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Geek Culture / Millions of Honey Bees Found Dead in Canada

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TheComet
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 21:35 Edited at: 6th Jul 2013 21:36
(From tumblr...)


http://now.msn.com/millions-of-honeybees-found-dead-in-canada

If you aren’t totally quaking in your boots at the news of millions of bees dead, yet again, you’re nuts.

this should be concerning a lot more people than it is

not only because bees are one of the most important animals in the world and their job is a lot more than gathering honey but also because they are what scientists refer to as an "indicator species"

this means that when their populations start dwindling and then rapidly dropping, humans need to watch out because that means that environmental factors are too difficult for THEM to live in, so it might be difficult for US to live in, too. bees basically act as an indication that humans have a lot to worry about and when they start dying like this it deserves a lot more than a few headlines.


http://www.helpsavebees.co.uk/index.html

Most of us can only do little things, right? But it still counts. Please take a moment and visit the above website.

Also, a very important thing not specifically mentioned there: Buying organic foods in your local supermarket will make the companies that sell you those products put more effort into organic stuff and less effort into crops/produce that require massive amounts of pesticides.

Nobody is really sure why the bees are disappearing (and if you make a Medusa Cascade joke I will murder you) but it’s likely to be a combination of factors and what’s BIG on that list are commercial chemicals used in farming. Buying organic food is a massive, massive help to all kinds of ecosystems worldwide, and you as the buyer have the companies’ collective balls in your hand by controlling which products sell and which don’t. Buy smart. Save bees (and all kinds of other wildlife).

TheComet

Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Jul 2013 23:55 Edited at: 6th Jul 2013 23:58
For real? That's terrible. And there was me worrying about going to hell/limbo because I eat shellfish.

I don't buy organic food because I think it's all nonsense, worrying about pesticides that actually help the crops give bigger yields. That and the fact that 'organic' meat means the animals don't receive antibiotics when they are ill, meaning they have to suffer the illness and possibly die from it.

That said, I do care about the ecosystem and I feel that we should do what we can to preserve it as it is (as long as it doesn't involve wasps, they are a pain in the backside). Bees are nice, they do their job and don't bother you if you get near, unlike wasps who will go out of their way to hurt you. A-holes. ;(

I eat meat, because it's tasty. But as well as that, I feel that by eating meat we meat-eaters are giving animals life that wouldn't otherwise have had life. Why would anyone breed pigs if we weren't allowed to kill them? My only issue in this area is that in some places in some countries we don't give them good enough lives. We breed them, put them in a crappy environment for a while, and then kill them and eat them. How is that fair?

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Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 00:55
37 MILLION? that's a buttload man :/



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Wolf
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 01:17 Edited at: 7th Jul 2013 01:21
Quote: "I don't buy organic food because I think it's all nonsense, worrying about pesticides that actually help the crops give bigger yields. That and the fact that 'organic' meat means the animals don't receive antibiotics when they are ill, meaning they have to suffer the illness and possibly die from it."


Who fed you that corporate propaganda?

Quote: "this should be concerning a lot more people than it is"


It does...it only feel like it doesnt because we dont know what to do about it. Argument, counter argument, theory and conspiracy theory about this will roll around and in the end none of us truely know how and why this occurs.
Its more a sense of weakness and powerlesness rather than carelessness.



-Wolf

Quote: "only issue in this area is that in some places in some countries we don't give them good enough lives. We breed them, put them in a crappy environment for a while, and then kill them and eat them. How is that fair?"


All the countries. The ones we see on the meadows are just a fraction of what we as a species consume. It comes from somewhere and what happens there to these animals is terrible...yes. But it does not change because...as you said, all you need to keep up with your habbits is the fact that it is tasty.

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Matty H
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 01:23
Quote: "I eat meat, because it's tasty. But as well as that, I feel that by eating meat we meat-eaters are giving animals life that wouldn't otherwise have had life."


I eat meat because it's tasty too. You lost me after that

I don't try to justify it, we take what we want, simple as that

Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 01:28
I eat meat because... well - why not really, it's what we have always done - and, I am under the moral side here that - as long as you kill an animal, and use EVERYTHING YOU CAN on it - it's cool.

I am, obviously - completly against just killing animals for fur, one bodypart etc.

but, as long as the most of the meat is used, and the fur whenever possible, then yeah - i'll eat it.

Now, i don't do much research, and thats just because I am lazy, but I would absolutly stop buying from a specific place if i find out they treat the animals badly and or don't use as much as possible of them.



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Wolf
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 01:36 Edited at: 7th Jul 2013 01:46
I dont mind it if people have this point of view. I'm a vegetarian,but none of the "moral crusader" kind.I dont remind my friends when we are out eating that they eat a dead animal or anything obnoxious like that (these people are not a stereotype by the way, they exist by the thousands)

Meat is too deeply integrated in our culture to disappear from our plates anytime soon.

Its just that the amount that is consumed and the sheer mindlessness and ignorance about the heritage and ingredients of their food (not just meat) that people have is astonishing. I mean! Come on! Thats how our body works. Garbage in -> Garbage out.

A majority of people just shove whatever in their face without any sense of consequences or the resources involved.

If you have any interest in antrophology, you may know that different bodytypes, size and features have evolved due to location and food where these people lived.

Now go in some discounter or fast food place and LOOK at these people.

I'm not an ignorant a-hole here, I know that many people cannot afford good food...its just that I see many disgusting middle class housewives that prefer to feed their children trash rather than spend the extra bugs ...to save for a nicer car.



-Wolf

Quote: " I feel that by eating meat we meat-eaters are giving animals life that wouldn't otherwise have had life."


An interesting statment for a science fiction novel. Where they breed a race of subhuman slaves and justify it like that.
I digress...I know. Its just that I write scifi shortstories.

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Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 02:01
well wolf... when i talk meat, i don't really talk fastfood - or, atleast it's not the first thing that jumps to my mind



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 02:42
Pity you can't reset Earth back to 1980. So take away everything that has changed since then. And mobile phones would have to go. And I would be glad.

RedFlames
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 03:46 Edited at: 7th Jul 2013 03:46
That's pretty horrible. And you have to keep in mind that bees are responsible for actually pollinating all the plants, so with out them that doesn't work, right? What would happen if there were no bees anymore? I'm not an expert on that by any means so I honestly dunno.
I recently heard a story from someone (dunno if it's true though) that in some parts of china or somewhere they don't have enough bees anymore to pollinate their crops and have to send workers in to do it manually.

It's pretty darn disturing if you think about it like that...

@Wolf:
Hm, my sister "became" vegetarian a couple month ago, and it's not her reminding me that I eat dead animals... I sometimes say that to her, like "Hey, look I'm eating a dead animal" ... I guess I'm weird.

My mother works at a wholefood shop (is that what it's called? In german it's "Bioladen" based of the word "biologisch" (biological) = "organic" ... anyways, not important. xD) and I'm used to eating organic food and tofu and all that weird stuff since I was little and I don't mind it. I definitly don't think it's all crap.

Another (controversial?) thing I recently read was an article saying it would not really be good for the environment if everyone suddenly stopped eating meat, because then you'd have to produce tons more crops and the monocultures would harm the natural ecosystem and stuff. But breeding cattle en mass is not really better...

Also keep in mind these are just things I read/heard and don't have a source on at the moment, so yeah.

And a completely unrelated but equally disturbing thing:
http://sprinterlife.com/2012/01/pacific-trash-vortex.html
Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 04:50
Quote: "Who fed you that corporate propaganda?"


What? So an 'organic' animal is allowed to receive antibiotics?

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Libervurto
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 05:26
It is not just bees that pollinate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophily but we know bee populations, think how many other pollinating insects have died along with them. Only 10% of flowering plants are pollinated without animal assistance.
Phaelax
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 07:55
Quote: "when i talk meat, i don't really talk fastfood"

Fast food meat is mostly soybeans and "filler".

The honey bee population has been declining rapidly over the past few years and it's not a good sign. We need bees to pollinate the flowers.

As far as yellow jackets go, those things can die! I'm sick of knocking their hive off my garage.



Quote: "And a completely unrelated but equally disturbing thing:
http://sprinterlife.com/2012/01/pacific-trash-vortex.html"

Quote: " Back then he warned that unless consumers cut back on their use of disposable plastics, the plastic stew would double in size over the next decade"

That makes no sense to cut back on plastics. I'm not throwing my garbage away into the ocean. So if this story is true, the problem lies within waste management and people need to be asking how its getting into the ocean. Also, consider tsunamis. I'm sure those suck in a lot of garbage when they hit big cities.

Quik
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 09:12
do agree - we sincerely need to consider how we handle garbage. and we would most likely need to improve it A LOT



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Thraxas
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 12:25
Quote: "Pity you can't reset Earth back to 1980. So take away everything that has changed since then. And mobile phones would have to go. And I would be glad."


And we'd lose all the advances in medical science, and all scientific discoveries in general. So probably not a great thing
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 12:51
Life will find a way, either through bees gaining an immunity, or flowers adapting to their new circumstances. Nature has surprised us a thousand times over by thriving in places it shouldn't be able to. Mother Nature's got this.
Melancholic
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 13:43
Quote: "Life will find a way, either through bees gaining an immunity, or flowers adapting to their new circumstances. Nature has surprised us a thousand times over by thriving in places it shouldn't be able to. Mother Nature's got this."


This really doesn't warrant a reply, but really? You think we should leave the survival of our race to ignorance and unfounded faith?


I can count to banana...
Indicium
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 16:03
Its worked for millions of years, whether the disasters are man made or not.


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TheComet
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 16:44 Edited at: 19th Jul 2013 14:12
I can't believe some of the comments people are making here.

Quote: "Life will find a way, either through bees gaining an immunity, or flowers adapting to their new circumstances. Nature has surprised us a thousand times over by thriving in places it shouldn't be able to. Mother Nature's got this."


Quote: "Its worked for millions of years, whether the disasters are man made or not."


MOD EDIT (Van-B): No. This is not an acceptable image for this forum, and you know that. If you had 1 ounce of sense you wouldn't post it, you'd at least link it with a warning. I don't care where it's from, the bottom line is that no parent expects to see that on this forum.

Or how mother nature solved deforestation, where still to this day 23'000 animals per year go extinct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation

Or how mother nature has solved the unimaginable amount of garbage floating around in our ocean: http://sprinterlife.com/2012/01/pacific-trash-vortex.html (RedFlames posted this earlier, but no one even noticed).

Bees are responsible for producing over 1/3 of our food. This isn't a problem that is just going to "fix itself through mother nature", it's up to you. The fact that they are dying already disproves that "mother nature is fixing itself".

TheComet

Melancholic
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 16:52 Edited at: 7th Jul 2013 16:58
Quote: "Its worked for millions of years, whether the disasters are man made or not."


Burden of proof is on you here mate, your trying to argue about something that isn't quantifiable, "nature". That being said the animals at Chernobyl don't seem to be doing too good, neither the animals effected by Exon Valdez, hell look around you, bees dying by the millions, sound good?

Quote: "I can't believe some of the comments people are making here."


Ignorance seems almost encouraged on this forum


I can count to banana...
xplosys
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 17:01
I thought this was interesting. It's the second article I found that describes the urban population as "on the increase". Life finds a way? Anyway.... from the perspective of a bee keeper.

Quote: "I was, until recently, a hobby beekeeper. Believe it or not, it is actually stress relieving to work a bee hive because you really cannot afford to have your mind wander to other things. So yes, urban beekeepers do not see the declines that commercial bee keepers see. The new pesticides are actually better for bees because they are less toxic to bees than the pesticides they are replacing. Commercial beekeepers are a big part of the problem since they now approach beekeeping like factory farming. They pull too many resources out of their hives and push them to do too much. In December they start feeding their bees corn syrup and soybean based protein patties (not ideal bee food) in the middle of winter to artificially stimulate the growth of the hive so they can ship them to California in February for almond pollination. Why? Because the price for almond pollination has increased from around $40-50 per hive to $125-200 per hive. 4-6 weeks later they pack them up again on an 18 wheeler and ship them off to pollinate oranges, or cucumbers, or blueberries, etc. in some other part of the country, and then move them again to another crop or to alfalfa for the summer. Moving bees on the highway on the back of a truck is stressful and you can see that it slows the hives down quite a bit every time it happens. Every year bees are trucked from as far away as Florida and Minnesota to California for almonds and then back, so any new bee disease arising is transported each year to where most of the nation’s bees congregate and then redistributed across the country. In the last decade a lot of bees are raised in Australia or other countries and shipped to the USA (yes even bees are outsourced), so bee diseases are more easily finding their way here and a lot of new diseases have. Bee keepers also have a habit of requeening their hives every year to optimize the vigor of their hives, so if there are any disease resistant queens out there they are killed and replaced by an inbred commercially produced queen. Finally, there are a lot of things we still don’t know about bees. Recently we have learned that bees need a natural fermentation of pollen to occur in order to make the proteins digestible for bees and that the new fungicides inhibit this process. All the bee journals are now showing that bee losses are reduced when bees are fed well, especially with pollen and honey – surprise!"


http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/01/honey-bee-extinction/

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Matty H
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 17:54
Life will find a way, but it might be without bees and humans

Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 23:33 Edited at: 7th Jul 2013 23:34
But...
http://now.msn.com/millions-of-honeybees-found-dead-in-canada
source ->
http://living.msn.com/life-inspired/the-daily-dose-blog-post?post=360eaab3-d646-40b2-9a98-cc3ee5896cc6>1=32236
"Complete story" ->
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/07/01/over-30-million-bees-found-dead-in-elmwood-canada
"Source" ->
http://www.thepost.on.ca/2013/06/19/bees-dying-by-the-millions

And the comments include blaming Monsanto for everything. So the reliability of any assertions in the sources are between a skype spam message and something a twitchy guy would tell me on a subway.

I don't doubt the bees died. But like with xplosys's message, there are tooooo many reasons this could have happened to try to choose one without more specific info.

And I agree that life finds a way. But that doesn't mean crops etc. won't suffer to the point of human starvation, so it's kind of a moot point. An alien might look at earth and say, "Eh, whatever, the humans will figure it out." But that's the privelege of a 3rd party observer; We actually have to actively do things to get stuff done!


"I <3 u 2 bbz" - Dark Frager
TheComet
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 23:43
Quote: "And the comments include blaming Monsanto for everything. So the reliability of any assertions in the sources are between a skype spam message and something a twitchy guy would tell me on a subway."


Exactly. No one knows why the bees are dying yet, there are merely assumptions.

TheComet

Thraxas
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Posted: 7th Jul 2013 23:51
Quote: "Life will find a way, but it might be without bees and humans
"


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 00:29
Life usually finds a way, but it doesn't always. Species die out, much of nature has not found the best way to adapt with humans. Bees are a massive contribution to pollenation and are important in ecosystems, so it is a problem when so many of them die. So I think problems will be created if bees die out, but should they do so, humans will have to adapt and I think we're intelligent and capable enough of finding a way, but if we do, I suspect it'd be an expensive endeavour. But bees aren't the only pollenator.

I can see why pesticides are used, it is a way of boosting crop yield, but there are methods of getting rid of pests without these pesticides, but of course, remember pesticides is only an assumption, we don't know what killed them. Regardless I think you have to be careful with pesticides, they can kill animals you didn't intend to.

I live by a farm, they used to use pesticide to kill off rats, sadly they also killed one of our cats. We found him dead in a field and the cause of death was the accumulation of rat poison. One rat wouldn't do him harm, but more than one could be deadly and it seemed in that instance, it was.

You can get rid of pests of course by using more natural means like introducing a natural predator. Well, I guess my farmer's choice should have been to have cats on the farm. Cats will kill rats. I remember learning most of this stuff in GCSE science. Of course for some species they themselves can become pests for another reason. I don't think there's necessarily the 'perfect' method. But I think it's usually better to go with the least harmful.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 01:05
Nature can't keep up with mankind. We have already wiped out many species.. Dodo, Woolly Mammoth, Neanderthal Man. With a nuclear war we can wipe out most of the planet. And mankind can be wiped out just as easily in the end.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 02:52
Quote: "This really doesn't warrant a reply, but really? You think we should leave the survival of our race to ignorance and unfounded faith?"


As my current employment is in the realm of marine mammal conservation, I personally don't believe that my view is ignorance, no.

You see, the largest supposed contributor to strandings is noise. Yet while this is theorised, there is as much data against this theory as there is for it. Ocean noise probably does cause strandings or other strange behaviour, but it may also be overfishing causing them to forage for food in more dangerous areas.

The sad thing is that so little money is spent on actually finding this stuff as opposed to engineering an iPhone with an extra inch of screen, that it's quite tragic.

Quote: "Yeah sure, just like nature solved the Chernobyl incident:"


Even though the area is now thriving with returning life in the wake of the incident, cited by several people as an example of a post-apocalyptic setting. sure, the trees grew with their roots in the air for a few years, while others had no back, but now they are growing healthily.

Quote: "We have already wiped out many species.. Dodo, Woolly Mammoth, Neanderthal Man."


Oh come on. At least pick ones we genuinely are killing, like Rhinos, Elephants and Yangtze Dolphins.

The woolly mammoth absolutely did not die out due to the world warming back up again, and the Dodo was killed by rats, admittedly carried by our ships. Neanderthal man was probably partially killed off by us, but also didn't adapt to the world due to several theorised reasons. There's also that cannibalism thing that a few scientists have drawn conclusions from their remains for that.

Besides, humans are generally terrible at getting along. We're born to kill other stuff, that's pretty much what got us where we are today. Technology is a force for evolution unlike anything else in nature's arsenal. We can adapt in years or decades what would normally take millenia for another animal.

So I personally believe that we'll sort it out in due time. For example, Seismic Guns used to create sonic pulses that map seabeds are hypothesised to be a major cause of cetacean disruption in operations. There is a lot of money in making these guns both quieter and making them have a more focused beam. Not just because of the environmental concerns, but also due to the better resolution and efficiency this would offer.

Besides, a lot of people are still driving Priuses. I don't know what's worse: the damage they do to the environment with them, or the overwhelming smugness they have in believing they're doing far more good than anyone else they know.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 03:01 Edited at: 8th Jul 2013 03:06
Quote: "Oh come on. At least pick ones we genuinely are killing, like Rhinos, Elephants and Yangtze Dolphins.

The woolly mammoth absolutely did not die out due to the world warming back up again, and the Dodo was killed by rats, admittedly carried by our ships. Neanderthal man was probably partially killed off by us, but also didn't adapt to the world due to several theorised reasons. There's also that cannibalism thing that a few scientists have drawn conclusions from their remains for that."


None of that makes any sense. The woolly mammoth what? The dodo huh? And the Neanderthal Man ate himself to extinction...? That's the best theory ever. "I'm the last one left... damn!, and I'm a Cannibal...damn!..Oh well time for dinner!!! The brains my favourite... what was I thinking again?"

TheComet
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 03:04
I heard somewhere that Mammoths died out because they farted too much.

It was probably a troll.

Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 05:08
Quote: "Mother Nature's got this."

Tell that to the hundreds of species that are extinct thanks to us.
easter bunny
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 05:24 Edited at: 8th Jul 2013 06:13
edit: I decided to remove my abortion posts

Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 06:06
What does abortion have to do with bees? I'm pretty sure abortion is one of the topics that aren't allowed on here.
easter bunny
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 06:09 Edited at: 8th Jul 2013 06:11
Quote: "I'm pretty sure abortion is one of the topics that aren't allowed on here. "

you're right
Quote: "I know I really shouldn't have posted this, but I get so mad about this sort of thing"

edit: I decided to remove my abortion posts

bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 06:42
Aint gonna be no babies if we all starve to death.

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
easter bunny
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 06:52
If all the bees died, we would still survive.
Apparently 1/3 comes from bees. well if they weren't here, we'd still eat, just not the same things, I reckon we'd have a bigger seafood diet.

mr Handy
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 08:13 Edited at: 8th Jul 2013 08:18
Quote: "I dont remind my friends when we are out eating that they eat a dead animal or anything obnoxious like that"

Probably it's not better to eat alive animals. Don't forget that in our Merry World many animals often eat other animals alive. Suffering and screams included.

Quote: "Apparently 1/3 comes from bees. well if they weren't here, we'd still eat, just not the same things, I reckon we'd have a bigger seafood diet."

That although will involve alcohol, weed, medicine, and other important stuff that all people need. Weird diet is not the biggest problem.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 12:12
Quote: "None of that makes any sense. The woolly mammoth what? The dodo huh? And the Neanderthal Man ate himself to extinction...? That's the best theory ever. "I'm the last one left... damn!, and I'm a Cannibal...damn!..Oh well time for dinner!!! The brains my favourite... what was I thinking again?""


The woolly mammoth died out because the Ice Age ended. Mankind was nowhere near populous enough to kill off a species.

The Dodo inhabited one, sole island, and were eaten by rats because they build their nests in the undergrowth, being flightless and all. This meant that rats were able to outbreed them and eat the eggs from their nests, too.

Sure, yeah. We killed off Neanderthal man. I admitted that. I'm pretty sure they tried to do the same thing back, though.

I never get why biologists can study for years about Survival of the Fittest, but get all twitchy at how primitive man overdid it. It's not like there's thousands of cases of animals accidentally migrating to an area with abundant prey and no predators, and gorging themselves to the top of the food chain.

Quote: "I heard somewhere that Mammoths died out because they farted too much.

It was probably a troll."


Implying that I'm trolling? I do more for animal conservation in a month at work than you do in a year of these armchair crusades.

Funnily enough polar bears are dying out due to Global Warming, and one of the biggest contributors is the massive cattle farms belching out methane. I'm guessing it's the four stomachs thing.

So actually cows are farting everything else to death right now. But have fun convincing McDonalds and Burger King to switch to Tofu.
Quik
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 12:39
Quote: "Implying that I'm trolling? I do more for animal conservation in a month at work than you do in a year of these armchair crusades."


please, no need to do that.
Yes, you work with animal conservation, and trust me - It's awesome that you do, atleast to me - and all creds to you for it. However, no need to higher yourself from everyone else here as an argument to that, that was.. idno - it probably felt more negative that it was.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 17:38
I've been successfully managing our garden at home along organic principles for 20 years. For example, we today harvested our first new potatoes of the season. Those are grown from stock we first purchased 17 years ago and they have not in any year been given either conventional fertilizers or conventional pesticides. The only pesticide I allow is a variety of slug pellets which is considered environmentally acceptable by part of the organic community. I have never needed to treat them against blight - considered mandatory by most chemical farmers. It's just a matter of doing your homework and buying the right varieties in the first place.

Those who say organic farming is nonsense just don't know what they are talking about. Environmentally destructive chemical farming gets virtually all the subsidies. If the same effort went into supporting and researching more effective organic methods then we would all have a much healthier, interesting and sustainable world to live in.

For those interested in saving bees (and numerous other worthy causes) check out the following link from Avaaz.org:

Petition to save bees

I signed that particular petition a few months back and it was partly successful in obtaining a partial EU ban on the main suspect.

The main problem with chemical agriculture is that the industry ends up on a never ending spiral of costs as one pesticide fails, either by causing a build-up of immunity or by destruction of natural predators. We are getting the same problems with antibiotics - there are concerns in the medical world that the routine use of antibiotics is causing resistant strains to appear at an ever increasing rate. This is in danger of outstripping our ability to find new antibiotics - and chemical agriculture is one of the worst offenders.

And if you really want to cheer yourselves up have a look at this film:

http://www.midwayfilm.com

If you think he's making it up then look at this:

http://www.fws.gov/midway/

then this:

http://www.fws.gov/midway/management.html

and most especially:

http://www.fws.gov/midway/Midway_Atoll_NWR_Cigarette_Lighters.pdf

The evidence of man's collective destructive influence on the world is plain for all to see. Certainly mankind has solved many problems in the past but the fear now is that we are now creating problems faster than we can deal with them. No doubt remnants of humanity will survive some sort of apocalyptic crisis but why just sit back and wait for it to happen?
Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 18:34
I think it's fantastic we have all these online petitions and activists who can raise awareness. It's these sort of activities that will reinstate democracy.

I can imagine people not taking these things seriously because it requires so little effort to sign an online petition, but that's the beauty of it. If we make the process as easy as possible then, sure, we're going to see a lot of stupid petitions but we are also giving people a chance to exercise their democratic rights, people who otherwise would struggle to be politically aware and active. The ease at which information is relayed and opinion gathered increases its validity, it does not diminish it.
Melancholic
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Posted: 8th Jul 2013 19:55
Quote: "Even though the area is now thriving with returning life in the wake of the incident, cited by several people as an example of a post-apocalyptic setting. sure, the trees grew with their roots in the air for a few years, while others had no back, but now they are growing healthily."


I'd love to see your source on this, nature is thriving because of the exclusion zone... And the radiation hasn't nearly died down yet, nor will it for the next couple of thousand years (a generous estimate considering the half life of plutonium is 80 million years)


I can count to banana...
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 9th Jul 2013 23:43
What is your point exactly? Your first link has the following quite clear passage (my emphasis):

Quote: "Baker thinks organisms can cope with the destructive effects of radiation, at least to a point, after which the damage becomes irreparable and the species might die out, with domino impacts. A strong argument was also made for nature in balance with radiation by journalist Mary Mycio in her authoritative book, Wormwood Forest: A Natural History of Chernobyl. During her research, she made a complete U-turn on both the value of nuclear power and the assessment of Chernobyl. "Contrary to the myths and imagery, Chernobyl's lands had become a unique, new ecosystem," she wrote. "Defying the gloomiest predictions, it had come back to life as Europe's largest nature sanctuary, teeming with wildlife. Like the forests, fields and swamps of their unexpectedly inviting habitat, the animals are all radioactive. To the astonishment of just about everyone, they are also thriving." A starkly different view is put forth by the likes of Timothy Mousseau, a Canadian-trained biologist at the University of South Carolina. He has called Chernobyl a "sink," where animals migrate because there are so few humans around but then struggle to build new populations, rapidly dying off. A high proportion of the birds he and his colleagues examined suffer from radiation-induced sickness and genetic damage. Mousseau's study, published in March, said populations of bumblebees, butterflies, spiders, grasshoppers and other invertebrates were low in the most contaminated areas and barn swallows – only a third of which are reproducing – have a high rate of genetic abnormalities. Scientists worry mutated birds will pass on their abnormal genes to the global population. Mousseau has now started work on a long-term study of humans who live in the area, a study involving more than 11,000 adults and 2,000 children."


Looks like a typically misleadingly headlined press article to me.

Life perhaps - but what sort of life? Also, it's not much help to us if we become one of the extinct life forms. Why not just try to keep our planet clean and safe instead of continually dicing with death?
xplosys
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Posted: 10th Jul 2013 00:09
Quote: "Why not just try to keep our planet clean and safe instead of continually dicing with death?"


Where's the thrill in that?

I am the underground.
bitJericho
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Posted: 17th Jul 2013 03:27
Quote: "Life always finds a way."


There's no doubt if we destroy ourselves life in some form will continue on. It is sheer arrogance to believe that we will destroy all life. It's just highly likely if we continue on the way we are we will destroy *us* and probably a whole bunch of mammals and other larger creatures.

Visit my blog http://www.canales.me.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 17th Jul 2013 16:38
Yep.
Image All
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Posted: 18th Jul 2013 10:04 Edited at: 18th Jul 2013 10:04
bees are dying because the illuminati communist elite want to cull the human population

/thread

lel

Libervurto
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Posted: 18th Jul 2013 12:51
Quote: "bees are dying because the illuminati communist elite want to cull the human population"

Ecological warfare? That's actually a pretty terrifying prospect.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 18th Jul 2013 16:38
Quote: "Ecological warfare? That's actually a pretty terrifying prospect."


It is - and we're in the middle of one right now.

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