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Geek Culture / Oh Cliché, Cliché...

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DivW
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 13:55
As part of the write up for my Ad. Comp. Project i'm listng Video Game Clichés. For anyone who failed english a cliché is a phrase that gets used so often that it's not original anymore, and most people expect it or think it's lame. An example of a cliché would be "Dead as a dodo". I'm listing Clichés for old side scrolling shoot em' up games and i would like a good list of the most common ones, or the ones that people think of first when i mention Side Scrlling Space Shoot Em' Up. The best example would be "Planet X", which is lame but everybody knows about it. Anyone got others that they can tell me because mt brain's been sucked dry by the tedium of the work.

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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empty
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 14:25
Quote: "For anyone who failed english a cliché is a phrase that gets used so often that it's not original anymore"


Reminds me of "entrepreneur".

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
actarus
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 14:38
Funny how in french we got anglicisms and in english you guys have francisism...

...And I'm gone...
Van B
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 15:07
How about:

Having to shoot end of level bosses in the eye.

Or having to destroy their guns first.

Pearl necklace things that you have to shoot or squeeze through.

Giant brains in jars.

Being a lone warrior, even when there's a 2-player mode.


As a side note, the most original and fun thing I ever saw in a side scrolling shoot em up was a life algorythm, like you shoot away at these little blocks while a life algorythm works on them, so bits would shoot off and destroy other blocks, made it incredibly fun to blast through - this was on an Atari Lynx a very long time ago.


Van-B


I laugh in the face of fate!
Ian T
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 17:18
Shooting the power thingies so the big boss dies. Half-Life and The Thing come to mind.

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A very nice %it, indeed.
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 18:09
Parallax scrolling.
Boss mobs / End of level guardians.
Power ups that spring from dead things.
A complete absense of [plausable] plot line.
Yet another WW2 game.
colour clash.* / fancy border loading effects.* / loading timers.*

* old git alert


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 18:13
Well Raiding Tombs is pretty common. Zombies are overdone. Barrels are always around.Oriental Characters in Fighting Games is common, and they often have flame balls coming out of their hands. Tetris games are really one game that has been redone many times, same with Breakout games. Driving games often have tunnels, but tunnels are not common on most roads. Moving platforms are common in platform games, but they are also not around in real life.

Pincho.
actarus
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 18:18
Pincho,are you still part of GLight dev?They need a lead artist.Yes or no?

...And I'm gone...
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 18:28
I already told them that I am concentrating on my own project. Unfortunately I suppose that I have dropped out.

Pincho.
actarus
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 18:33
Yes it's unfortunate,well I'll tell striker whenever I go back on the forum,best of lucks to you.

...And I'm gone...
David T
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Posted: 11th Nov 2003 19:42 Edited at: 11th Nov 2003 19:43
All final fantasy style RPGs

p.s. talking of entrepreneur - look at my sig

"The trouble with the French is that they have no word for 'entreprenuer'" - Pres. George W Bush

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 00:04
Bullet time is probably soon to become a cliche.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 00:05
Completely unrealistic and unplausable physics.

Do you bite your thumb at me sir?

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DivW
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 00:21
I probably should have mentioned the basics of the game so far.
It's a side scrolling shooter with 2D sprites and backgrounds. There's 5 levels and hopefully when it's done a 2 player mode. There's a points sytem, a lives system, and on average 100 bad guys per level. At the end of each level there's a Boss. Level one is set in space, and level 5 is set in the core of Planet X, where you will destroy the evil something. There's no plot, and everything is pixelly 2D graphics, Just the way Mama used to make em'.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I like
Quote: "Shooting the power thingies so the big boss dies."
, and all of Van B's suggestions are good-although i don't get what you mean by pearl necklace. Any chance you could go into a bit more depth on that one?

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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Fallout
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 00:31
Quote: "Pearl necklace things that you have to shoot or squeeze through."


Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha! You dirty boy.

...

... am I the only one who picked up on that filthiest of slang?!?

Uhhh, but anyway. My cliches would be:
1 shot, to 2 shot, to 3 shot etc. guns.
End of level "boss"
Music that is usually the opitomy of stilton (i.e. cheese)
And of course the infamous "GAME OVER!!"

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DivW
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 02:02 Edited at: 12th Nov 2003 02:03
Yeah i have gun upgrades. The current ones are Normal Fire, Rapid fire, Homing fire, 3-way shot, 5-way shot, and green waves that you can shoot. If anyone can remember the game that that series of weapon upgrades came from...minus the rapid fire, it wasn't on the original game...give you a clue: Sega Game Gear...

Yeah, u must be the only one who gets that filthiest of slang. Honestly, what's the joke? I don't get it.

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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Northern Fist
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 02:05 Edited at: 12th Nov 2003 02:12
Neither did I. Fallout what's wrong with yo mind?

Anyways, cliches can be good, and bad. It really depends on the game. Here's my list:

1. Stupid guys/enemies who don't see you until you are actully on their "platform/plank/etc."

2. When you run into enemies, you get hurt - but of course, they don't. This even happens in shooters.

3. Health is represented in the "stats" bar with a valentines-day heart.

4. And of course: minibosses. Don't get me wrong, I think bosses are fun - it just depends how the game is done.

@ Van-B

For sake of shutting some people up, would you mind better explaining your curious jargon back there?

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 02:11
you big bad boss crime kingpin guy should have a hook and an eyepatch with a fluffy white cat ^_^


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the_winch
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 02:25
Quote: " Neither did I. Fallout what's wrong with yo mind?"


Ahh the innocence of youth. I'll leave it to Fallout to explain

Van-B is talking about the long chains of enimies that are held together like beads on a necklace and swing accross the screen at you.

Don't know if it's been mentioned but the enimies allways tend to fly in predicable formations usually allowing you to position yourself in the correct place and kill them all one after the other.

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Arrow
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 06:23 Edited at: 12th Nov 2003 06:23
Big bosses always flashing yellow or red befow they die

Finding food on the ground and eating it just the same

That 2.7 second moment after you are hit/die where you are completely invincible to everything

Having to save a girl

Screen always scrolls to the right

At least half of the "a single hit and they're dead" grunts never even fire there weapons and choose insted to run at you kamikaze style

The one random item that destroyes everything on the screen

Random items that would never be there in real life, yet are, give you points (example, the umbrella in Donk Kong)

A single good guy can kill an infinate nuber of bad guyes


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Van B
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 10:42 Edited at: 12th Nov 2003 10:43
Hehe, I was waiting on someone picking up on my pearl necklace, it is a common term used to describe objects linked together sequentially, like...


Count the cliches!

That's probably the best example of a pearl necklace right there, from R-Type, one of the first shoot-em-ups to have them. Often there's a weak link that you can destroy to destroy the whole thing.

I never realised this was for a game, great idea that - making a game based on cliches - side scrolling shoot em ups are the type of game you can keep comming back to. Personally, I was never a great fan of R-Type, Salamander was always my favourite, the sleek little crafts, the waves of enemies that always leave a bonus if you kill them all, classic game. Ohh, you have to include a Salamander style fire ring, like the floor of a level could be fire, and every so often there's like a loop of flames that the player can avoid by sitting right inside (Van-B flicks through his tattered album of game screenies):

The blue guy really wants to be about and inch to the right and up so the flames go right under him, very cool move that looks damn impressive to people watching you play .

Ohh, and if you could somehow include that life algorythm enemy I mentioned earlier I'd be most chuffed.


Van-B


I laugh in the face of fate!
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 10:50
Delta on the Amiga was my favourite! I didn't know that this was for a game either.

Hold the fire button down for a long time for a charged weapon!

Parallax Scrolling as already mentioned.

Pincho.
actarus
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 14:25
Didn't you do artworks for the amiga's R-Type or RT2 Pincho?

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las6
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 14:33
what's so bad about parallax scrolling?

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 14:40 Edited at: 12th Nov 2003 14:41
@Las6 Nothing wrong with Parallax scrolling, but it is a Cliche.

@Actarus..

Yeah I did the graphics for R-Type 2. I was allowed to play the arcade version all day at work, so I never bothered to get the Amiga version. Then somebody from work gave me a copy about a year later, but it wouldn't run on my Amiga because I had a 500+ or a 600 or something like that. So I have never actually played the Amiga version. But it has my name on it, and that's all that I really cared about.

Pincho.
las6
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 14:44
...so they never payed you? ;D

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 14:52 Edited at: 12th Nov 2003 14:58
Of course they payed me. I was an In-house Graphic Artist not Freelance. I got payed weekly. We made games for all the big companies!

Edit: If you doubt me, try getting the sprite screen from Dragon Breed. I wrote something on it, and I think it was Pincho.

Pincho.
actarus
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 15:02
heh,I trust you,probably not a thing I can say about everyone here

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DivW
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 16:19
Hey, i'm gonna get a screenshot of the game for you. The very first ever. Van B, by the Life Algorithm do you mean that when you shoot the bad guys their ship gets gradually more beat up? Or do you mean that when they go, they take out other things around them? Here is a list of the current Cliche's I've included...

Screen scrolls to the right.
Bad guys go Kamikaze for the first few levels.
Very predctable movement and formations.
Unlimited Ammo, no matter what the weapon.
Good Guy can kill infinate number of baddies on his own.
Lone Warrior.

I get the chain baddie thing now...it's a damn good idea. It might be a good idea for level 4, when you'r travelling to the centre of the planet.


Steve, guys who sits on my right, says i should put in a charge up beam. Any feedback on that idea?

I see no-one's tried to get the Game that the weapons power up sequence came from...i first played the game on my Sega Game Gear, a long time ago...about 1990-1992, i guess...anyone know the game? It's what i'm basing a lot of this game on...once again, that sequence is: Normal, Homing, 3-way, 5-way, and green waves that kill everything. I don't remember if there was a greater power up because i never got that far into the game. I could never get by the last level.


That's all for now, keep those Cliché's coming. When i get home i'll post a Screenshot of the game...but it's VERY beta right now.

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 16:38
Is a charge up beam what I said earlier about holding the fire button down, and your weapon powers up until you let go? Or is it the energy bar that goes down when you fire shots, and if it gets to the bottom you cannot fire for awhile? I think it is the first!
Fallout
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 17:27
I can't really go about explaining a pearl necklace in this thread, can I? That'd just be wrong. It was the "shoot or squeeze through" bit that made me laugh. Was that accidental Van, or cheekily planned?

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Van B
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 18:07
Hehe 50/50 - I always have a little chuckle when someone mentions pearl necklaces . Or like when I was watching Time Commanders the other night and the boy could'nt understand why I laughed when one of the presenters told them ''They should come at them from behind''.

Damn I'm imature

Van-B


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Arrow
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 22:53
You and 2/3 of this planet


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DivW
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 23:42
Here's an image. There's nothing wrong with being immature. It's good fun. Yeah the charge up beam would be holding the button down for firing.

I've got a reasonable list of Cliché's now...anybody got any more?

And anyone know the game i'm talking about? I'm curious...it was my fave game as a Kid.

So here's an image off the game...remember it's 100% Betacrap right now, i havn't even put in images. I'm just using some quick scraps right now to reprisent the ship and the bad guys. Tell me what you think should be going in please.



Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Nov 2003 23:49
The main player ship usually tilts when you press up, and down. It often has a partner droid gun. Most things are usually 32*32 or 16*16 depending on what res you are going to use. The background map also has to obey the 16*16/32*32 rules. Colours used were often 16 or 32.

Pincho.
Arrow
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Posted: 13th Nov 2003 05:21
The bad guyes are always green tenticled aliens, which might explain why they always kindnap girls

The 3rd or 4th level is always organic looking


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DivW
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Posted: 13th Nov 2003 14:26
Hmm...tentacles. What an interesting idea...i never thought of the organic level idea. I'll keep that one in mind. I'm trying to stick to the original 16 colours idea, but the game would look better with 256... that one's 50/50. But i'm probably going to opt for 256 so i can get some "rendering" abilities. By rendering i mean fire would look like fire, and not a red square. My teacher is a freak! HELP! GET ME OUT OF HERE! He's making JOKES!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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Van B
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Posted: 13th Nov 2003 14:58
Yeah, use 256 colours but stick to a set pallette and draw the sprites in the traditional way, you could just have 16 different gradients and work with those. In the old days we'd often have only 15 colours, 1 colour for the backdrop, then a couple of gradients and some vital colours like red. Stippling between 2 gradients would provide a whole other colour, the Bitmap Brothers (arguably the kings of 16-bit graphics) used this a lot, that's the beauty of old TV's, the anti-aliasing lets you stipple and mix single colours quite convincingly, which is why emulators tend not to look as good as the originals did.

Perhaps the first thing should be to make a sprite editor and animator, as opposed to sprite editing in PSP or something, which is less than ideal IMO.

On a side note: Anyone remember SEUCK, damn I loved that thing on the C64, that's where I made my first real complete game. It was a Shoot-Em-Up-Construction-Kit, it had sprite editors and animators and map editors, all in 1 neat package that let you go in, make your game, then record it to a tape to give to your mates. Perhaps something like that on the PC would go down well with the younger folks.


Van-B


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KNau
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Posted: 13th Nov 2003 18:25 Edited at: 13th Nov 2003 18:26
These qualify more as bad/lazy design:

1) Escort missions where you must run along and defend a character who is too stupid to defend themselves at all. Plus all of the enemies suddenly go from attacking you to attacking the defenseless character with no logical reason given other than that's how the mission is designed. Escort missions suck and are a sign of lazy designers!

2) Missions where missing even one minor object results in immediately being pulled from the game and having to start over. The world doesn't cease because I missed one crate - grade the player on a scale, not a simple success/failure. The military doesn't cancel and entire invasion because a stray missile causes collateral damage.

3) An extention of above: calling a mission a failure before it actually is. The horrible "Driver" series of games were really bad for this. A car chase does not arbitrarily end after a minute and a half! Don't say "you lost them" when I can still see their friggin' car up the street!

4) Also as above: Arbitrary time limits - time limits are stupid! Create conflict through gameplay not through a stupid countdown timer. Like I said about "Driver", a car chase can go on a lot longer than two minutes! Even Grand Theft Auto used lame ass time limits when they weren't necessary. If a character needs to be killed let me decide when to do the hit, don't give me only 60 seconds to drive across town, kill the guy, outrun the cops and make it back to the garage! Lazy, lazy game designers!

5) Limited saves or worse no saves. This argument has been going on since the save slot was invented. Lazy designers say "it creates tension". Hmmm...it's better to create tension using the save slot rather than actual gameplay, huh? You suck, lazy designer!

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DivW
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Posted: 17th Nov 2003 01:28
I might create a sprite editor. That's a good idea, i could make one in Visual Basic, and add it to the developer toolkit i was making a while ago. The post's probably still around here somewhere. No-one gave me feedback so i guessed no-one wanted it. That way i could set the canvas size and set a pallette. It's not a bad idea, actually. It also means i could set up movement at the same time...hmm.

Who were the Bitmap Brothers? I've heard there names, but that's all i've ever heard off them. Mysterious people. Anyway.

The game won't save. It's retro, and plus if it could save it would really suck. It's just that kind of game. I could have an auto pause that resumes from where you stop, then deletes itself after you resume, but that's all, or it would ruin the game.

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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AlecM
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Posted: 17th Nov 2003 09:51
Crates

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DivW
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Posted: 17th Nov 2003 12:41
Crates in Space? We're going lylat here...in lylat wars, when you shot stuff or were running low on supplies, or even as a random event, your spaceship, which is in orbit, can send you a floating crate right to where you need it. You'd then proceed to shoot the crate open and reap the cratey goodies inside.

I always thought it was amzing how the Robot could pilot a starship, work the weaponary, send you updates, and mange the comms all at once. Considering it's just a robot, it' not the ship's computer or anything i think that's all just rather silly.

Space crates...hmm.

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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DivW
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Posted: 25th Nov 2003 13:45
Hey peeps, anyone who's checked this thread please go to my other thread called "Advanced Computing" to see where this is going...thank you very much. Hope this isn't considered spamming...

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

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