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Geek Culture / Copyrights, tools, toolmakers and developers?

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MicroMan
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: 14th Dec 2003 07:13
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Some companies that make tools for art development or code development claim copyright for the stuff that is produced by an artist or developer.

For artwork, take Poser. They make a strong claim of copyright where I think you really can't do anything commercial with art produced by that tool, without paying royalty.

For coders, one could use Conitec as an example. At least in the A5 days they claimed copyright of the games produced with the 3d Game Studio system. I don't know about now though. You had to pay a license fee to Conitec to be able to use the tools of that package.

Now, I'm just curious about this. Do they have a claim like that? If I took a hammer and a box of nails and a saw and built a house, then the construction tool company that owned the brand of these tools and nails could not claim copyright to my house.

I've always seen it as equivalent of requiring license fees for code or art development. As if the toolmakers wanted license fees to allow you to build a house with their tools.

What do you think about this? Do they have a legal footing? Has it ever been tested in court?

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Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 14th Dec 2003 10:44
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yeah they have perfect legal footing.
the point being is that software isn't like going out and purchasing the tools, your more renting them.

therefore as your on thier property they can claim anything you've made is technically thiers.
really the EULA gives them the right to do anything, it's a contract like any other. They could legally put in it that for every 20minutes you use thier software you have to get up and do the monkey.

Would be absurd but when you agree to the terms, your therefore bound by the stipulations.


Detonating a nuclear device within the city limits results in a $500 fine!
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Dave J
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 11:17
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Although the Analogy of building a house with a hammr works quite well. A hammer is made by a machine very quickly where as software can take years to write and involves lots of manpower.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Freddix
AGK Developer
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Location: France
Posted: 14th Dec 2003 11:55
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I think that conitec is a really bad example of what companies can do !

I Kno A5/A6 is a really good development system ( probably the best on ) but it suffer several problem :

- Really expensive price !
- ad always present ( even on finished product )
- window application icon is always the A5/A6 icon ( you can't change it ( not sure at 100% )

I think that when you sell a product as expensive as A5/A6 , it's uncorrect to ask for royalties !
I think that kind of behaviour make the software don't progress because people can't make what they want with the program they build.

I prefer software that when you buy it , you can make what you want with software you build.

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MicroMan
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 12:47 Edited at: 14th Dec 2003 12:49
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@Raven

But there is, then, nothing to stop a hammer maker from 'renting' you the hammer and forcing you to view a EULA before you buy it. The Hammer Maker's Federation could meet next week and decide that this would be the new industry standard, and they could make a deal with the Sawmakers of The World to do the same.

A house is solid, firm. It's THERE. An electron is an intransigent little thing, and for certain some company have decided that when the electrons are positioned a certain way that pattern is going to mean a 'PRINT a' or a 'WriteLn(a);' or a 'printf(a);' Or the pattern will mean the positioning of a vertex on the screen at a certain location, or the start point of an I/K chain.

But it's nothing more than that. Everything else: the idea, the vision, the work comes from the artist or developer. I would love to see whether something like the EULA, the more egrarious ones, would stand up in court vis a vis copyright limitations of what is produced.

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Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 14:28
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MicroMan - the difference between "royalty free" and "need to pay" happens when it's not actually you creating the finished work, to a degree anyway. Poser is just poser really, and it's their model, their textures and their software used to make the final image. So consequently, you pay for it. A5 is similar, you're using their map building/modelling tools, writing with their scripting engine. Only when you buy the full license is this restriction removed. I think the more "skill" something requires, the less chance they have of making you pay for it - for example, it's not like Adobe could ever charge people for images made in Photoshop. It's the same reason why DBPro has no charge beyond the software, because you literally have to make it all yourself. 3D Gamemaker on the other hand, you use all the models/music and code that we made, so hence you can't sell it.

There is (some) logic to it.

Cheers,

Rich

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Dec 2003 15:41
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yeah unfortunately not enough to justify all the restrictions that Connetic placed in A5/A6.

and speaking of Hammer actually, they're bound by the same agreements.
Free provided your game is Free and is packaged within an id based game. Else the maps you make must end up paying either a royalty else purchasing a full developers license.

these EULAs interest me though, for business reasons right now


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