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Geek Culture / Mars One

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mr Handy
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Posted: 6th Aug 2013 17:28 Edited at: 6th Aug 2013 17:32
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It is time when a dream (or nightmare) come true!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_One



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Fluffy Rabbit
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Posted: 6th Aug 2013 18:02
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A friend of mine proposed a different kind of nightmare. He said that the possibility exists, given the length of stay, for one of the colonists to just kill all of the others. I mean, they depend on those life support units, and if they were damaged beyond repair, everybody's dead. Don't take this the wrong way, I still support this project and think that 2023 is a far better time than 2043. Man is all grown up now, and it's high time he moved out of his mother's house.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 6th Aug 2013 22:26
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It depresses me that the only way they can get funding for this is through TV rights. Why does everything have to turn a profit to be worthwhile? Isn't the whole point of living to do things like this? What is so great about money? What are you going to spend it on that is better than a mission to Mars?
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xplosys
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Posted: 7th Aug 2013 00:42
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Peanut M&M's.

I am the underground.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 7th Aug 2013 01:15
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You could eat your peanut m&m's in zero-g...
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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Aug 2013 14:17
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xplosys, but what about everyone who's allergic to peanuts? That's so shortsighted. Is there one thing (candy based or otherwise) that is more worthwhile than going to Mars? Mars has no breathable atmosphere, is unlikely to support life on its own in the next couple of hundred years and it isn't even actually red but... what was my argument again?

Ok, peanut m&m's it is!


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xplosys
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Posted: 7th Aug 2013 15:52
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Haven't we screwed up enough? Do we really need another planet to decimate? It's not like we ever learn anything from our mistakes. I say we man-up, show a little class, and blink out of existence on this planet when the time comes instead of spreading out across the universe and infecting the entire galaxy.

Have a nice day.

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baxslash
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Posted: 7th Aug 2013 16:59
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Quote: "Haven't we screwed up enough? Do we really need another planet to decimate? It's not like we ever learn anything from our mistakes. I say we man-up, show a little class, and blink out of existence on this planet when the time comes instead of spreading out across the universe and infecting the entire galaxy."

Ok, thanks Agent Smith...

Quote: "Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet."



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xplosys
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Posted: 7th Aug 2013 19:03
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OK, I admit it. I'm a movie freak and a lot of my crap comes from the movies. Still, it's much more relevant and true than what comes from the talking heads and newspapers.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I should probably have included the regular m&m's as well.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 7th Aug 2013 21:17
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I don't know, I personally think this century is the one where we start to pull back the damage done. We'll never replace a lot of that which has been lost, but we'll learn the lesson for when we spread out.

It seems pretty inevitable that we'll take this path out to the stars. There's no ecosystems on Mars or the Moon to ravage, no indigenous populations to screw over. Hell, it might be a better home for us than our current one, in the end.
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xplosys
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Posted: 7th Aug 2013 21:34
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We have this thing where we think that all life is carbon based and visible. What if there turns out to be some kind of life on Mars. Even if it's microscopic, will we turn around and go home, or invade them?

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Libervurto
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 04:49
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Or worse, what if they come to us first?...
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mr Handy
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Posted: 8th Aug 2013 15:15
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Funny fact: if the show will get closed by low ratings after some time, they just die there on Mars without supply.

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Hawkblood
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Posted: 10th Aug 2013 17:15
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Quote: "Why does everything have to turn a profit to be worthwhile?"

Everyone has different aspirations in life. Some people think traveling to the next town is a waste of time. What do those people think about anyone traveling to Mars? The one thing that everyone agrees is that you need "stuff" to survive like food and water. No one can generate food and clean water without work and not everyone knows how. This is where money comes in. Different people with varying skill sets work for someone that turns that work into profit by selling that "work" and in turn pays the worker.
If you want to go to Mars, you will need to provide "work" to get yourself there. There are people that have no aspirations of going to Mars, but they have money. Directly or indirectly you convince them to exchange your "work" for money and then you use that money to buy the "work" you can't do yourself to achieve the goal of a trip to Mars.

The alternative is theft.

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 10th Aug 2013 18:16
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It'll be like big brother and the hunger games combined. Competing to get sponsors for food packages and luxuries xD
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Libervurto
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Posted: 10th Aug 2013 20:28
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@Hawkblood - It seems to me that people are so wrapped up in their selfish desires that they don't care about things that are truly worthwhile. I don't understand how a human being cannot be interested in science, it is the frontier of our natural curiosity.

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Hawkblood
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Posted: 10th Aug 2013 22:07
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Quote: "things that are truly worthwhile"

What is that? You and I may share the same desire to have people on Mars (even me), but that is not shared by everyone. Selfishness is a natural human trait. Analyze your comment. When you express the belief that everyone "should" do something or pay for something or work toward something, you are putting your own selfish desire for space travel ahead of other peoples desires to do other things with their time/money.

Believe me, I would love nothing more than to go to Mars. I would be happy with knowing we, the world, sent people out into our solar system.

The only way to achieve this goal is through private enterprise or government funding-- there is no other way. I loathe the government approach for the reasons I pointed out earlier. So, the best way is to go private. There are plenty of resources in our solar system that private industry can utilize. They just need a reason to harness those resources.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 11th Aug 2013 13:53
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Quote: "It seems to me that people are so wrapped up in their selfish desires that they don't care about things that are truly worthwhile."


That in itself is a selfish opinion. A lot of people would call it some sort of Star Trek dream, and point out that the money would be well spent feeding people or researching useful technologies.
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TheComet
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Posted: 11th Aug 2013 14:11
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I dunno, this whole thing appears awkwardly sketchy to me.

They're presenting this mission on a silver platter, it seems too good to be true. The exact risks involved aren't mentioned, and that makes me uncertain about the whole thing. And as mentioned before, the mission is riding on the assumption that the TV show will be profitable, which is just foolish.

TheComet

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rolfy
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Posted: 11th Aug 2013 22:48
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Ok, we got peanuts and the portaloo's installed, when does the inevitable tented village arrive and what bands are playing?

There are serious questions needing asked about this gig.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 06:52 Edited at: 12th Aug 2013 22:38
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Quote: "That in itself is a selfish opinion. A lot of people would call it some sort of Star Trek dream, and point out that the money would be well spent feeding people or researching useful technologies."

Finding out more about the world/universe is what we all should be doing, and science does it best. It doesn't have to be a mission to Mars.
Money being spent on scientific research is not the cause of world hunger. Whenever there's any space mission people always say things like, "We should be sortin' out the problems 'ere on Earf first!", which is a stupid attitude, we will always have problems on Earth. Science helps us solve these problems.

Quote: "So, the best way is to go private. There are plenty of resources in our solar system that private industry can utilize. They just need a reason to harness those resources."

Knowing a bit about the Challenger disaster, I cringe at the thought of privatised space travel. The problems with Challenger were caused by a corporate mentality. Space travel is still a science, once it becomes more established then it will be safe for corporations to move in and improve efficiency and cut costs. Doing so now is still dangerous.

Quote: "I dunno, this whole thing appears awkwardly sketchy to me."

I agree.



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xplosys
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 16:03
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Quote: "Finding out more about the world/universe is what we all should be doing"


Once again, you seem to think you know what's best for all of us.

Quote: "Whenever there's any space mission people always say things like, "We should be sortin' out the problems 'ere on Earf first!", which is a stupid attitude"


...and anyone who thinks differently is stupid.

Quote: "The problems with Challenger were caused by a corporate mentality."


You repeatedly show contempt for capitalism. We get it already!

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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 18:25
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Quote: "Once again, you seem to think you know what's best for all of us."

How was that a contentious statement? Whether you are launching rockets into space, travelling the world, tracing your family history, reading a book, learning to paint, etc. you are finding out more about the world around you and having a greater experience of life. If a person lacks that curiosity then they may as well be dead. Science is the forefront of that curious spirit, so it doesn't make sense to me that people would not support it, my only explanation is that they aren't scientifically literate enough to appreciate it.

Quote: "...and anyone who thinks differently is stupid."

No. I didn't call anyone stupid, I said some people have stupid reasons for arguing against space exploration.

Quote: "You repeatedly show contempt for capitalism. We get it already!"

And you repeatedly show that you can't engage in a discussion without getting personal and polarising the argument. This is hardly an anti-capitalist statement: "once it becomes more established then it will be safe for corporations to move in and improve efficiency and cut costs."


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xplosys
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 19:37
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Quote: "If a person lacks that curiosity then they may as well be dead."


You just can't stop, can you? Don't get the wrong impression. I'm not angry or even arguing with you, I actually find it amusing that with every other sentence you put others down for not thinking like you do. Maybe you just never realized it.

Brian.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 20:57
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Quote: "Money being spent on scientific research is not the cause of world hunger. Whenever there's any space mission people always say things like, "We should be sortin' out the problems 'ere on Earf first!", which is a stupid attitude, we will always have problems on Earth. Science helps us solve these problems."


You talk as if the only science worth doing involves going vertically up into space. There are fields all over we should be focusing on first.

Fusion power, improved drive mechanisms, better nutrition, shielding technologies. There is so much we should do to improve the tech to get to Mars, before we just blast off with just-gets-by tech.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 21:57 Edited at: 12th Aug 2013 22:38
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Quote: "Don't get the wrong impression. I'm not angry or even arguing with you"

Good, okay then.

Quote: "You just can't stop, can you? Don't get the wrong impression. I'm not angry or even arguing with you, I actually find it amusing that with every other sentence you put others down for not thinking like you do. Maybe you just never realized it."

What are you saying? If a person has no interest in bettering themselves (that includes seeking new experiences, not just academic) then they might as well be dead, what is your argument against that? It is human nature to be curious, and science is our best tool for explaining the universe, so people should support it.

Quote: "You talk as if the only science worth doing involves going vertically up into space. There are fields all over we should be focusing on first."

So we should research one thing at a time?

Quote: "Fusion power, improved drive mechanisms, better nutrition, shielding technologies. There is so much we should do to improve the tech to get to Mars, before we just blast off with just-gets-by tech. "

I thought we were talking generally about science funding, not this specific expedition to Mars.
Of course it's "just-gets-by tech", IT'S SCIENCE! If it was refined technology then it wouldn't be science any more, it would be engineering, and the only way to get to that position is through experimentation. That's like saying the Wright Brothers shouldn't have tried building an aeroplane until they knew which design would work.



The gluteus-maximus mammary-gland formally known as OBese87.
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Seditious
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:07
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Quote: "If a person has no interest in bettering themselves (that includes seeking new experiences, not just academic) then they might as well be dead, what is your argument against that?"


For some people life is to be enjoyed, and doesn't require you to "better yourself".

Formerly Benjamin.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:23 Edited at: 12th Aug 2013 22:31
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Quote: "For some people life is to be enjoyed, and doesn't require you to "better yourself"."

How can you enjoy something if you don't gain anything from the experience? "Self-Betterment" can be anything from learning to play a musical instrument, to trying a new topping on your pizza. If a person has no desire to gain knowledge and have new experiences then they may as well be dead, what's the alternative? Repeating the same actions over and over, what is gained from that? What life is that?

[edit] @mod - Really? I'm not allowed to put an innocent, self-deprecating pun in my signature? I've made quite a few posts with that signature. I will try to edit the ones I find.



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Seditious
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:26 Edited at: 12th Aug 2013 22:29
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Quote: "How can you enjoy something if you don't gain anything from the experience?"


Er what? Food, alcohol, sex, holidays, sports, gardening, etc.

None of these things require you to learn anything or "better yourself" to enjoy them. I really don't understand your mindset.

What is the point of focusing your life on learning if you don't enjoy life? You do realise that at the end of life you die and everything you learned will have been lost?

Formerly Benjamin.
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xplosys
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:27
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Quote: "Repeating the same actions over and over"


That about sums up my life.

I am the underground.
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baxslash
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:31
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As the great Jack Nicholson once said, "Why can't we all just get along?" (Mars Attacks)

This thread is deteriorating into an argument over how we should all live our lives. Please stop arguing over this as it's pointless, NOBODY likes to be told how to live their lives and EVERYBODY has their own ideas about it.

Anyone have anything useful or interesting to say about Mars?

"Here I am trying to do some good for the world..." - Fluffy Rabbit
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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:35 Edited at: 12th Aug 2013 22:37
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Quote: "Er what? Food, alcohol, sex, holidays, sports, gardening, etc."

And you don't gain anything from those experiences? They are completely hollow experiences for you are they? I clearly stated that it does not have to be academic.
Quote: "If a person has no interest in bettering themselves (that includes seeking new experiences, not just academic)..."


Quote: "What is the point of focusing your life on learning if you don't enjoy life? You do realise that at the end of life you die and everything you learned will have been lost?"

So are your memories and experiences. I don't see your point here.

Quote: "This thread is deteriorating into an argument over how we should all live our lives. Please stop arguing over this as it's pointless, NOBODY likes to be told how to live their lives and EVERYBODY has their own ideas about it."

Fair enough, I'll stop. I'm just amazed that I'm being attacked from all sides for saying it is natural for human beings to be curious about the world they live in.



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Seditious
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:40
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Quote: "If a person has no interest in bettering themselves"


ie. gaining something other than enjoyment. I'm going to wager that the vast majority of humans will at some point in their lives engage in something that offers nothing more than momentary pleasure. Whether it be playing a video game, eating some nice food, or going to a party.

However, I do agree that humans are naturally curious (it is a scientific fact, after all).

Formerly Benjamin.
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xplosys
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:43
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Quote: "Anyone have anything useful or interesting to say about Mars?"


Not really. Why Mars? Why not try this on the moon. It's a lot closer and has everything Mars has... which is basically nothing. I would think it's more hostile an environment and more expensive than living under the oceans, and we haven't even begun to explore that yet. And even if it works, so what. It's Mars!

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Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Aug 2013 22:44
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Quote: "ie. gaining something other than enjoyment. I'm going to wager that the vast majority of humans will at some point in their lives engage in something that offers nothing more than momentary pleasure. Whether it be playing a video game, eating some nice food, or going to a party.

However, I do agree that humans are naturally curious (it is a scientific fact, after all)."

Agreed. I didn't say we should ONLY do things to better ourselves. Boy, I must have some strange way of writing that causes mass confusion.



The gluteus-maximus mammary-gland formally known as OBese87.
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Hawkblood
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 00:18
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Quote: "The problems with Challenger were caused by a corporate mentality."

Not quite. Bureaucracy was the cause. The left hand not knowing (or caring) what the right hand was doing. There were signs of the problem, but few cared about it or thought it was a real problem. The true corporate mentality is squeezing out the most profit from an investment. If this venture goes bad, the company will be in ruins. If the government fails on a project, it just keeps going on spending the public's money on another project.

Quote: " it is natural for human beings to be curious about the world they live in.
"

That is a correct statement IMO. The problem is not that I don't find the prospect of going to Mars a worthwhile pursuit, it's that not everyone does. Your posts have given me the impression that you feel as though everyone *should* feel that way.

Quote: "Why not try this on the moon."

I agree. The Moon is just around the corner compared to Mars. Mars has an insignificant atmosphere, no Oxygen to speak of, and very little water (ice). The Moon has a little ice in one of the polar craters and can be used to make water. You can also liberate Oxygen from the titanium oxide found in abundance on the moon. The titanium can in turn be used to create structural components when combined with other elements brought from Earth. These structural components can be used to create ships in a low-G environment. These ships can be used to travel further into the solar system..... and so on....

Quote: " Boy, I must have some strange way of writing that causes mass confusion.
"

True dat.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 04:05
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Mars' atmosphere could be changed.

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Hawkblood
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 04:15
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Yes. It could be changed, but this would take decades. There are several things we could do to make Mars habitable like steering comets toward it so they crash into it leaving a mass of water vapor (the best natural greenhouse gas). The atmosphere would thicken and allow plant life to grow-- so we send the hardiest plants we have (maybe even engineer them) to generate oxygen.

The problem is not *how* we do it, it's how do we get the money and the motivation to do it.... If people with the money see profit in doing it, they will.

The fastest code is the code never written.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 04:52
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Quote: "Anyone have anything useful or interesting to say about Mars?"


Good chocolates!

Speaking of Profitable Mars, I can imagine a lot of people in the future wanting to get some space... but then again I think we get enough advertising to drive us nuts here already, anything on Mars will be plastered in advertising... even your loo seat...



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TheComet
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 15:03
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I skipped to the end because everyone was bickering about unrelated stuff, so sorry if this has been mentioned before.

Plants on mars.

http://www.nasa-usa.de/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2005/mars_plants.html

This one contains a video.
http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/2013/05/17/wageningen-ur-study-possibility-plant-growth-mars/

If we could somehow engineer something robust like an algae to survive and grow in the depths of mars (if non-frozen water even exists, that is), in a few thousand years the atmosphere would contain a lot more oxygen. It probably still wouldn't be breathable, just because of the low pressure and radiation from the sun, but perhaps some other simpler organic life form could emerge?

I'd also find it interesting to introduce a bacteria to mars. It needs to be something extremely robust, since mars is ridiculously hostile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_on_Mars)

TheComet

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mr Handy
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 16:01
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As I have siad earlier,
Quote: "Funny fact: if the show will get closed by low ratings after some time, they just die there on Mars without supply."

So, we have two events:
1. show closed because of insufficient funds.
2. emergency happens on mars and nobody there can fix it (like "water chip").
What will happen then?

"Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful"

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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 18:12 Edited at: 13th Aug 2013 18:12
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Quote: "What will happen then?"

They die. It's a one way ticket to Mars, there's no coming back, if they can't solve their problems they will die there.



The gluteus-maximus mammary-gland formally known as OBese87.
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Gingerkid Jack
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 18:35
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That could be a good idea for the show! The people do challenges to earn another piece of vital information that will stop their water supply draining or houses leaking.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 13th Aug 2013 20:53
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@Libervurto
But how about "human rights" organization reaction if show owners just stop sending them supply?

"Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful"

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Libervurto
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Posted: 14th Aug 2013 00:34
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Quote: "But how about "human rights" organization reaction if show owners just stop sending them supply?"

Oh, there are big long forms for the Mars volunteers to fill in that take care of that. They will have to sign away their rights and accept that it is a possibility.



The gluteus-maximus mammary-gland formally known as OBese87.
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Hawkblood
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Posted: 14th Aug 2013 02:00
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I'm sure it will be a contractual agreement. In this agreement, the host company (or groups of companies) agree to supply everything necessary for the participants to survive, or in an extreme case would have a "bug-out" plan where they be brought home. The company will do this because it would be bad for business to let any country's citizen die on a mission as publicized as this. The families of the participants could even sue them for wrongful death. Even the individuals involved in decision making for that company could (and should) be held personally responsible for those deaths-- serious jail time as well.

The one scenario I find disturbing is the one (mentioned earlier) where someone goes homicidal for any reason you can think of. This is where a rigorous screening process with physical a psychological tests to determine who can go and who are the crazy homicidal freaks.

@Libervurto:
Quote: "They will have to sign away their rights and accept that it is a possibility."

Have you read the form? Where is it?

The fastest code is the code never written.
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mr Handy
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Posted: 14th Aug 2013 12:36 Edited at: 14th Aug 2013 12:42
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Quote: "The one scenario I find disturbing is the one (mentioned earlier) where someone goes homicidal for any reason you can think of. This is where a rigorous screening process with physical a psychological tests to determine who can go and who are the crazy homicidal freaks."

Rating of the show will harshly increase!

"Just because you’re unique, doesn’t mean you’re useful"

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Hawkblood
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Posted: 16th Aug 2013 02:30
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I'm excited about this. It will be like air travel was in its infancy. There will be losses, but people will still want to do it just because it's new. The demand will eventually drive down the cost to a manageable amount. Sure, at first only the super-rich will be able to make trips, but eventually it will be like taking a vacation to the beach.

I know we're not talking about a resort here, but if it has any amount of success, it will turn into a tourism business for the rich and resource gathering ventures for companies.

The fastest code is the code never written.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 26th Aug 2013 09:32
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Anyone else listen to StarTalk radio? This one had quite a few questions relating to Mars missions, so I thought I'd post it here.

http://www.startalkradio.net/show/cosmic-queries-grab-bag/



Formerly OBese87.
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