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I'm going to come right out and say this because I have been trying to program in DBP for a while now and have had little success. There is a reason for that and, unfortunately, it's going to make me look really rude even though I really don't want to. Here it comes though:

The tutorials are awful.

And I mean really awful. Many of them are downright illegible. Most, even those titled things like "[Tutorial] Just Purchased DB? Want to make an rpg?" assume the reader understands the terminology and can interpret the shockingly bad grammar. This is not just the tutorials I have found through searching this site, ALL FOUR of the official beginners tutorials linked to in the sticky at the top of this forum are dead links. ALL of them.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea. As a beginner I am telling you your instructions often make no sense, regularly tell you do do complex things instead of simple things that achieve better results, don't explain basic concepts, and have a nasty habit of not quite explaining how to do things and then not showing you what it should look like. I'm sorry, it's not a nice thing to hear, but you need to hear it. Coding tutorials, especially yours, always make too many wrong assumptions about what a beginner knows.

But the main problem here is very simple, your tutorials are written in a forum. This wouldn't be too bad if the tutorials were ordered, updated regularly, and systematic. But they aren't.

Here is my proposal: Take the tutorials on here and transfer them to the DBpro wiki. This will mean:

* Users can update and revise tutorials as better methods are found
* Tutorials are subject to scrutiny by coders of all experience levels, meaning that a tutorial that is confusing to beginners can be easily changed.
* Tutorials are no-longer static but can continue to grow and be improved.
* No more hunting around and finding multiple tutorials contradicting each-other.
* All the tutorials will be easy to find, easy to read, and easy to understand and will reference others to help create a web of information.

I am currently setting up an account there right now to try and put this, at least partly, into practice.

Wow... Somebody call Dr Phil <-- Just kidding, lol.

I agree with you that some of the tutorials are far from perfect. I never used them. Instead I used my Qbasic (and other languages to a lesser degree) knowledge and trial and error to gain understanding of DBPro. I'm actually busy writing a guide to better coding atm which contradicts lots of what the tutorials teach and take a different approach to DBPro altogether. It's not a n00b tool though, it's a post-graduation primer.

Anyway... With the exception of the lion's share of TDK's Tutorials which are very easy for beginners to follow and mostly agreeable with me (I don't agree with all his coding philosophy, but still) ... let's address the general tutorial issues:

Tutorial code is poorly formatted and bloated:
Because the code is broken down to smaller components for better understanding by the majority who can't "read between the lines". Although sometimes this does achieve the opposite effect and make the exercise daunting. As to formatting, it's a matter of perspective. I use uppercase for all keywords and I indent the main module with one tab and functions with two tabs and resulting child-nests with two tabs. But that's my pref.

There are errors in the examples:
Yes, many. Thank goodness I had my Qbasic knowledge and lots of time to learn on my own. Sometimes when n00bs post example code from exercises, I've actually written my own tutorials (of varying sizes) and posted those rather than fix the exercise the OP is stuck on. These do need checking (although maybe the OPs were copying the code down wrong).

Tutorials written in a forum
This is so that users don't have to visit other sites and sources. Also, it ensures that when someone posts a question, the forum members have easy access to the examples they are speaking of. Also the example you linked to was a pretty bad example, I must admit - no offense to the author. It should have been in code tags too.

Not quite explaining things:
But this is why this halp board, "Newcomers Corner", exists. It's to provided person-to-person assistance and to clarify things if you don't grasp them. That's why we're all here - to help others like yourself. So, in a sense, this is a community effort. If you have questions, please post them and either myself or somebody else will clear the issue up for you.

Finally:
Try TDK's Tutorials - they have a high success rate
If you have a problem or need something explained, post it here. I'll do my best to illustrate it for you

PS: Now that you've brought this up, I'm considering doing a "From the Ground Up" tutorial into my schedule when I've finished my primer. This'll address n00b problems and hopefully be free of bad grammar.

I'd be happy to help with that if you need/want it.

Dont forget to put the tuts into PDF format

I can make them easily enough...

EDIT

To the OP (thats original poster) you can buy the HANDS ON DBPRO books one and two I have never needed anything else since...

Sounds cool Hodgey I'll drop you an email when I get started on it!
I'd suggest HTML format as it's the most versatile and lacks any dependencies (Well, besides a web-browser). However, MrV, if you wanna do a PDF conversion version that'd be cool as many people prefer pdf.








And thus was formed "The Fellowship of DBPro"

Well you have my Quill yeah HTML5 and CSS3 for an online and offline Desktop version and a multi platform PDF edition...

Sounds good if you asked me...

give us the preciousssssss
we wants it, its ours!

Awesome!


You have my compiler.

You have my IDE.

And my keyboard!

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There are good ones around, but remember: they're community tutorials.

I've found the dbpro help manual tutorials to be pretty good. They cover a lot of the things that people eventually say "Oh, I didn't know you could do that!" about. (I'm talking mostly about the help/principles section)

Also, I always recommend the tutorial "Vectors Don't Bite!"

That may be so, but posting them in the forum is the main part of the problem, the whole thing is just a jumble of conflicting ideas. I'm sorry if I sound angry, but I feel like I've wasted my money. The tutorials are not vetted or even spellchecked before they are posted and the complexity jumps all over the place. Why not have a wiki for the tutorials and use the forum to help people who get stuck?

I have posted a Tutorial on the Wiki and hope that maybe we can rally some people to build up a selection over there. Unfortunately there are huge gaps in my knowledge and this is making things difficult, but the tutorial that is on there is a good representation of what an actual beginners tutorial should look like.

I'd be up for contributing to this wiki. In fact, I tried, but there's a slight problem. I have no idea how to add articles and link them as I find the interface confusing. Can you add a small "tutorial" to the introduction post on that page explaining how to contribute?

TheComet