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Geek Culture / Windows XP Themes and Visual Styles

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Nov 2003 17:24
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i'm currently looking at ways to creat visual themes and such for Windows XP, for no other reason than i want to create one for my own little network of systems.

I'm wondering if anyone here is experienced in developing or atleast what software is best to use for such a task... right now i know the information within Windows XP on howto create one in C++, and i've got something called StyleBuilder which is pretty good.

But if anyone has any specific information that could help me create a far more indepth visual style than what is normally associated within Windows XP.

not that i have anything against the Classic or XP style of buttons and sizes, however i'd like to be able to edit the control positions of the max/min/exit and such... i've seen some styles that do this too. But only under WinBlinds, is there a way to use uxtheme.dll patched system (Standard XP VS) rather than resorting to one that will cost the end-user cash to use.

I'd like to edit everything about the desktop, from right-click menus being more than just colour edits even to a login.
i've already finished my nt kernel editor to update with the new boot logo, but i want to really completely stip down the visual of the UI of windows and make something a bit more ... fun ^_^


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Great Knight
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Posted: 19th Nov 2003 17:58
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You can easliy do it. With http://www.themexp.org . It tells you how to make your own. and you can download others there. Enjoy.

AMD Atherlon 2400+ XP, 380 DDr memeory, ATI Radeon 9000 64 DDR, Windos XP home edition.
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David T
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Posted: 19th Nov 2003 18:26
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Windowblinds comes with a style creator.

You can't create astyle adn have XP run it natively, as it will only run microsoft-signed styles.

"Help! My keyboard is stuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk"

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Dazzag
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Posted: 19th Nov 2003 19:06
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Yeah, I used ThemeXP. Is pretty good, and can look quite nice. I personally had a nice orange sort of desktop. Was cute. And easy to download and use examples. Good bit is that when the software runs out you can still access the themes from your desktop settings (if you save them). Nice. Slowed down my laptop a little too much so I uninstalled.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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the_winch
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Posted: 19th Nov 2003 19:13
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Quote: "You can't create astyle adn have XP run it natively, as it will only run microsoft-signed styles."


I allways thought that was really stupid. They finally introduce a way to change the look and only give you a choice of 3 and don't let you make your own

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Nov 2003 19:33
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ThemeXP.org doesn't allow you to create your own themes, it just links other tools and hosts those themes you can use.

And Windows CAN use Visual Styles natively, however you need to patch your UXTHEME.DLL or own Plus! XP/DME (which does the same thing) and all it does is activeate a switch which is standardly set to 'off' simply so you want to buy Plus, but the MSDN site explains howto edit it

if you use the uxtheme patch it actually runs themes and visual styles just as fast as it runs XP's standard (as they are standard)

but this doesn't help to what tools you guys believe are good and comprehensive to alter everything.
Annyoingly Plus was SUPPOSE to come with one to achieve it, but it bloody didn't. (which figures really)


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David T
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Posted: 19th Nov 2003 19:48
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I allways thought that was really stupid. They finally introduce a way to change the look and only give you a choice of 3 and don't let you make your own

1. oops, hehe some odd spelling there

It's not really. If a user installs a dodgy style that subsequently crashes their PC, they blame MS (might sue if they were really stupid ) and the os could get a bad name. It's a way of preventing unneeded problems.

Imagine if ms said "hey, it doesn't matter. Go and modify the kernel as you wish". You're gonna get some stupid person not doing somehtig right / installing something dodgy and the whole system is kaput

"Help! My keyboard is stuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk"

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th Nov 2003 12:17
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well VS and Themes have nothing to do with the Kernel, infact very little of Windows stuff does unless you need to edit some of the core.

and Microsoft releaing the ability to have different styles with Plus! isn't novel. They did it for Windows 95 & 98 with standard Themes... not sure why Millennium Edition had them built-in

However not giving you a tool to alter the Visual Style / Appearance of Windows is a bit odd though. I'm using StyleBuilder 2.0 right now, however it can't do some of the things i'd like so i might have to hard code the login screen.


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the_winch
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Posted: 20th Nov 2003 12:41
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Quote: "It's not really. If a user installs a dodgy style that subsequently crashes their PC, they blame MS (might sue if they were really stupid ) and the os could get a bad name. It's a way of preventing unneeded problems."


They don't have a problem letting people run 3rd party apps which are more dangerious. It looks more like bad implementation to me, it's not a problem on other desktops.

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David T
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Posted: 20th Nov 2003 18:49
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well VS and Themes have nothing to do with the Kernel, infact very little of Windows stuff does unless you need to edit some of the core.

It was an exmaple, I know they have nothing to do with the kernel

It looks more like bad implementation to me, it's not a problem on other desktops.

It wasn't:

Quote: "One of the first questions you may ask yourself is, "So why did Microsoft do this? Why not let us just create our own Microsoft format visual styles?". Probably the most obvious reason is: It's Microsoft's format and therefore they want some say on how it's used. But there are practical reasons.

First there is the obvious support issues. How much technical support does Microsoft want to provide,for people who download something that replaces their GUI? It's amazing how many people who proudly claim they never click on attachments in their email sent to them by strangers but will visit some website and replace system files (as a side note, things that change your boot screen are replacing bits in the Windows XP kernal, people who download logonui.exe's are literally running an EXE made by "some guy" on the net). So choosing how you do this sort of thing does require some care.

An even better reason is branding. Microsoft has a vested interest in trying to establish a Windows XP branded look. If Linux or some other OS ever truly becomes a threat on the desktop, being able to have a branded look for Windows could become important (and is already important now in establishing a standard Windows XP look). That's why it's called "Windows XP style" rather than say "Luna".

There are also licensing issues potentially. Perhaps Microsoft wants to protect its format from unauthorized use. It's hard to say what they may use it but given that it is their format, they certainly have the right to do what they want.

Moreover, supporting third party visual styles could become problematic. What if Microsoft changes the format in a service pack? They'd have to worry about getting thousands of support calls from users whose systems no longer correctly boot up because they were using a Microsoft format visual style that no longer functions. That means they'd have to put resources into maintaining backward compatibility on something that is purely cosmetic.

As you can see, there are some pretty solid reasons why they protected it."


Imagine how much the load on techincal support will increase

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Nov 2003 21:51
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yeah even if microsoft do change the setup in a service pack though, they're very adapt at compatibility.
you can still use any DirectX that came before 9 under version 9.
you can still use older Windows Software
you can still use old Themes which are 100% supported by Microsoft.

the bottom line really is that they never ment for the Visual Styles in Windows XP to actually become popular. They only ment them for businesses who previously had to rely on other peoples APIs suchas SDL and GTK to create new visual styles for thier programs.

However the Styles are popular, even though you have to own Microsoft Plus!, Window Blinds, StyleXP just to run them - it doesn't mean that they're not becomming popular.

Although the login screens are edited programs, and the kernel bootup screens are edited kernel files...
What is actually happening is for the Kernel file, all your doing is replacing the bitmap resource that was already there with a new one. And the login files are quite well explained within the Windows Core SDK... Microsoft have ment for business' to achieve such visual changes, such as Alienware who have thier own VS not just for Windows but the entire OS.
However home users also now wish to do such things because it's possible. Microsoft can simply place a warning that such things are not supported by them thus loosing all blame if things go wrong.

i'm still looking around for programs that aren't gonna cost me an arm and a leg and for people who want to use my VS the same, just to get it working without having to hardcode my own in C++
that's really all i want to do, is have a GUI Style program that i can edit and compile my own System VS without having to hard code things.

Someone else must've created a comprehensive one already.


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Rob K
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 00:46 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2003 00:46
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Quote: "you can still use any DirectX that came before 9 under version 9."


Actually MS "cheat" as it were, they leave all the 6.x,7.x and 8.x files there, they still come with the latest installer. Older games just use the older APIs.

Quote: "the bottom line really is that they never ment for the Visual Styles in Windows XP to actually become popular. They only ment them for businesses who previously had to rely on other peoples APIs suchas SDL and GTK to create new visual styles for thier programs."


Windows themes affect ALL programs which have the appropriate XML manifest either as a seperate file or as a built in resource. They are primarily intended as user eye-candy to help XP compete with Apple / GNOME / KDE, although they had the sense to make it more flexible for the end user (not found anything as good looking as Panther or Jaguar though). My current desktop theme is EclipseOSX.

Please take a second to learn the spellings for meant and their - you have been getting them wrong ever since I've been here


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 17:23
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not they don't Rob, they're all setup for DirectX9.
Essentially they're emulated, but not quite emulation more like rewriting.

so say you call for the creation of Dx, it it called up Dx7 then Dx take that call and runs the Dx9 equivilant.
Which is why some older games appear to have bugs because of Dx9 as it can sometimes miss out some important data through this, yet also why games are MUCH faster using the new interface.

i've got the Panther and Janguar themes for XP, not that i like them - only on there cause of my brother.
This said, i think you missed the point. Although yeah if there is the manifest file saying to use Windows themes in your app then it will ... but the point is that this isn't the same as allowing the end users to access and edit such things.
And businesses oftenly turn off the Manifest and include thier own, because it is possible to create your own VS just for your own program and use it only in your programs instance.

AOL for example use it with the Hawiai skin


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 19:06
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what's so funny you lil freak?


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Chris K
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 19:26
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...and like that; he's gone...
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Preston C
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 20:49
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@Raven: Dear God Man, what did you do to your Avatar


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 20:54
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well it's moronic attitudes like that which just perpetuate the bull about AOL...
i've been on AOL for close to 7years now, and i've never had a problem with them.

They're service connects everysingle time no matter where in the world i am... i can setup my numbers for my local location.
And so what if it's browser is just IE with a face lift? I prefer IE to every other sodding browser on the market for compatiblity, speed and overall ease of use.
They're Technical Support is excellent depending provided your asking for help with something that is actually covered by the AOL contract you sign... and they don't give out personal account information without you quoting them your Account ID Number.

Broadband or Narrowband, they are one of the most reliable and best ISPs i've ever used... and hell i've had alot of ISPs in my time.
Freeserve, BTOpenworld, Eidosnet, NetZero, Verizon, AT&T, NTL:Home - and the one that has caused me the least headache is AOL.

The software has never once crashed my operating system, it is automatically updated and the new software is sent to you for free. Not to mention it has alot of plugins which are exclusive between AOL, Netscape and EA Games.

Sorry but i fail to see how anyone who has never even used AOL can even talk about how good or bad they are... and even more to the point actually bring up the fact of how valid they are as an ISP when the point made here was that it was a program that used it's own VS void of Windows VS.

Tell ya what, perhaps you should come and see me sometime so i can give you $10 so you can for once actually BUY A SODDING CLUE!


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Chris K
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 20:55 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2003 22:01
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Quote: "Dear God Raven, what happened to your avatar?"


I'm just waiting for him to have Stewie.

...and like that; he's gone...
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Chris K
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 21:30
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P.S you act like Stewie.

...and like that; he's gone...
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Chris K
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 21:59
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Raven.

Stewie is the baby from Family Guy. The one in the picture

...and like that; he's gone...
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2003 22:12
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well then i'd say they probably didn't like your pissy attitude, because when i phoned up AOL for Broadband it took 2 mins whilst they checked my current details. I got the box with the ADSL modem in it within 3days, i connected it all up and ran the installations CD.
It was all up and running within 15minutes.

God knows what problem you have with them, and i can connected to AOL Broadband using any Broadband connection. As my old connection line is at my old place which my mates now have control of, so they're keeping the AOLB account there and i'm now on NTL:Interactive which for the first week pissed me around. Not to mention i had to wait 3weeks for installation and when it finally was installed they didn't activate the box correctly.

i guess all my years of having the internet probably do mean that i don't have a clue about it eh?
i'm the one here with over a decade of internet use, and AOL is still the best ISP i've ever been with.

... See puffy, this is exactly why i'm begining to hate this forum.
getting sick and tired of this crap every god damn day.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 15:12
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well i'm sick and tired of you people taking the piss out of things and people that you niether know nor have tried.

no everyone tries these things for 5minutes and thinks they know enough to sit there and add crap to thier name simply because everyone else is doing it.

and your comment had no merit being in here in the first damn place, and your damn well know it.


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Dazzag
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 17:58
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AOL has always been laughed at. Just the way it is. Esp. funny was those guys in the US who noticed their sales were way down, and it was cos they had AOL email addresses (people avoided them because of it). Changed to someone else, and it turned out was actually AOL behind the scenes. Story is a couple of years old, so may have got some details wrong, but is general jist of it.

As to me, have never used, or known anyone (in real life) who uses AOL. So I have no opinion either way. Think they get a lot of flak, just because they are the biggest, but then I don't doubt there may be something to what some people say about it. Also, UK ads are seriously annoying. Grrr...

Personally I use NTL broadband, because there was no option at the time (years ago). Overall their service has been fine for years, until this year. And it's been, not that good lets say. But biggest problem is their service on the phone. To say that it makes me want to bring gun laws back to this country is playing down how I feel about them. After looking at the nthellworld.co.uk forum for quite a bit (com is owned by NTL now...) it looks like that not everywhere has crap service. Just some. And they are really really really bad. Really bad.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 17:59
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but there was no need for the "laugh" in the first place was there... just own up for gods sake that you were taking a pop at AOL simply because you don't actually have anything to comment and you wanted to spam.

you wanna spam make your own forum and do it, i'm getting sick of those who feel like making the pathetically stupid comments just to post rather than posting nothing at all.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 18:20
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you ever read the AUP for the site?
it specifically has something about spamming, read it.

i don't find people putting other peoples product down amusing, don't care who it is.


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David T
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 18:47
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I'm sure he feels the same



Lighten up. Both of you

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 19:13
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hahaa Dave ... probably do, always wondered what 'STFU' means; no doubt something non too nice. ^_^
i've got my visual styles all working now under XP standard theme, it's a pitty that i can't edit up the animations like i've seen and i can do on AmigaOS.

Would love to be able to have the Windows animate open and closed, or just edit the stretch and fade animation properties a little.
Trying to get a Final Fantasy Visual Style working, so want the menu's to flick open and such.

So far done VII, IX and XII ... don't have X anymore to checkout the menu's on that and need to download the VIII demo again to do that, but its similar to VII isn't it?

I've even made a new helper to replace the paperclip, it's a cute lil cupo with a book ^_^
having alot of fun doing all of this too


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David T
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 19:32
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Have you got any screens?

"Help! My keyboard is stuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk"

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 19:42
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not yet... wanna get some more of it done before i proudly show it off in another one of those "Hey lookit my new Desktop" threads ^_^
me and puffy have been going mad on them the past week lol, he's been looking for the perfect longhorn one.
So you can expect one of those posts again soon lol


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David T
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2003 19:49
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I've got a longhorn theme on my PC, its called Blackcomb and is for windowblinds.

"Help! My keyboard is stuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk"

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