration old bean!



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 13:36
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"well, i can pass over the fact you are a french" lol

"yes, avoid 8 way shadow!"
"The shadows are inconsistent if you have the 8-way "stadium style" lights on players, and single direction shadows for everything else. "
Lol, the shadows are really a big problem in my program ^^
I'll change the shadows, I swear you ! lol

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Ermes
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 13:43 Edited at: 15th Dec 2010 13:43
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no, shadows aren't a problem at all, it's only an advice.
you can use those shadows and the game will not be affected for sure of that.
but if you place in the options "use 8way daisy style shadows" i will select "NO".



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 18th Dec 2010 20:59
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Hi !
First : SHADOWS are changed ! ^^ lol
I've worked on the AI these last days... It's not perfect and I've discovered a lof of little bugs in my program : playrs running withour moving, ball rebounding on nothing... erk...
So I'm working hard to improve all !
The good news is that I'm on hollidays and before christmas I'll have a lot of time to work on it... I hope to post a playable demo(with keyboard commands available of course Ermes ) against the PC ^^


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Ermes
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Posted: 19th Dec 2010 02:28 Edited at: 19th Dec 2010 02:28
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ehi marrant, mail me and i will reply with something you can avoid to use your handycam...



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 19th Dec 2010 14:09 Edited at: 19th Dec 2010 14:10
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I'm always working on the AI and I'm always looking for the bugs^^
So, no other video for the moment or demo, but because I'm a nice guy, even if I'm french, here is the picture of the "strategy" maker (vey inspired by the one from Player Manager )

I think I'll add some others possibilities during a game : offensive pression on the field, defensive position, etc...

Starbuzzzz

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 28th Dec 2010 22:11
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Hi !
Hope that christmas was cool for everybody
Just a little word to say that my program is still going on
Some bugs to fix but globaly a match can be played against the pc... AI is still not perfect but it's only the beginning.
Hope to post a video tomorrow(if I can use Fraps without slowing my game at 5 fps :S) and a demo at the beginning of 2011 ^^
Cheers ! Logo is here



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Starbuzzzz
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some pictures ^^









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Ermes
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Posted: 29th Dec 2010 19:14
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oh well, i'm happy you finally moved on fraps!!!

BTW, very nice shots. waiting to play the new demo. i like a lot this game.



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 19:37
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Happy new year 2011 to all of you !
I join to my wishes a new demo of my game !
Just some details about it:
1) There's no fouls and, so, no free kicks and penalty yet.
2) Control by joypad(if it works) or keybaord : arrows to move, control key for button 1 and shift key for button 2
3) Kicks with, heads and takles with button 1
4) Passe by holding button 2
5) Aftertouch with moves keys
6) On corner and throw win, power with button 1
7) On the kicks, holding button 1 to get more power
8) The goalkeepers throw the ball by themselves(no needs to presse something)
9) The read team is controled by you, the yellow team by the pc
10) The AI is not yet very improved...
11) No timer, no scoreboard... Press ESCAPE to quit the demo
Hope you'll enjoy and hope the zip file is not broken :S


http://membres.lycos.fr/starbuzzz/KO_Eleven.zip

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Ermes
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2011 23:49 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2011 23:51
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ok downloading.

edit: site in construction, and spoked in french.



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 00:36
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Oops sorry

[href]membres.multimania.fr/starbuzzz/KO_Eleven.zip[/href]

Happy new year Ermes

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Ermes
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happy new year Starbuzz!



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 01:24
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Is the download working my italian friend ?

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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 03:28
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Quote: "membres.multimania.fr/starbuzzz/KO_Eleven.zip
"

the zip is corrupt

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 08:17
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Hummmm... My ftp provider is making me nervous grrrrr
Try again please, I've just test it at home and it seems to work this time.....

[href]membres.multimania.fr/starbuzzz/KO_Eleven.zip[/href]

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Ermes
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 12:01
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you are really unlucky with these zips!!!



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 17:51
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It doesn't work ? grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 18:57
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Humm... I've tryed this one and it works for me :

[href]membres.multimania.fr/starbuzzz/KO_Eleven.rar[/href]

I'm desperate ((((

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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 21:45
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As I don't trust my server, here is another link to my wip demo :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ouppc76elbhcd77/KO_Eleven.rar

Please tell me that one of my file is working :S

Thx

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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 23:36
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the mediafire file works fine.

no gamepad functionality for my logitech rumblepad, unfortunately.

otherwise, it played fine on keyboard. i didn't realize this was 3d until now (from the vids, i thought 2d) and that was a bonus

the shadows are a little odd (maybe a little more transparent to simulate surrounding ambient light/lights) and the whole lighting situation is too dark, in my opinion. it may just be the field image you're using. some big shadows there built-in/baked into the image. non-issue really but i think it's a little too much.

play is gonna take a little getting used to since the player basically passes to himself instead of dribbling and it was easy to give up the ball, and often.

i just gave it a quick run and enjoyed it, thus far looking forward to more!

oh, i should mentioned that the one time the cpu scored a goal, the "goal" spun in but didn't fit my (1680x1050) screeen and was un-readable (it also flashed out/left the screen as soon as it stopped spinning. seems a little buggy there.

again, i'm looking forward to seeing this through to the end. you've a solid start on what might end up being the first completed sports game in DBPro history (pretty sure, there, and a long time overdue!).

thanks for sharing

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Ermes
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Joined: 27th May 2003
Location: ITALIA
Posted: 3rd Jan 2011 23:44 Edited at: 4th Jan 2011 00:47
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i've an idea about the joypad not working.

i think you are using analogic joy input instead of digital gamepad input.

use the command

joystick up()
joystick down()
joystick right()
joystick left()

and not

joystick x()
joystick y()

still not tested the demo, sorry i'm a little busy! but already downloaded.

i'm happy to see you used mediafire.

EDIT:

well, i don't know if you are a cyborg starbuzzzz, but the game plays too fast for me, i think it must be 50% of the actual speed.

then, often oppo player are too near to your area, ok you don't have offside, but i have oppo attackers pressing my defensors!!!!

gamepad works only for you. it's clear. watch what i've writed about gamepad input. my game ESF use these commands and play perfectly with usb gamepads.

the game mechanics play very well, ball, tactics, goalkeeper, very hot game.

tuning and balancing, i think you love your game run fast, but let players select speed of the game at least!

level of lights and shadows are ok for me, very nice the new "player in use" marker.

very good coder starbuzzzz,
vous êtes plus intelligent que je ne pensais!!



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Starbuzzzz
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Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Location: France
Posted: 4th Jan 2011 13:49
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Hi !
Thanx for your comments
@Virtual Nomad :
"play is gonna take a little getting used to since the player basically passes to himself instead of dribbling and it was easy to give up the ball, and often. "
I'm sorry but I'm not sure to undertand what you wanted to say(apologies for my poor english...)
The "goal" indicator is not really a bug : I'v added it to test the size of a such indicator according to the size of the screen and I let it like that in the demo
@Ermes :
yes the speed of the players, I know I know... Maybe I must find a solution to make you happy 75% of the speed is it ok for you ?
For both of you, the joypad problem makes me anxious... I'm using the joystick up() etc. commands, but I think I know where the problem is... I'm using a device checklist to detect the pads, because I want that two players can play with two pads on the pc... Do you think it could be the problem ?
For the graphics : yes it's a bit dark, but I think I will improve all graphics, illumination, etc. after finishing coding the game : AI, free kicks, penalties, etc....
Thanx again to both of you and I hope to post a more complete WIP before the next week end

"vous êtes plus intelligent que je ne pensais!!"==> I'm french you know !

Starbuzzzz
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Ermes
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Joined: 27th May 2003
Location: ITALIA
Posted: 4th Jan 2011 13:57
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about speed, make as you wish, but if you use a formula like:

desiredspeedplayers=k#*basicspeedplayers

so if the user changes k#, the players will run faster or slower.

about gamepad.... i don't know how use two gamepads.... i know for sure how use at least one gamepad, and one is better than nothing!



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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 4th Jan 2011 20:44
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Erf... I think I've found why joy didn't work for you...
It was a big mistake by me.. An error in my code with the set control device.... Sorry

Starbuzzzz
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