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Geek Culture / DB vs every other game ever

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M00NSHiNE
21
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Joined: 4th Aug 2003
Location: England, UK
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 18:16
Hi all, just wondering how real, commercial games are made in comparison to DB. Many games that are now 4 and 5 years old could do things that DBPro is capable of now (mesh deformation, bone animation etc) and I wondered two things:

1. Does anybody know how proper dev houses put games together - what methods they use for certain operations like how their engines work and how levels are made etc

2. Will DB Pro ever be ut of date?

Sorry for putting this post in a poor context but my ear was killing last night, it started bleeding and now I have a headache.

ZEDWARE website coming soon... //END TRANSMISSION//
Dsarchy
20
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Joined: 4th Oct 2003
Location: UK- Kent
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 18:57
"I wont lie to you MOONSHINE. Every post that has gone up against DB has failed"- Adapted Matrix Quote.

But to be serious this post may get very "opinionated" very quickly.

Although you are not insulting DB at all so it may be ok.

And I thought the language wasn't that bigger deal. C++ is quite old and they use that. I thought it was just your media that made the game look dated or not.

But Im not a very good Programmer (yet) so what I am saying now could be a hole lot of Bullsh*t and Some more experienced Programmer would correct me.

Enter experienced programmer.............

"Is it really good is a hoover sucks?"
ReD_eYe
21
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Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 19:00
*ReD_eYe enters, stage right
"Hey your not an experienced prgrammer"
*ReD_eYe looks sad and walks off

there are gonna be some long posts here for certain!


Go on, click on my signature image, you know you want to
Favourite smiley>>>
Kentaree
21
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Joined: 5th Oct 2002
Location: Clonmel, Ireland
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 19:10
Quote: "C++ [is quite old and they use that"


True, but C++ doesnt actually have to do much with the game programming, its the 3D API thats used, like OpenGL and DirectX. DarkBASIC uses the DirectX API, and puts them in easy to use basic-like commands. However, not all DirectX functions can be accessed yet out of DarkBASIC, so its not as functional as C++ using DirectX.

Quote: "Will DB Pro ever be out of date?"


As long as TGC keep implementing the newest DirectX APIs, it wont go out of date as such. As long as newer game-related techniques and formats keep being added, it should be able to keep up pretty well in the world of games.

I would be unstoppable if I could just get started...
Dr OcCuLt
21
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Joined: 27th Nov 2002
Location: a Dark Deep Dark pit, it dark in here
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 19:26
where to start. well the thing is that in some way the way pro`s do thing is not to diffent from the way we do this.

so
how engines work :- the same way we get them to work there a loop the computer see what the players doing and moves him/her. it works out what the mosters are doing and move them. then i up dates the sceen.

levels:- thay start whit a model file like a .X or .BSP then thay make a data file that tell the computer were the mosters are starting. ie



Will DB Pro ever be up of date:- yes and no a lot of what you takeing about was programed by dev houses it come do to how good a programer you are not what commands your hae or what API`s you can ues.
Northern Fist
20
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Joined: 23rd Sep 2003
Location:
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 19:46
@ DBPvivi

"But where other posts have failed, you will succeed..." - another twisted Matrix quote

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
Dsarchy
20
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Joined: 4th Oct 2003
Location: UK- Kent
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 20:34
LoL nice one.

"Is it really good is a hoover sucks?"
Ian T
22
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 21:36
Pro will go out of date eventually. As it's a high-level programming language tied in directly with Microsoft's DirectX, there's no way it can't be. However, it should stay 'in date' for at least many years-- DirectX is still the standard 3d API for commercial game developers and Pro brings that power to everyone who can comprehend and code BASIC.

Short post, it's just my two cents on the first question.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 22:40
Uhh .... in regards to the ear thing, I heard that bleeding from the ear is potentially a sign of serious illness. Making a doctor appointment lad!!!! ... that is unless you just pick it too hard, in which case STOP IT!!!

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
Megaton Cat
21
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Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 01:43
lol
another usless post right here.

My philosophy:
LESS CHAT MORE SCREENIES.
CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
21
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Joined: 8th Aug 2003
Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 03:46
<------useless too

-RUST-
Andy Igoe
21
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 15:26
Pro will go out of date when DarkBASIC Deluxe is released, or whenever Lee fancies a holiday and wants to raise some cash

In other words, you can expect DarkBASIC to be reasonably up to date for as long as TGC keep making money from it, you might need to buy a new version from time to time, but seeing as that would sustain the delivery of new features and doesn't happen often then I think that is entirely accepteable. Mind you, Pro still has a little way to go yet before they think about a new release...

As for how the pro's make games, there's as much variety in methods as there is turkeys in Bernard Mathews back garden. Heck, there's enough variety amongst DB users! I bet you my last penny (well, last £30 at the moment) that I work in a totally different way to you and that my source code looks totally different and my media is assembled differently and my game structure is totally different and ....


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
M00NSHiNE
21
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Joined: 4th Aug 2003
Location: England, UK
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 18:18
I get the picture

OK, I actually replied to this thread this morning but the stupid college network timed me out and it didnt post, so heres roughly what I said.

Fallout - thanks for your concern, but really I think it was just an infection, nothing serious, my ear is just blocked up with wax now. Ewwww. And dont worry anyway, shortly after I was born, my parents typed in the invincibility cheat, so I cant be injured at all

So theres little difference in the way games are done commercially. Hm. Well thats cleared that one up then.

ZEDWARE website coming soon... //END TRANSMISSION//
Shadow Robert
21
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 19:25
DarkBASIC Pro will go out of date as soon as the next DirectX with major changes is released... it's really as simple as that.
In terms of graphics you know have the basics at your fingertip that personally i'd tip for another 5years.

This generally seems to be the cycle speed of the innovative things, DirectX 3.0-8.0 (most never used 1 or 2) were essentially identical APi's and they were calling similar levels of graphics and using similar pipelines. When Microsoft believed it was finally time to upgrade all of thier old features and finally get rid of 2D Graphics because cards were geared more towards 3D, thus DirectX 8.1 was born.

The time it has taken the industry to move from Dx3 -> 8.1 has been around 6years, and no doubt until the next generation of cards that radically changes the APi it will be another 5-6years like consoles before we see DarkBASIC Pro looking age'ed.
At the end of the day most of the past and comming Dx's will simply upgrade speed for alot of operations based on hardware abilities and faster processor steppings, which means how a game looks and feels is 100% upto the artists you work with and your still as a programmer.

DarkBASIC is still capable of pushing out some nice stuff, however it just cannot compare speedwise ... even when it was released it couldn't compare speedwise to be honest.
Personally I think the next DarkBASIC will come sometime in 2005-2006, and it'll probably be programmed in such a way that allows for 3rd party plugins as well as open-ending the APi initilisation allowing it to actually utilise any Graphics APi there is, however setup for DirectX as Standard.

but then remember there is always far more to a good game than good graphics.


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
900mhz | 256mb | FX5200Ti 52.16 | Dx9 | WXP-Pro
Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 19:26
Quote: "my parents typed in the invincibility cheat, so I cant be injured at all"


Looking at my family medical history, I think I could be doing with that!

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
M00NSHiNE
21
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Joined: 4th Aug 2003
Location: England, UK
Posted: 11th Nov 2003 21:21
Raven :

Thanks for the info, thats pretty much summed it up.

Fallout : Sure, at the main menu type IAMTHEMASTEROFEVERYTHING. You should now have unlimited health. Unless youre in a car and it explodes, though. Also, heres the cheat for all guns and ammo - type GIMMEGUNSNAMMO and you should be loaded.

Im absolutely mad I am.

ZEDWARE website coming soon... //END TRANSMISSION//
The admiral
22
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Joined: 29th Aug 2002
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Posted: 13th Nov 2003 09:41
Its all down to the programmer in the end. I beleive that a dbpro programme could out do some of the commercial stuff with enough work and effort. Although in a head to head power match dbpro apps will lose out in performance and speed there are some very creative and taleneted people here.

[href]www.vapournet.com/~flyer[/href]

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