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3 Dimensional Chat / light up a level?

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Genesis Rage
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 07:30
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does anyone have a suggestion on how to light up a .x level? without using the actual DX lights (slow down to much)? i have tried to use lightmaps, but then the textures get to be massive, and add up in size really quick!

maybe some kind of vertex or pixel shading? if so i have no clue about how to use these things

i use 3ds max 5 with pandasoft exporter... if this helps any... its just that a level with the same lighting throughout it... doesnt look very good

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 07:39
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This question has caused me more frustration than any other 3d issue.

Still looking for an answer...

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ESC_
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 07:57
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Don't use DX lights to light a level! That's a bad idea. There's a low limit to the # of lights you can have, and it lights per vertex, which with most low poly levels looks awful. Lightmaps would be the way to go, but without multiple UVs they are far from practicle. Vertex lighting isn't really supported yet, either, though. The only way to go right now is to make a duplicate of your original, with different UVs for the lightmap, and then load it in over the original and apply dark ghosting to it.

''For nonconformity, the world whips you with its displeasure''---Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Genesis Rage
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 07:59
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with this method... wouldnt you get a huge fps hit for have two models... and also i heard that this can actually mess up textures, having two identical object on top of one-another? (does some kind of diagnal line or something?)

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ESC_
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 08:07
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Yeah, it does give a large fps hit, but it's a better solution than baking lighting into a level's texture. Depending on the card, there can be some wierd z-buffer problems doing that, but IMO is the best solution 'till we get multiple uvs

''For nonconformity, the world whips you with its displeasure''---Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Genesis Rage
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 08:23 Edited at: 8th Nov 2003 09:32
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yeah i just tested it out... and it messes up all the time... this is not an option... unless there is a way to make sure it draws outside of the textured object...

but still... there has to be a better way of doing this!

=-edit-=
is there any word on multiple UV's? because i can set it up in max so that it works having different UV's for the texture... and another set of UV's for the lightmap... but when exported, it either doesnt load... or messes up the textures in DBP?

i know there has to be a better way of doing this... because ive seen good lighting and stuff in demos of DBP!!! arggh

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 17:46
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Well DBP dose have a command called "set light mapping on" which works, and I've used it. The first time I tried this was with a seperate ligthmap jpeg file (which was just black and white gradients) that was layed over the level textures by DBP.

The only problem with that is it's only one lightmap per object. So for your entire level you can only have one lightmap, making detail a huge problem.

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Genesis Rage
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 18:17
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hey a nice feature would be a command like "SET LIGHT MAPPING ON 1, 2, 2" (object number, image number, UV map channel)!!! this would be the bomb!...

if ANYONE has ANY idea how to do this, without killing FPS or getting messed up textures, PLEASE let us know... !!!

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 18:56
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Well, that's pretty much what the set light mapping on command does. You have your normal, textured level without a lightmap, and you import it. The lightmap you keep as a seperate jpeg file. The textures and the lightmap do not interfere with each other in this method, they are completely seperate. The command takes the jpeg lightmap file (NOT a COMPLETE MAP, a LIGHTMAP ONLY, which is just black and white gradients), and places it over the texture and shades it accordingly.

The only problem with this, as I stated before, is that it's only one lightmap per object. So unless you want to divide up your level and load in different pieces seperately (which I know I don't wanna do), then you can only have one jpeg file to put over the entire level. If you try to unwrap a level into one jpeg file, then there are going to be problems with detail.

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Genesis Rage
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 19:29 Edited at: 8th Nov 2003 19:29
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@quoth
i do know that... if you look closely at the command i said... i wish there was a "UV Map Channel"... that is so you can have all your textures on UV Map Channel 1 (so you can have tiled textures, and everything the same in your subway level)... but then on UV Map Channel 2 have your entire object mapped out (so when putting on a single black/white image for the lightmap... it will all line up correctly)

you CAN do this in Max 5... ive played around with it and got it so it looks awesome... but when exported DBP only looks at the UV Map Channel 1... so it messes up the texturing...

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Genesis Rage
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Posted: 9th Nov 2003 03:54
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so... no one has ever made any kind of level that required some kind of light... other than ambient?

if not... mind telling us how to do it?

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ESC_
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Posted: 9th Nov 2003 05:03 Edited at: 9th Nov 2003 05:04
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For the compo, myself and Froggermon are using vertex colors exported from max. They aren't nativly supported, so you'd need to parse the .x file and then build a memblcok using that info. It take a while to load, though.

''For nonconformity, the world whips you with its displeasure''---Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Genesis Rage
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Posted: 9th Nov 2003 05:22
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i thought vertex colors were supported with DBP now... or is it some other kind that is?

heard of any other methods?

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