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DarkBASIC Discussion / Copyright Laws...

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Northern Fist
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 20:55
Let's say, hypothetical situation, that a person is making a game that is a bit of a sequel/interpretation of a game made in, say 1993. Now let's hypothetically say that it's not really a retro but a remake of it - therefore the name is the same, with an episode-al twist tacked on.

For that person to even release a small demo of his remake, he needs to have permission from that company(s) first, correct.

Hypothetical shroud out of the way: me and a friend are toying with the idea of making a beefed up version of Tyrian for the PC (by Epic MegaGames). It was a classic, color-filled shoot-em-up that we still want to be 2D, but with 3D objects. If we eventually succeed, we couldn't post it in the works-in-progress without permission, correct?

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 21:32
im not so sure, but from what i understand, are you going to be making money off of it? are you going to give it away, thus making the creators lose money? or is the 'classic' game no longer making money? if they are no longer making money and you GIVE it away (not making money off of it, or stealing their customers) you should have no problem with law

Penfold
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 21:46
You'd need to get permission from the owners of the label if you were going to make any kind of profit from the game
( this would include money and I belive internal advertisement aswell now)

best thing to do would be to contact the group who own the rights to this game and ask them if it would be ok to make a remake of there classic game (I assume its not on sale anywhere anymore). If its for your own personal use or to be released as freeware they will probably be ok about it and say yeah what the heck. ( they may even ask for updates on how its going, they may even ask for a finished version) If you make a good job, or even a bad job and it has some kind of novel twist to the gameplay or a good alternative story line they may even want to take your project and make it a reality.

Cool I wonder If I can make a Dizzy game?
> Can't beat a bit of egg...Oh ok YES ya can..lol

Ok so its not a mouse.
Northern Fist
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 22:10
Hmmm... I just realized that they are releasing Tyrian 2000 for the Game Boy Advanced. I really can't think about money right now because it is still a pipe-dream.

Yeah, I know you're rolling your eyes, but I'm asking because I want to make sure this is a realistic/WORTHWHILE project (hey, I never said I'd do it only if money was involved).

Tyrian for the PC is not being sold anymore outside of E-Bay, as far as I know. It had such a following, though, that there may still be sights that sell it.

The thing is, I find it extremely difficult to think of an ORIGINAL horizontal shooter. Personally, Tyrian was and still is the best. Why not go with what works (if you can't beat-em, join 'em, eh)? [SIGHS] Well, unfortunately it looks like the guys with GBA already had the same idea. However, they are not updating it with 3D graphics (hey it's gameboy).

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
Kwiki Mart
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 23:09 Edited at: 28th Dec 2003 23:11
Well everyones first game is PONG, So I dont see anything wrong with a remake. I am doing a remake of Atari's COMBAT. Not keeping the same name though.
<By the way I am in no way qualified to give legal advice>

On target, On time!
Northern Fist
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 23:55 Edited at: 28th Dec 2003 23:56
Hmm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Raven doing a Voids game (some signature he had a while back). He probably isn't asking for money (I'm currently not either), but isn't he allowed to post pictures, or even a free DEMO of his game even though it belongs to Anime? Just wonderin...

EDIT - what about Sonic the Hedgehog - I've saw a Sonic demo made in DBPro a couple months back. Wasn't that legal?

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Dec 2003 23:55
i have not yet made pong, pacman, breakout, or anything like them.

Penfold
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Posted: 29th Dec 2003 01:02
There legal but only if no-one is being charged in anyway shape or form for any part for any of the characters or storyline of these re-made games.

You make as many remakes as you like but they'll never get posted in the DB downloads page or I expect the DB online magazine.

These should be presumed as for your use only and the only reason you would hand them out would be to let people see how good a programmer you are.

You should never also advertise any copyrited stuff in other games of your own that aren't copyrited otherwise you'd never be able sell them comercially.

As far as copying a game idea this is fine as long as its not too close. for example how many final fantasy clones have you seen or 3D fighting games based on the first virtua fighter games.

After all I would presume that all games in some way can be linked partly back to things people have seen enjoyed and adapted for there own use. If you couldn't copy a game style there would be only one turn based RPG (Final Fantasy) and only one racing game (Enduro racer, I think)one space combat game (I dunno star wars arcade?) one scrolling beat 'em up (golden axe?) one sports tennis game (pong? lol) and so on I'm sure you get the idea.

Why not make a remake of your favourite game change the character/ players the scenery and a little of the gameplay to make it unique and voila its not the same game. it may play like it but it isn't the same game.

I myself and working very slowly (so don't ask for screenies or demos) of a 3D fighting game thats a kinda cross between Mortal Kombat and Soul Edge (soul blade to the rest of ya.)
but I don't expect to get in bother for copyright as I'm building the game engine myself and the character models and my little bro is getting the band he's in to do the music. and the final product should be so far evolved that only this posting would give any real idea of where I got the basic ideas from.

So all in all I say go for it.. don't sell it and there shouldn't be a problem.

Ok so its not a mouse.
Northern Fist
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Posted: 29th Dec 2003 01:15
Thanks for the good advice.

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
Jess T
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Posted: 29th Dec 2003 08:27 Edited at: 30th Dec 2003 04:16
Basically, just don't use their name, use a variation, and email it to them, making sure it doesn't infringe on their copywrite, then make sure that your storyline isn't THAT closely related to theirs so they can't pin you for Stealing their Intellectual Property ( ie, theur ideas ).

Hope I Helped...


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
waffle
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Posted: 29th Dec 2003 15:06
My own preference when it comes to copywrite laws is to mostly ignore them. Note, I'm not saying go out and burn a copy of DOOM and say its your game and want to publish it. Thats not right and is against the law. What I am saying is

1 - as a beginning project your game will never be as good as the original

2 - you probably will get about 1/2 way done and then BANG get an original idea and then the copywrite will no longer apply

3 - you lack the market, media and so on to directly compete for
customers. Nobody looking for a DOOM game will buy your DOOMCLONE in DB game even if it looked as good.

4 - as a newbi, you probably won't be doing a game for money for a few years

these are reasons I ignore copywrite laws. As long as you don't ripp the original graphics, sound, music or code from the original
game..... its your game and your property. Just change the name
If you wish to be nice about it, sure, send them an email and don't say you wish to "clone or mod" thier game. Instead say you have a game you're working on that thier game "inspired" you to make and wish to mention the other game in the credits.

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Philip
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Posted: 29th Dec 2003 17:14
*Groan*

Right... thats it! As the only person here with any sort of qualification to speak about law, I shall obviously have to write a FAQ on copyright law and post it. Its that or I will obviously keep gnashing my teeth when I read everyone's idea of what copyright law is.

Ok - FAQ is on its way. Give me a week and I'll post it.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P1.3ghz / 384 megs / GeForce MX 5200 128meg / WinXP home
Northern Fist
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Posted: 29th Dec 2003 17:56
@ Jessticular

Thanks. I think I'll just have to dig into my creative energy to make a more original top-down shooter. Besides, Tyrian is great as it is without my pathetic help.

@ Waffle

You're right on. I'm modifying my plans slightly.

@ Philip

I look forward to seeing it posted.

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
waffle
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Posted: 31st Dec 2003 13:10
@Philip
A prime example of an "inspired" game is
Dark Planet by UbiSoft
All crittics said it was just Star Craft revisited
Frontier Wars also by UbiSoft
Looks inspired by Space Empires
Star Control ... in proccess of being cloned by various teams
Alpha Centauri ... there is a resurection project underway
Lets not forget all those RTS games based on Total Annylation

And the Total War series combat system is based loosly on Antiem.

As long as you do not use Intelectual property (plagerism is questionable but can be done see ORB vs Homeworld ) and can prove your game is unique and new your fine. Copywrite violations are hard to prove if you own all media rights and source code for your game.

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current project http://home.comcast.net/~norman.perry/Archon.html
John H
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Posted: 31st Dec 2003 18:09
Tyrain was fun


Dont forget to Join the Forums!
Northern Fist
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Posted: 31st Dec 2003 22:12
Tyrian was good fun. It's storyline was really whack, but that's part of what made it interesting. May she never rest in peace .

But, yeah, I'm taking Waffle's advice just to exercise my creative energy a bit more than I planned, but overall, whetever I do for my next project I will have a good time doing it .

Cheers

"Power, precision, and don't forget about speed. If you practice everyday with these things in mind... you begin to develope A FIGHTING MODE." - Fist of Legend (Jet Li)
JoelJ
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2004 01:10
Quote: "Total Annylation"


i lub dat game...i had it growing up...lost it...couldnt find it in stores FOR EVER! until my friend saw it at a grocery store for $10, needless to say, i bought it

indi
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2004 01:29
copyright laws in australia are pretty much all online.
I use the rules heaps when deving cdroms for people.

http://www.copyright.org.au/
http://www.copyright.org.au/page3.htm

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