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DarkBASIC Discussion / Question, why are you still using DBC?

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Dragon slayer
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 22:40
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This isn't to put anyone down or anything like that. Just curious. DBP is out there and it's good now so why do so many still use classic? I am getting back to this and may use it myself so why should I? Pro's and Con's
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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 23:33
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Well DBP is free but you can't make anything to sell/make money on/etc. Basically you can only make stuff for yourself (at least, that's how I understand the License agreement).

Also DBC awakens the "What do you mean, I can't?!?" part of me. DBP has nice fancy commands that do vectors and such for me. DBC doesn't, which forces me to have to work around it and improvise, which is always fun.

Great Quote:
"Time...LINE??? Time isn't made out of lines...it is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round!" -Caboose
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Dragon slayer
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 23:47
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Well that sounds good. I bought DBC, PRO, GDK and FPSC way before they were free. You can get it free now but I think you still have to buy something or participate somehow where you get the program. If you do want to sell something you make with the software you can still purchase it which is the way I think I would go anyway.
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SH4773R
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Posted: 24th Jul 2011 23:48 Edited at: 24th Jul 2011 23:52
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BN2 your lisence understanding is correct, only for the free version though. The full paid version allows you to profit off of your work. The main reason I prefer DBP is that it uses a newer directx version (9) while DBC uses version 7.

As for the catch on the free version, it allows you to program completly free but it has ads in the ide and you cannot sell your work.

for the record I do own the full version of bolth DBP and DBC

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Latch
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Posted: 25th Jul 2011 00:00
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For me, there's a few reasons I still mess around with DBC:

1. I like that it's an interpreted language. You type, you run, you see the results without any compile time. Granted, compiled code is most often faster than interpreted code, but I can live with it.

2. One can run DBC on older machines/OSs without worries in general.

3. I like BASIC being basic. DBC is reminiscent of older BASIC languages. The command set is pretty large, but it's still a pretty simple straight forward set of commands. When variants of BASIC started implementing C like structures and classes and more and more commands, I felt DBC stayed true to BASIC - and kept it easy (relatively) to use. DBPro, while it still uses the same base command set as DBC, has so many more commands, so much reliance on additional plugins, it just doesn't appeal to me as far as BASIC is concerned. DBPro is a fine product, but it's lost a bit of the simplicity BASIC was designed to offer.

4. There's a challenge in using DBC. I feel a certain reward in figuring things out that may be dubbed as not possible with DBC - or at least not obvious. It's kinda like tinkering with an old car that you somehow keep getting to start up!

5. I've learned a ton of stuff about 3D programming, modeling, game design, etc. because of using DBC. So, it's a bit of a familiar friend.

Overall, DBC is a decent product. It could use improvements in the 2D area, and some additional camera control (like multiple camera) and a speed boost for the interpreter. These are covered in DBPro but I would want DBC to remain an interpreted language and not necessarily expand the command set.

Enjoy your day.
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SH4773R
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Posted: 25th Jul 2011 00:30
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Interpreted languages are not the greatest, they present security loop holes, offer lower preformance than compiled languages and produce larger executable files.

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Latch
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Posted: 25th Jul 2011 03:25
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Quote: "Interpreted languages are not the greatest, they present security loop holes, offer lower preformance than compiled languages and produce larger executable files."


My likes of DBC aren't intended to include a debate over interpreted vs compiled languages.

At any rate, anything that needs security, like banking software for instance, shouldn't be written with DarkBASIC. And not many are going to spend time trying to hack DB programs because there are so few DB programs that are of a quality that warrants stealing. And, it's not too hard to figure out ways to protect media which would be the main fear of piracy for a DB program in my opinion. And as far as size of executables between DBC and DBPro, DBPros exes are not small.

If one needs to do heavy duty programming where exe size, speed, security, and absolute flexibility are required, BASIC of any sort is probably not the language to use anyway, and a lower level language like C, C++, Pascal, or real down and dirty assembly, would probably be better options.

But if you want to set up a quick, decent, 3d game by yourself, you can't go wrong with DarkBASIC.

Enjoy your day.
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SH4773R
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Posted: 25th Jul 2011 05:56
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Why stick with a graphics engine that has been out dated four times? At least dbp is only 2 versions behind the current tech. (If your not working with dbp x10)

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TheComet
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Posted: 25th Jul 2011 12:17
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Isn't this just like asking Why do you still play that old space invaders on your commodore 64?! Get with the program and play COD6 MW2 man!

Nostalgia my friend, nostalgia... Oh and the gameplay on space invaders is better than most games today.

TheComet

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Latch
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Posted: 25th Jul 2011 13:14
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Quote: "Why stick with a graphics engine that has been out dated four times?"


That's a good question! But the general user of DBC or DBPro doesn't program the 3D engine directly. They don't call Direct X commands. So one can say that the engine has been updated, but what does it mean? They still use almost the same BASIC command set so the user doesn't really know any difference. Of course with DBPro there are a few more options, and a few more controls - most of which have been around since directx 7 - so programming wise you can do more things with DBPro out of the box. Under the hood, later versions of Direct X are better written or have been rewritten to take advantage of newer and greater graphics hardware, but programming wise in DB, the user isn't exposed to those calls directly so they don't see what has changed in the graphics engine design. They still type BASIC source code. Drawing a polygon is still drawing a polygon though it may be drawn faster one way than another.

However, with more commands added to DBPro, the user is allowed to take advantage of the newer Direct X. For me, I don't really care. I like the smaller command set of DBC. I like the simplicity. I find that most of the graphics programming happens in 2d paint and 3d modeling programs anyway. There's a lot of cool stuff with DBPro in terms of lighting and effects, but for me, it doesn't matter. DBC works, it's easy. If I need to give it a push, I can always write or locate a DLL to use.

Enjoy your day.
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Attila
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Posted: 25th Jul 2011 17:52
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I already wrote all the functions I needed in DBC before DBP was published, and its easy and fast. Its only drawback is, that since Win Vista/Win 7 there is a problem with 16:9-screens. But it is the fastest development enviroment for a game giving me full control of 2d- and 3d-environment.

And - yes I like DBC.
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Tats World
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Posted: 27th Jul 2011 10:22
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you can do anything you want in DBC...if graphics is your priority, move to dbp...but if versatility and the ease of the old style basic is your forte, the DBC is the way to go

If your patient, you will get there
tat's world is free almost finished but playable now updates will be done as game reaches completion
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Quel
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Posted: 27th Jul 2011 12:17
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Nobody finds it uselessly slow?..

I'm so sad that game, Soulhunter was made in DBC, it runs like crap while it would be cool on Pro.

-In.Dev.X: A unique heavy story based shoot'em ~35%
-CoreFleet: An underground commander unit based RTS ~15%
-TailsVSEggman: An Sonic themed RTS under development for idea presentation to Sega ~15%
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TheComet
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Posted: 27th Jul 2011 12:32
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Quote: "I'm so sad that game, Soulhunter was made in DBC, it runs like crap while it would be cool on Pro."


Well he started making that game when Pro wasn't even invented yet... I don't think he wanted to switch languages when it was released, it costed like 400$ or something.

TheComet

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chafari
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Posted: 27th Jul 2011 14:48
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Quote: "Nobody finds it uselessly slow?.."


Yess, if it is for a comercial game...but you can write lots of programs with it if you are not looking for something big...I still use Qbasic for my purposes.

Cheers

I'm not a grumpy grandpa
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29 games
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Posted: 27th Jul 2011 23:55
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I agree with Latch's comments regarding BASIC being, well, basic. I also think some people forget what the "B" in BASIC stands for.

Although it's nice having the extra commands in DBP there is something satisfying about working stuff out for yourself. I found doing my own collision detection and animations helped when I started using Sparky's collision in DBP and creating animations in Blender. I also find that making best use of the extra commands you still need to understand some fundamentals to make use of them.

Quote: "Soulhunter was made in DBC, it runs like crap while it would be cool on Pro"


I have to agree with this but then sometimes you just stick to your guns and get on with it.

However, some people moan about how slow DBP is. It's all a matter of designing games within the limitations of the language (whatever language you're using) and the harware that you want it to run on. I find that using a little creativity and the limitations aren't as limiting.

I prefer using DBC to DBP but I've moved to DBP because I was having technical problems with DBC (mainly on my net book with windows 7) that I couldn't be bothered to spend any more time trying to resolve. Having said that, if there wasn't a free version of DBP I might not have made the move.

Quote: "I am getting back to this and may use it myself so why should I?"


One of the best things I like in DBC is the "key frame" command. It basically allows you to animate 3D models within DBC: which I thought was pretty cool. Here are some examples:


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=175630&b=10

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=10&t=97545&p=90 (third post from the bottom).
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PirateJohn
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 08:57
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I was writing a program in DBC that doesn't work in the DBP when I tried to copy it over. The reason it didn't work is because the DBP compiler seemed to be unable to compile one particular line of code:

CASE CHR$(13)

It did not accept a CHR$ value as a case variable. Now, granted, I got the DVD since then and installed that over what I had originally installed, so perhaps it would work now, but I haven't tried copying it over since then.
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newfavo
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Posted: 5th Sep 2011 13:23
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his is mostly experimental but kinda forgot if you can use memblocks and have tried to do it by drawing to off-screen bitmap but seems to be the same speed. I'm getting 210fps so no problems this way.



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