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Geek Culture / Windows Vista Showdown!

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Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 7th Apr 2013 09:13
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So, I have Vista, and I like it but everyone freaks the hell out about how bad it is, but can never tell me why. This ends here and now! I demand to know its problems! D:

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 7th Apr 2013 10:04
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I don't know any specific reasons, but what I do know is that you never find Vista on a netbook, yet you find XP and 7 on them all the time. I think that says something.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Apr 2013 10:13 Edited at: 7th Apr 2013 10:15
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Okay, I'll shoot.

I don't know what Vista is like in its current state, but I used to have it on my gaming laptop, it had a pretty good spec and should have been able to run it smoothly (and it came with Windows Vista pre-instaled).

At first, it seemed to be okay, I wasn't quite sure why people disliked it, perhaps for some people it was having teething problems. But I ended up finding Vista to be quite bloated, a bit of a resource hog and it became really sluggish and had a really poor performance. I hadn't done anything myself to make Vista that way. It just didn't want to work fluently. I put up with it, but when the Windows 7 BETA came out, I installed it and it worked like a dream, even after a lot of usage.

My other laptop came with Windows 7 and I never experienced the slowdowns I had with Vista and it's a lower spec laptop. Then when Windows 8 came out I installed it on both and it has been outperforming 7 and Vista ever since, really smooth and fluid and it doesn't complain when I want to do stuff. It just works.

In fact, my Windows 7 laptop had Windows 7 on it longer than my Vista laptop had Vista on it.

In all honesty though, the problems I experienced with Vista I experienced in the early days of Windows XP and now XP is extremely solid. For me, 7 & 8 have been the only Windows to be stable out of the box. XP & Vista had me considering getting a Mac as an upgrade for the future, 7 & 8 convinced me not to.

The only problem I have had with Windows 8 is an error that has a chance of occuring on any of the Windows installments and that this problem of my desktop PC installing updates. But my copy of Windows 8 on it is currently an unlicensed copy, I suspect when I next get paid I'll get the license for it (as it's gone up in price) and see if that resolves the issue, if not, contact support.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Apr 2013 14:44
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It certainly isn't perfect, but this should answer why everyone claims it was the spawn of Satan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwagon_effect

I've been using it for years and I'm getting on just fine with it. I'm not sure about the resources it's consuming since I have the fancy graphics (Aero) turned off, and I know that it reserves a lot of memory. I've had a few BSOD's but that's it really. My main gripe initially was how they moved a lot of settings around and made everything harder to find.

If you are unsure what a particular area will do then please consult the Assistance Table at the bottom of this page.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th Apr 2013 16:15
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I used Vista up until a year ago, on my PC hailing from '06. I never got the fuss about how bad it was, as most crashes were seemingly due to the 3rd party software I was using at the time. It never BSOD'd or anything.

Windows 7 was still an excellent upgrade, though, and breathed new life into my rusting hulk of a desktop. My netbook is now running Windows 8, and along with the SSD I installed, it just...does stuff.

Boots in under ten seconds, shuts down the second I click the button. I ask it to do something, and it's done.

It's just a shame about that Metro interface.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 7th Apr 2013 16:34
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Quote: "It certainly isn't perfect, but this should answer why everyone claims it was the spawn of Satan:"


I think what you're saying is true. I hated my experience in the end, but of course MS releases updates and service packs to solve the problems. How the OS was designed, I did like that, I felt it was an improvement on XP, XP was ugly IMO. People generally seem to forget that the holy grail, XP, had its fair share of problems to begin with as well. It's only now that it's a highly stable OS that people think of it as a holy grail. My first experiences with it were nightmarish, even worse than my experiences with Vista. And well, my Windows 98 SE experience was even worse than that, but lets not go down that road. XP won back points when my experience improved as the OS became more stable for me.

I've not used Vista for a long while now, so I don't think I can speak for how it is in its current state. Of course, it had a lot of bad rep and I'm sure some of it is not justified.

Also, I think the bandwagon effect might be true for Windows 8, I was expecting to hate it due to the bad rep it got, but I ended up loving it. I wonder how many jumped on the bandwagon when the CEO of Steam starting giving Windows 8 bad rep? I remember seeing a lot of people quoting the article.

I did stumble upon this review once. The guy emphasises he's trying to be impartial, yet he does a terrible job of it. Stuff he was struggling with were very easy things to figure out. Seriously, I think people have gone nuts with the bandwagon over Windows 8. If you don't like the interface or the change, by all means, that's fine. The extent people go to in order to try and make Windows 8 look like a failure of an OS is ridiculous.

Perhaps you could make the same case for Windows Vista.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 7th Apr 2013 17:32
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I quite liked vista. It had all the great features of Windows 7 minus the awesome performance. Obviously 7 is superior now but Vista was great.

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
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Kezzla
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Posted: 8th Apr 2013 07:33 Edited at: 8th Apr 2013 07:35
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The only reason I avoided vista was because it was a brand new OS with potential bugginess and I had trusty old XP on my machine. (I remember windows 98 well)
I went with "if it aint broke, don't fix it." I stayed with xp right up until after windows 7 came out, and even then I only moved over
because I got a laptop with windows 7 installed, I figured Id give it a go and was pleased with its performance and left it on there.
same story for win8 so far.

I Think that part of users dislike of vista was due computer users getting used to a relatively stable windows 95 and then excitedly upgrading to 98 and an era of unexpected and devious computer crashing. a couple of disastrous os attempts later xp came out and it was great again, new os comes out... "hmmm, I think I'll wait." I think peoples attitude were colored by the secret fear that they were getting another 98 or even worse an ME. Poor Vista.

I guess If I had happened to buy a laptop in that vista time window I would have probably used it and decided it was ok and been quite happy with it. I have no real opinion of it as I have literally never used vista. ever.

I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are just missing.
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Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 8th Apr 2013 08:20
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Hmm, very good stuff here! I do not really know much about PC's so I am not sure how to turn the Aero theme off, and I dont know what memory it is hogging. Although, since I have never used anything else, it takes about 10 minutes to fully boot up . Dunno if that is Vista thing or Hard drive xD I was thinking about buying new 1TB 7200 rpm HHD, with windows 7 since I dont like the look of 8.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 8th Apr 2013 08:43
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Quote: "I dont know what memory it is hogging"
Not much.

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TheComet
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Posted: 8th Apr 2013 10:21
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Wait, about the memory hogging thing... Win7 never seems to use under 1 GB of memory. What on earth is it doing?

TheComet

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Apr 2013 11:46 Edited at: 8th Apr 2013 11:48
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IIRC the newer versions of Windows will allocate memory based on what's free to use, so if it can get away with it, it'll use as much memory as it can to make the OS perform smoothly. At least this is what I've read, I can't remember where, so I can't really vouch how reliable this information is.

Quote: "I went with "if it aint broke, don't fix it.""


I think that's a fair sentiment. I only went for Vista because my laptop had it. However, this didn't apply to my jump from 7 to 8, I decided to take the punt and haven't regretted it since.

Of course, from a gaming perspective, we've got access to Direct X 10 and 11 on the newer Windows OS's. That's a reason to upgrade from XP I suppose. From a business perspective, perhaps not, every office I've worked in so far has stuck to XP and it does the job.

However, the "if ain't broken don't fix it" philosophy was really present in the Cash Converters store I used to work in, they were still using DOS and floppy disks. It did the job to be fair to them.

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Van B
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Posted: 8th Apr 2013 16:35
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I dislike Vista. It's a red-headed OS, like WindowsME... by that I mean it never got the same attention that other OS'es got from Microsoft. I mean, all operating systems have teething problems, and what makes or breaks them is how the developers deal with the issues, and how quickly.

My big-daddy 21'' laptop has Vista on it, and it's sluggish, freezes up for no reason, has very poor security despite stringent limits it introduced on a user level. It's a non-operational OS for most people now, it seems to be kicked to the kerb just like ME was once XP/2000 was released. I do like Windows7 though, these dodgy OS'es tend to lead to better OS'es before very long... now we have Windows8 which I see as Microsoft testing the waters of making an OS for people who don't know what an OS is. It'll go back to a classic Windows style next time, tablet's will have to get their own variation like Windows8 - or it'll be a distinct option when installing... like windows or tablet mode as a straightforward toggle option.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 8th Apr 2013 22:34
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Look up Windows Blue, Van, they're doing the opposite of what you're suggesting.

Windows Phone and Windows itself will become one operating system, and the Metro interface will be the focal point.
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Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 9th Apr 2013 01:37
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I heard microsoft is admitting 8 was not for PC and was a slop through and instead will be releasing windows blue, is that true? I guess I should wait to see how Blue is before getting new Hard Drive and OS.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 9th Apr 2013 21:11
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Blue is Windows 8 with a greater focus on Metro...so I don't think your sources may be correct. Microsoft have taken a hammering lately, but I doubt they'd come out with that.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 9th Apr 2013 21:14
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Quote: "Blue is Windows 8 with a greater focus on Metro"
...

Are the executives at MS high or something??

Text only signature /troll
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 9th Apr 2013 21:48 Edited at: 9th Apr 2013 22:12
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Quote: "I see as Microsoft testing the waters of making an OS for people who don't know what an OS is."


Yes indeed!

Quote: "
Microsoft have taken a hammering lately, but I doubt they'd come out with that. "


Nothing new under the sun.

Windows 3.0 became Windows 3.1
Windows 95 became Windows 98 (95 wasn't too bad actually, not as good as 98)
Windows ME became Windows XP/2000 (The worst era of OS became my favourite era)
Windows Vista became Windows 7 (My second favourite)

Now it looks like we will get Windows 8.1

I did not buy Windows 8 because it came out too soon after 7; how can a world renowned operating system that took years to tweak be replaced so soon? How could Windows 8 ever be significant so early? There is nothing wrong with windows 7; they could have just upgraded the WPF platform with touch screen (which perhaps is the case), but they had to make it a profit deal so that millions of stupid people will buy it.

Ohh did I just call people who bought windows 8 stupid? I just can't quite think actually, why on earth would you buy windows 8? could someone please educate me. I can understand having it supplied for free with a new PC, but I could see myself downgrading it from what I keep hearing about it.

As for Vista, my complaint about Vista is late nights having to fix loads of peoples computers from breakdowns; the only time I've used vista was to fix it for somebody.

Microsoft can't loose, Windows is still the most widely used operating system in the world, it is not like anyone will compete in the OS market (financially).

Quote: "The extent people go to in order to try and make Windows 8 look like a failure of an OS is ridiculous."


I think I don't fall under that category because I've not used it. I just look at it, far far away in the distance.

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 9th Apr 2013 22:28
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This has made me consider getting Windows 8...

Text only signature /troll
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 9th Apr 2013 23:59
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Quote: "Ohh did I just call people who bought windows 8 stupid? I just can't quite think actually, why on earth would you buy windows 8? could someone please educate me. I can understand having it supplied for free with a new PC, but I could see myself downgrading it from what I keep hearing about it."


Why did I buy it? I was taking a punt. At the time of release I was able to upgrade from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 8 Pro for £25. I thought it was at least worth giving it a go, if it didn't work out, I would be down £25. I backed everything up and made recovery disks before doing so.

However, I was not disappointed, . There was a point during the installation I almost had second thoughts, because Windows 7 was working just fine.

I heard lots of bad things about it prior to it, in fact, I had my concerns before doing it as a result. You can see me reaching my decision in this thread. You can also see my initial reactions.

To be honest, it's not for everybody and I don't think people should feel the need to upgrade, but only upgrade if they wish to. In my experience, it hasn't lived up to the horror stories, but then I get along with its interface great, of course, if you hate the interface, you might find it harder to work with the OS.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 10th Apr 2013 00:19
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Quote: "Ohh did I just call people who bought windows 8 stupid? I just can't quite think actually, why on earth would you buy windows 8? could someone please educate me. I can understand having it supplied for free with a new PC, but I could see myself downgrading it from what I keep hearing about it."




Quote: "This has made me consider getting Windows 8..."


I got it for my netbook because it seems to speed it up, makes boot and shutdown times irrelevant, and I just bypassed Metro altogether. I actually kinda like the desktop without the Start Bar, as I only have a sparse collection of programs on here for out and about work.
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Chris Tate
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Posted: 10th Apr 2013 01:00 Edited at: 10th Apr 2013 01:45
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Quote: "This has made me consider getting Windows 8..."


Haha! Damn right.

Why do they need all these large buttons for?

OK on a mobile phone there is a practical reason, being a small device;

but ... I can't see myself clicking 300 pixel buttons to launch programs... Just no! Don't put a 300 pixel kindergarden friendly button in my face, what are they trying to say to me, I'm too stupid to see what what it says. -- [ I N B O X ] -- oooooh, ahhhh. Why would anyone make such large screen buttons on a desktop PC?....

You know what; perhaps it is their TV media device movement, could be geared to large screens....


Quote: "At the time of release I was able to upgrade from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 8 Pro for £25."


Now that is what you call an investment, £25 that makes perfect sense. I would also get a brand shiney new windows operating system for less money than a logitech mouse anyday of the year. I'd probably buy it and install it on PC number 4 to play around with it and let my little nephews use it.

Indeed --> from the thread"But £24.99 for an upgrade from Windows 7 Pro to Windows 8 Pro and Windows Media Centre package for free? I think that's worth the punt. "

Quote: "
In my experience, it hasn't lived up to the horror stories, but then I get along with its interface great, of course, if you hate the interface, you might find it harder to work with the OS."


I see your point. When I often change my phone, I tend to like sticking with the android setup, so I guess the same applies with windows 8.

I remember when people didn't get the start menu when it came out; but I liked it. I can testify that I am not afraid of interfaces, as I transitioned from Cinema 4D to Blender, one of the worst UI transitions you can make. I might check out what it is like to do business and programming on it. But there are a ton of other things I want to buy long before Windows 8.

Quote: "I got it for my netbook because it seems to speed it up, makes boot and shutdown times irrelevant"


So it seems to speed up boot times and makes boot and shutdown times irrelevant. Thanks CoffeeGrunt, that almost sounds worth a £50 upgrade, but my boot times are quite fine actually.

Why do people get trigger happy with posting pictures to put their point across? There's no need for picture aids;.. Although, I look sexy in that photo lol; keep up the spectacular picture posting Grunt

Quote: "
if you hate the interface, you might find it harder to work with the OS."


I'm sure there are settings in the control panel to cut out all the motion tweens; otherwise if I was forced to use it, I'd have to. But be honest, do you really prefer the new interface to the old? Does it improve workflow?

Again, I think I see what they are up to. I'm starting to think this is really their future TV media computer and XBox 720 interoperability platform; Windows 8 is perfect for a large screen.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 10th Apr 2013 01:10
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Quote: "Thanks CoffeeGrunt, that almost sounds worth a £50 upgrade, but my boot times are quite fine actually."


...You just quoted it from Sepp as half that? Is there a need to be the overbearing arse you are coming across as, really?

You can work in W8 without using Metro, you can go straight to the Desktop on boot, and never see it again if you want to.

I'm not aiming to sell it to you anyway, I don't intend on it for my desktop because it's improvements are negligible. However, for power consumption, boot times, and speed, it is well tailored to low-power, portable computing. Hence it worked well in the netbook I bought.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Apr 2013 03:26
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Quote: "as I transitioned from Cinema 4D to Blender, one of the worst UI transitions you can make. "


I can feel for you. I tried that one...and failed. Now I use Carrara, which is at a more manageable price tag. Too much of a cheapskate to get a newer C4D.

But if you're not going to like an interface, you're not going to really enjoy an OS. With phones, I agree, it's a similar thing, I had played with a few before settling for a Windows Phone 7 with my Lumia 800 and I am glad I did. I didn't dislike the Android or iOS interfaces (I love my iPod Touch, even if I did render it obselete), just the Lumia felt right. I think the Galaxy SII was the same price.

I think interface is often a deciding factor, it can be a hit & miss for people - obviously metro was a risk and I can there are many who don't like it. Personally, I would have made it an optional feature without the need to exploit third part software. But I do love third party developers, at least they can brighten up an OS for you.


Quote: "But be honest, do you really prefer the new interface to the old? Does it improve workflow?"


In all honesty, yes, I do prefer it. I think there's still tweaks to be made. I move very quickly through the interface - it looks big and it's logical to think it'll be less ergonomic, but I find searching for things a lot easier on the eyes and I can locate anything I want fairly quickly. It is actually pretty easy to use IMO.

For me, the 'Start Menu' is in some ways like Stardock Fences. I used to use Fences because it's a good way to group applications on your desktop.

If I were to compare the 2 start menus, I would say the classic menu works as though you're looking through a long list (like an index page in a book) to pick out what you want. With this I think the applications I want are much more easily recognisable and quicker to spot and that has made a difference. With help of the scroll wheel I can scroll through things more quickly. But it kind of is like finding things in a media centre or on an XBox (and I think it's fair comparison), but to be honest, I've always prefered those kind of interfaces anyway.


Quote: "...You just quoted it from Sepp as half that? Is there a need to be the overbearing arse you are coming across as, really?"


I don't think they do the digital upgrade for £25 anymore, I think it was an introductory offer. I know the upgrade is still going for £50 on Amazon (my Dad just bought it for his PC), but MS's site is now charging full price for it, standard is £99.99 and Pro £189.99. So I am all the more glad I took the punt when I did.

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Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 10th Apr 2013 04:14
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Ahh, I love TekSyndicate! Anyways, I hope windows (blue) wont be like 7

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 10th Apr 2013 04:28 Edited at: 10th Apr 2013 04:29
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Quote: "Anyways, I hope windows (blue) wont be like 7"
Whaaat? I hope you mean you hope it won't be like 8.

Text only signature /troll
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 00:10
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Quote: "standard is £99.99 and Pro £189.99. So I am all the more glad I took the punt when I did."


Waaaat. Glad I upgraded sharpish, too!
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Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 08:29
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Yeah, my bad xD Sorry D:

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 11th Apr 2013 08:51
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Ah, I'm relieved.

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