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Geek Culture / Realistic Face Modelling

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 21:11
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This is the recent advancement in face modelling...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929245.900-skindeep-modelling-holds-key-to-natural-digital-faces.html#.UdW6jqxnA6A

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 21:21
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Pretty cool, although the problem with that is that as soon as its animated its immediately blasted into uncanny valley.

Only as soon as you can properly simulate the subtle motions of a human face can you ever wish to achieve believable CGI!

But a step forward nonetheless!

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Quik
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Posted: 4th Jul 2013 22:13
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can't just be me who things that the main problem does not reside within geometry, but rather light? I so seldom see light in a 3d Render, that actually makes me feel "that's believable." - it either bumps up unrealisticly, or is of an unrealistic color or whatever.

Light is the main hinderence somehow. Even the picture in that link, the one where it says "Could be someone you know?" feels wrong, and that's mainly because of the light - and how smooth the face looks.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 00:35
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Quote: "Pretty cool, although the problem with that is that as soon as its animated its immediately blasted into uncanny valley."

My thoughts exactly. It's the animation that kills the realism.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 00:35
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Quote: "Pretty cool, although the problem with that is that as soon as its animated its immediately blasted into uncanny valley.

Only as soon as you can properly simulate the subtle motions of a human face can you ever wish to achieve believable CGI!

But a step forward nonetheless!"


I think with facial motion capture it'll look much better than normal facial animation. IMO LA NOIR did a good job attempting those subtlties.

Though I think it will still have uncanny valley, but I think it will look fantastic regardless.

This is a good step in 3D. Also, I agree with you Quik on the lighting, I think that's one of the issues with rendering, things like HDRI help but I think we've still got to work on making the lighting realistic as well.

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Ortu
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 01:53
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phototextures almost always throw it straight into uncanny valley. lighting, eyes, and animation are also big points that often fall short.

this by ysalex is just standard zbrush, hand painted textures, and some good shaders/maps. to me, this looks far more realistic than the "someone you know" photo.



Shazam!
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 02:44
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It will never look like this in any game engine any how, so to us, it is just more for films. Even real face textures look way different in fpsc, dark basic pro or every single engine I have worked with, and this is many.

Still pretty cool

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
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Indicium
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 02:46
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Quote: "never"


Never?


They see me coding, they hating. http://indi-indicium.blogspot.co.uk/
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Quik
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 02:47
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I wouldnt say I agree that "it's just for films" - any development in this area is of concern for us, not only does making high detail sculpts help us 3d people expand our knowledge, but who knows - we might be able to utilize it in normals, etc.

Just saying we shouldnt disregard it just because it isnt strictly related to games :3



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Mobiius
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 03:23
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Quote: "It will never look like this in any game engine any how"

You mean no game engine of this generation.

Look at characters in a xbox/ps2 game, then look at them in an xbox 360/ps3 game. Quite a leap in quality don't you think??

Now imagine the quality of the characters in an xbox one/ps4 game. What about the next generation? 3d graphics in games are only limited by the hardware they run on, which is getting better and better every day.

This is my current project, check it out! [href]forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=204576&b=8[/href]
This is my website, check it out! [href]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/href]
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Libervurto
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 03:41 Edited at: 5th Jul 2013 03:47
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I second the lighting issue (or third or fourth or wherever we are now). Skin is translucent, so when light hits it "dances" around between the layers of skin to produce a subtle glow. This is the main difference between that great render Ortu posted and the "Could be someone you know?" picture. His skin looks too opaque and unresponsive to the light, there just isn't that range of colour you would expect to see in a human face. Sure there is shininess and shadow, but it doesn't look like skin. The guy's head looks solid, whereas the girl looks fleshy.

Maybe we are judging too heavily based on a small image.

[edit] Wow that render is really impressive. If you look at the darker side of her face you can even see very fine hairs on her cheek.
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TheComet
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 22:26 Edited at: 5th Jul 2013 22:26
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There's this, which runs on the Titan. (Jump to 8:45 if you want to skip all of the talk):



TheComet

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Ortu
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 22:40
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yeah, that quality of skin layers is known as subsurface scattering (SSS), and there are real-time shaders for it though they are quite expensive in term of fps, and they will still far short, or look waxy without the necessary detailed lighting data being calculated and passed in.

as far as gaphical improvements, we have had some big leaps in the last decade, but i think we will/are starting tohit a point of diminishing returns in the benefit we gain from simply throwing more processing power at the problem. to get this true photorealism in realtime, we will need to look at how we render, the techniques used, and find clever solutions beyond raw power.

adaptive tesselation is a good current example.

some sort of predictive rendering, in which high quality renders are run off on a separate thread before being needed could help if the predictions of what will be needed could be made accurate enough to not create mostly wasted renders that never end up being needed.

Shazam!
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Jul 2013 23:36
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Quote: "There's this, which runs on the Titan. (Jump to 8:45 if you want to skip all of the talk):"


I think that the animation looks good, and the skin looks thick. The eyes, and ears look bad, but it is a skin demo so they don't really count.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 03:20
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Thanks Comet, that looks much more impressive in motion.
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Wolf
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 05:14
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I dont care! I find the faces and characters in current games to be fantastic really! And I anticipate gaming to go in a more stylized and cartoony direction rather than realism anyway.

http://www.serygalacaffeine.com
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 07:24
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Quote: "And I anticipate gaming to go in a more stylized and cartoony direction rather than realism anyway."


I agree with that 100 percent.

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Quik
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 07:29 Edited at: 6th Jul 2013 07:31
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faces in current games do indeed look fantastic, well... atleast geometry vise, and texture.. animation quality is stuck to where we were 4 years ago.
Motion capture? I really, honestly cant tell, because the faces still look like theyre just moving, with a voice tacked on. In cutscenes I can tell they used motion capture... or atleast tried

oh well ^^ Stylized gaming I do appreciate, even if it currently feels like all games are going with the exact same style: Torchlight/World of warcraft style.
ah, and some games go with the borderline style..



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 12:10
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I don't think that games have a design direction. A major part of games design is originality, and originality suggests that you can't have a common style.

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Ortu
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 00:03
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skin, lighting, and most of the facial morphing really is impressive in that video. eyes still felt off most f the time but it was the teeth oddly enough that felt the most out of place.

Shazam!
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Wolf
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 01:40
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Quote: "I don't think that games have a design direction."


That would be neat, but every major hit drags a long half a dozen similary designed games.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 02:45 Edited at: 7th Jul 2013 02:47
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Quote: "That would be neat, but every major hit drags a long half a dozen similary designed games."


That's not a direction, that's a trend. Different. I don't need to follow a trend. That's the difference between some people.

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