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Geek Culture / Game Cube, X-Box and PS2 Programming

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Tasik
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 04:49
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Why can one not use Dark Basic Pro to make games for such systems as Game Cube X-Box and PS2?

What program might one wanna use?

Any other details?

THanks

There will always be some one a little bit faster, a little bit smarter, a little bit stronger, that some one is me =)
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Jess T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 05:00
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As far as i know, you need to use a completely different SDK, which is only purchasable from the makers of teh console (i might be wrong though).

I wanted to look into making a game for the PS1 a while back, but after hours of searching, i couldn't find a single site/link/anything that gave me any suggestions on how to go about it.

Hope I Helped...


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
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Arrow
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 05:31
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Yeah, it's possible to do it with the X-Box, but the PS2 and Gamecube run on very different software.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
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Sonic
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 05:34 Edited at: 27th Nov 2003 05:36
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For PS1 they had a scheme called Yarozee.

You signed up as a member and got a Blue Dev Playstation to run your code on and copies of Codewarrior etc for C/C++

It was pricey (around £400 I think) but just so cool. Also the games you created/burnt to CD could only be run on other Blue Dev Playstations, although The Official Playstation Magazine would publish them for you every month (the best examples).

Many of the guys who used it went on to work in the games industry. "Dog Tailz" was my favourite - a rock hard platformer as I recall. Oh happy days.

PS2 programming? That would be using the BASIC program that comes with your console then. Not quite as exciting as Yarozee but gives Sony a tax beak I understand.

XBox? I'd imagine you'd need a license from Microsoft ($$$$$$$) who would then send you the Dev kit (Dev XBox & software etc).

I believe alot of programmers like programming for emulators of consoles - you'd need to check the web. This way you don't have media problems (like creating CARTS for N64 games etc)

@Arrow - seriously - you can write an XBox game in DBPro? Are you sure? Do you know how to do that?

"My ignorance amuses me..."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 07:12
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for the XBox... i dunno, i kept hearing people making converters to XBE format - but god knows

for the GC, perhaps becuase it can only use C code and DBP is C++ Encoded for the Windows Platform
same kinda goes for the PS2, however that is capable of using C++ and DirectX ... though it has to be compiled under Codewarrior (some special things are needed that are only available with Codewarrior libraries)

The PS1 has alot of scheptical information on the net for creation but nothing valid really.
The N64 and GB/GBA on the other had have TONNES of fantastic information ... infact it wouldn't be greatly hard to actually develop for version of C or BASIC specifically for one of those formats

Dextrose v4 is a good place of information for N64/GBA/GC/DreamCast development


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
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Jess T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 07:40
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So, if i was to want to develop on the PS2, i would need to make a game in C++ and compile it useing the CodeWarrior libraries that are only available from Sony, then i would need to get a special PS2 to play/test the games on, then I'd have to give the game to the official PS2 magazine before it can actually be playable on normal playstations?

Is that right?

Sounds like they're making it hard for the little man (yet again).


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 09:05 Edited at: 27th Nov 2003 09:06
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Quote: "for the GC, perhaps becuase it can only use C code and DBP is C++ Encoded for the Windows Platform"


DBPro is encoded with C++??!?

hmmm...I always thought it was basic... or maybe im not understanding you...

Amist the Blue Skies...
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 09:42
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Quote: "Sounds like they're making it hard for the little man (yet again)"

Well, duh! They dont want people writing games, selling them without the manufacturers getting some of the money.


Mirrors are more fun than television. Well, that was fun, in a not-so-fun sort of way...
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Jess T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 10:24
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lol, yeah... I guess.

But wouldn't it be better if they just made it so that we could develop games, and have them work, but we can't sell it unless it goes through them, like instead of having to buy a new PS2 just to develop etc etc, they could just give us specific codes/libraries that need to be part of teh code for the game to work on teh PS2

But then again... that could cause issues with Burning games etc.

Oh well, back to DBPro...


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 10:40
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Games companies use C++ for these things, but they buy some special librarys from Nintendo etc, and a special format for the CD disc saving. They set the PC up with two disc drives one with the Nintendo format, the other the standard PC CD drive and they code away as normal. It's strange to see these nintendo games running on the PC.

Pincho.
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Jess T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 10:51
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How much you reckon it'd cost to get them libraries and special encoder stuff?


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 11:02 Edited at: 27th Nov 2003 11:10
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Nintendo would be expensive. I don't know the costs exactly, I'd guess around £30000. That's with the licence to actually sell the games afterwards. But games usually have to be sold back to Nintendo, so you are really a freelance company.

Edit: No that's wrong they just have to be OK'd by Nintendo but sold to another big company.

Pincho.
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Jess T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 11:10
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Holly Crapola... That's crazy...

Well, definatly back to DBPro for me...


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 11:15
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I am just using my past experience as a reference, so I am comparing the Gamecube to a SNES, and Megadrive. If you follow.
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Jess T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 13:35
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Oh, ok...

Well, i still say, Holly Crapola... lol


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 13:36
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Its why only games companies can afford to develop for the game consoles. Even if you did have the money, I think they would all (especially Microsoft), actively prevent you from getting the SDK's.


Mirrors are more fun than television. Well, that was fun, in a not-so-fun sort of way...
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Arrow
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 16:40
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Nintendo has upped there standers when is comes to illegal game recently. Back before the Gamecube the only thing preventing you from playing forein games was a bit of plastic. Now days they use specail methiods of burning their disks and advanced software protechtion.

Considering the X-box is baced off Windows and the fact a couple of geeks actually got Linix running on it, it would be the most likely to even have a DBP program on it. It would call for some serious hacking, but it could be done, it's basicly a PC with controlers.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
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KNau
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 17:00
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The problem there is that the people hacking the X-Box to run Linux have no interest in games so writing a game for them to play would be pointless.

I'm curious what your perceptions are of consoles why the PC isn't good enough? Do you think there's more money in consoles, that they're more prestigious? This quesion of using DBPro for consoles keeps popping up and it just baffles me

Anyways, the fastest way to get your hands on dev kits is to have your publisher pay for them since it isn't just a money issue. Just because some joe on the street comes up with the cash doesn't mean that will Sony will give him a tool kit. Theoretically you could do a prototype in DBPro and use that to get financing but it would be a tough slog. These days the shortcut to mainstream development seems to be GBA programming. There are companies popping up who make 1 or 2 GBA games and then use that experience as a stepping stone up to consoles. There's plenty of net resources on GBA programming, too.

http://www.canceriannewmedia.com
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The Dark Padawan
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 17:05
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All I know is there is a Gamecube language but.... it is very heavy on the wallet and very hard and plus you have to qualify for it .... I think Red_Eye told me this but I'm not sure

"Nintendo GameCube is the best"
Current project: Xtreme RC racing
Current progress: 15% done
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 17:15
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If C++ is similar to C then a library is a list of new commands for C. You can call them up and look at what variables have to be passed to them, like a function. Therefore the Gamecube language would be C++ but using special functions, or Librarys... or Include#'s. That's how things used to be. Maybe someone can correct me if things have changed drastically.

Pincho.
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Wik
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 18:46
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There was an old pst about making games for the Xbox and they said it was possible, but the liscence for one game was millions of dollars


I wanted to learn C++ but then I started having nightmares.
I would scream at night, "AHHHHH!!! THE SEMI-COLONS"
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 18:48
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Millions? Seems unlikely.
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David T
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 18:50
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Nintendo are releasing a kit that will allow you to make games on linux then transfer them to GBA.

Quote: "I also have a nice notice for the developers among you. A linux-kit will be released soon for developing your own GBA programs and games. The package includes a CD-Rom containing a Linux-development kit for the GBA platform, a USB connection cable (USB to GBA external port) and a 104 pages counting developers manual (printed on A4, so get ready for some serious reading). The price of the package will be about 60 euro's. "


http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=5765

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 19:02
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Programming the gamecube requires knowledge in C/C++. Plus some BS LOL!



Job Requirements:


At least 5 years of C/C++ programming work experience with at least 1 year of previous game programming experience with the Nintendo GameCube
BS in Computer Science, Math, Physics, or Engineering
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 19:11
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It seems, from what I have read above, that programming for a console entails all sorts of headaches. If anyone would have some clout in this arena it would be TGC. They could possibly make a deal, let's say with ms/xbox, that would give tgc rights to include in their product DBP, the ability to write for consoles incorporated in the dbp platform. It's a doubtful longshot but if anyone has a chance to get into the console market it would be a company with a big customer base, like tgc, as opposed to us single guppies.
Just a thought.

-RUST-
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klariza
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 20:50
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i wanted to join net yaroze.
but i was too young and did not have enough money.
shame they are not taking on new members now
altho the best game i played out of it was kula world - best game ever that was for the ps1, along side tomb raider and broken sword and myst

I am obsessed by Toasters - especially talking ones...bizaare really isn't it?
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TKF15H
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Posted: 27th Nov 2003 22:26
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You can make games for the dreamcast. There's a free compiler out. The thing I don't like about console programming is I'd have to burn a CD for every test

Morfy's Law - Enythink thet ken go rong willll.
Cole's Law - Thinly sliced cabbage.
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mm0zct
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 01:00 Edited at: 28th Nov 2003 01:01
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from what i hear elsewhere the sega dreamcast is the easiest platform to program, the dc runs any disc so u don't need it chipped or anything, there are loads of websites on dc programming and you can pick up a second hand dreamcast for almost nothing now, all you need is the boot software which is available in many forms from almost any dc programming website.

@TKF15H i think the dreamcast can read cdrw's so just use them

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Arrow
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 04:10
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Quote: "All I know is there is a Gamecube language but.... it is very heavy on the wallet and very hard "
Expencive maybe, but nintendo made it a point to make the Gamecube programer friendly. It has the easiest language to grasp out of the three, thought it still relies heavily on C.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 06:09
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i can guarentee you GameCube is pure C and you'll end up using an edited version of OpenGL with arb_gc_ specifics which get messy when you also have to reffer to the registers as that, and it also has its very own version of fragmented programs.
very nice to work with though, just messy at times...

Personally i can't wait until March, the next generation Nintendo is being announced ... and another new console is being announced too ^_^


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
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Phaelax
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 07:46
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http://www.buginthemachine.com/ProgXbox.php
http://www.xfactordev.net

X-box programming tutorials.
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Mattman
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 22:54
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new nintendo system is code named N5

Nintendo GC SDK is $20k and I know this for a fact.

Beauty, eh? RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
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Newbie Brogo
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 23:39
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about the xbox.. my uncle's friend actually hacked the X Box and put in a 120gb hard drive and he now puts in the game, and saves the entire game onto the hard drive he installed. So its a new way to burn a disk!
even tho... this doesnt have to do with programming for xbox, but.. thought i'd share

You did what? For who?! For how many jellybeans?!?

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 28th Nov 2003 23:49
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I don't know if it is a good idea to post information like that on here. Microsoft are watching you! You'll be taken away in a black limosine!

Pincho.
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the_winch
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Posted: 29th Nov 2003 01:01
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Sort of intresting link with a little info on gamecube programming.

http://www.colinfahey.com/apr2002_sennaridesk/apr2002_sennaridesk.htm

dbpro : p166mmx @ 233 : 256mb : sb 128pci : sis onboard
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Mattman
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Posted: 29th Nov 2003 02:26
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hey winch, I know him! that's the guy that I told everyone I knew about

Beauty, eh? RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
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Newbie Brogo
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Posted: 29th Nov 2003 03:23
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microsoft will never find me!! NEVER!!!!! even though.. its my uncle's friend... who i don't know his name.. but still.. MICROSOFT SHALL NEVER FIND ME
*twitch*
who wants tea?

You did what? For who?! For how many jellybeans?!?

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