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Newcomers AppGameKit Corner / Another newbie!

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Wolfsong73
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Joined: 22nd Aug 2020
Playing: FFXIV, Fall Guys, Redout
Posted: 22nd Aug 2020 06:13
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Hello all,

Wolfsong here. I've kicked around wanting to make games for quite a long time. I recently started looking into different languages and/or engines to learn. Long story short, though I've known about TGC for a very long time - a couple decades at least, it feels like. I remember seeing Dark Basic quite a lot. So when I started looking for a good language/solution to start learning game programming, I came to check things out and learned about AGK.

I did some research, and really like how the language is based around BASIC syntax but seems capable of doing some very cool things. So, I went ahead and purchased AppGameKit Studio and am ready to dive in.. probably tomorrow. It's 1AM here and I'm tired

Got a whole weekend ahead, though. So, plenty of time to dive in and start learning.

Anyhow, there's my introduction and hello!

Take care all



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PSY
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2020 13:27 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2020 13:28
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Hello Wolfsong,

welcome to the forum

Have fun and stay safe

Hope you enjoy coding in AGKS as much as I do


PSY LABS Games
Coders don't die, they just gosub without return
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Virtual Nomad
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Location: SF Bay Area, USA
Posted: 22nd Aug 2020 16:20
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greets, Wolfsong73

since you've got the whole weekend, i recommend skimming through the help files and each of the commands to familiarize yourself with AGK. maybe make some notes to review certain sets that you're currently interested in?

don't forget the bonus tutorials and, perhaps, some of the resources found in this thread.

Quote: "plenty of time to dive in "

in otherwords, look before you leap. it will surely spare you a few bumps and bruises

otherwise, welcome. and, we're here for you when you need a nudge.
[My Itch.io Home] | [#LowRezJamAGK2020]
[AGK Resource Directory] | [TGC @ GitHub]
[CODE lang=AGK] Your Code Here [/CODE] | [VIDEO=youtube] VideoID [/VIDEO]
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Location: Nirvana
Posted: 22nd Aug 2020 23:19
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Welcome, and you have made an excellent choice to start your programming journey.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Wolfsong73
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Playing: FFXIV, Fall Guys, Redout
Posted: 24th Aug 2020 03:04
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Hey thanks everyone!

I've gone through the shooter tutorial and completed that. I looked at a couple of the others, but they seem a bit beyond me ATM, so I think i want to practice with something simpler. Just have to think of something that would actually *be* "simple" enough. I have a tendency of underestimating the complexity of things.

I wasn't aware of the bonus tutorials pack, so I'm definitely going to go through that.

Thanks again!
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Loktofeit
AGK Developer
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Posted: 25th Aug 2020 15:03
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You're going to find AppGameKit Studio is a very accommodating.

Looking through the examples, you'll see that even though everything boils down to the The One Do/Loop Ring, there are a lot of different approaches to structuring one's code.

When creating your scenes, you can handle it all manually, or use a pretty convenient scene editor which takes care of naming, alignment, and a lot of other basic chores of UI/scene design.

I use Classic, so I am not familiar with the Studio debugger, but I've seen several people here say it's very useful and easy to use.

Making changes? Starting a new project? Always. Make. Back. Ups. It will save you a lot of headaches one day.

"so I think i want to practice with something simpler."

I always suggest to people to try to make a Lemonade Stand or a Simon game.


Have fun, and def pop in here to share what you're working on or to ask any questions you have.
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Wolfsong73
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Posted: 25th Aug 2020 16:32 Edited at: 25th Aug 2020 19:37
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Hi Loktofeit,

Thanks for the advice!

I'm actually wondering if I might have been better off getting the classic version, where the UI Editor is optional. Studio is proving to be confusing to me, largely because there seems to be a number of ways to approach a project (use the editor, do it manually, etc), and so many ways to structure the code (single file, multiple files with includes, etc), that I'm having trouble nailing down how I'm most comfortable working with it. It's a bit overwhelming figuring out a path to follow with it. Sometimes fewer options is better. At least initially.

I've looked a bit more into classic AppGameKit and I might give that a go instead.
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Lupo4mica37
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Posted: 28th Aug 2020 07:42
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Hi Wolfsong73,

I am like Loktofeit, I spend most of the time coding in AppGameKit Classic, I guess it allows the user to just focus on the code, despite the code in AppGameKit Classic will run the same in AppGameKit Studio. It is good you got the Studio version as it can do more than the Classic version, because it has the Scene Editor, so it will come to use for you later.

I got both versions, the AppGameKit Classic and Studio. I reason it is beneficial to have both, as I tend to use the Classic to figure the various programme/game logic and the Studio for the actual project.

As you got the Studio version, best to wait for a discount on the Classic version and then buy it and on Steam it can be discounted to like £10, so really worth the wait.

When it comes to progamming, the most important is perseverance, meaning, if you have a problem and you cannot solve it, do not give up, just keep on working on it and once you solve it, you will begin to understand better that really there is no such problem that cannot be solved and the only difference between those that solve problems and those that don't is those that do, don't let go of the problem until they solve it. I tell you from personal experience of coding one relatively complex logic for a demonstration game, I spend two weeks working on it and at one point I nearly got everything working, but trying to implement the last part worked out to create even more problems, so that nothing worked as it supposed to. It was a right mess and I would leave the computer and lie down on the bed and think to myself "Man, I cannot solve this thing, it has been two weeks already and it went from OK to really bad in the final stage". I would go back to the computer and try again to solve the final problem, however to no avail. I did that few times until I decided I needed to reprogramme the entire thing from the foundation. I did not have to retype all the code, most of it was copy and pasting the already written code, but the fundamental mechanics changed and guess what, once I applied the fundamental changed it all worked. The ability of solving a complex and difficult problem is one that is shaped through not giving up on the problem and persevering until you solve it. When you do solve one problem after another, you will know that given time and patience you will be able to solve any problem whether it is programming or life in general.

All the best on your journey of problem solving and if you are stuck to oblivion, just know that we are all here to help each other.

Take care.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2020 14:37
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Two very important things to remember when coding:

1. Keep it legible. Always indent code properly and space accordingly to make it easier to read and debug.
2. Comment your code! Even if you think you'll remember what a simple function does in the future, you'll forget. Trust me.

These are not only helpful to yourself, but for any others who may look at your code.

And welcome to AGK. These forums have decades of collective experience and some of us are professional coders. We're here to help and guide.
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 4th Sep 2020 02:14 Edited at: 4th Sep 2020 02:19
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Quote: " These forums have decades of collective experience and some of us are professional coders. We're here to help and guide."

You can gain insight and knowledge from indies too, so don't count them out as useless just yet.

Most of us are here to learn new technologies, and to keep learning from the collective experience of all.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Wolfsong73
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Playing: FFXIV, Fall Guys, Redout
Posted: 9th Sep 2020 05:29 Edited at: 9th Sep 2020 05:29
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After trying several times to dive into Studio, I think I am just going to get the classic version, without the built-in scene editor.

I feel like I'm trying to learn how to work with the "Studio" part of AGKS, instead of learning how to code and make stuff with it.
Also the vast majority of tutorials I'm finding seem to be based on AGKClassic, anyway, and the interaction between the Scene Editor and the Code is really unintuitive.

That's been my experience so far, anyway, and I'm much more of a fan of keeping things lean and simple as possible. I'd use Notepad if it were a feasible option lol.

So, I'll take the suggestion of waiting for AGKC to go on sale and snag it then.

Not giving up, yet though!
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Lupo4mica37
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Posted: 11th Sep 2020 21:48 Edited at: 11th Sep 2020 21:50
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Hey Wolfsong73.

If you got Steam and you want the Steam version, it is currently on a really good sale right now of 70%! This is what I got it myself for more or less, about £10.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/325180/AppGameKit_Classic_Easy_Game_Development/

Offer ends on the 14th Sept 2020.

If you don't mind the Steam version, it even runs without Steam running, so it works like the non-Steam version except you get it via Steam.

I highly recommend.

Have good night.

PS I reason a lot of people use Notepad++ for the code: https://notepad-plus-plus.org/downloads/v7.0/
PS2 I use it to make changes to the code as it is really good at replacing code or to view files that has exported data from AGK. It is also good to copy and paste some of your code for a programme that works, before attempting some major changes, so that when things go wrong, you still have a working version to go back to, in order to go back if neccessary.
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smerf
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Posted: 14th Sep 2020 06:02
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You can close all the editor stuff in studio and just focus on text. I've never looked at studio beyond it's capability to search find replace and write text but I prefer it because I can change the bg color to dark easy on the eyes and a but more easy to customise. As far as coding goes. Comment always indent name variables with purpose. Myvar is a crappy car. PlanetxCoords is a better example. Always keep in mind modular code as in if u needed to change it later would u need to change 100 lines or did u code it to where u only have to change 1. Always have fun and pace yourself and after 1am don't ask for help cause it's usually an easy problem but ur brains to tired to see it lol. Good luck have fun

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Wolfsong73
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Posted: 20th Sep 2020 17:05 Edited at: 20th Sep 2020 20:20
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Thanks for that tip, Smerf.

I might just try to do that as a last resort, before just uninstalling and moving on to something else.

If the folks at TGC are interested in a first-impression from a new customer, it's this:
The more I try to use Studio, the more I dislike and regret buying it. It feels increasingly clunky and half-assed. I can't understand the thinking behind its setup. At all.
It feels like you took the basic classic editor, hastily tacked on a bunch of "bullet point features", called it a "New Product" and put it up for sale.
It doesn't feel like a complete, well planned or purposefully designed product, at all. More like a glorified addon that you're charging full price for.

That's been my experience, as a new user of AGKS.

Anyway, I'll try and turn off everything so it's just a basic editor. Not getting my hopes up, though.

This has been an incredibly disappointing experience.
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Lupo4mica37
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Posted: 21st Sep 2020 22:32
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Wolfsong73, I understand where you are coming from, however you must understand that when it comes to the DarkBASIC crew products it is a sort of tribe, you either join and despite all the struggles and difficulties you endure together to the bitter end of programming or you endure complaining and in the end get nowhere with the tools provided. As a friend and brother, I am honest with you to tell you this, the choice is yours and to struggle here is a lesson that can be applied to life itself. I could never do that what Lee with the help of Rick and whoever other in the past that have contributed to create, first the most wonderful BASIC language software like that of AMOS, but better called DarkBASIC Classic. Later to build upon the experience of DarkBASIC they have created the ultimate DarkBASIC Professional that certain masters of the language still use and these are as I would refer as the actual veterans of the DarkBASIC adventure. I am not fit to make a cup of tea for them. Building upon the original DarkBASIC experience, The Game Creators (a sh*tty name, I know, but know that they did originally intended to be called DarkBASIC, however the name in the present world could bring human imagination to associate the crew with dark arts or black magic, hence the present name) have created AppGameKit Classic, that for me is the master in 2D for BASIC languages, however DarkBASIC Pro is still superior in the 3D realm in my personal opinion based on the study of the 3D creations done in DarkBASIC vs AGK. It could be that the DarkBASIC programmers have so much experience to create better creations, however there are those that can create some wonderful things in 3D in AGK. That is my personal opinion on the matter of 3D, despite I am a complete amateur when it comes to programming in the 3D realm of both AppGameKit and DarkBASIC.

Like yourself, I agree that AppGameKit Studio is a work in progress. For example I can run my demos in AppGameKit on Macintosh Operating System created in AppGameKit on PC, with certain adujstments to the code due to the Apple policy limitations, however the same code, will not run the same in AppGameKit Studio on a Macintosh computer. I agree, AppGameKit Classic is the finished product so far in my experience. Every bug and problem I experience in AppGameKit Classic ended up being of my stupid human nature and lack of logic in the code, whether I perceived the problem or not. For this I recommended to you AppGameKit Classic as the starting point.

Here is my offer to you as the member of this community. In the case you are a member on Steam, please give me your user name, so I can add you and I will buy you AppGameKit Classic for the full price in order to help you become the programmer that I know you can become as long as you keep going like the Kamikaze to the bitter end.

The choice is yours my friend. I shall keep my word to you.

Take care.
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Wolfsong73
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Posted: 5th Oct 2020 01:14 Edited at: 5th Oct 2020 01:16
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Lupo4mica,

Thank you for your response, and for your generous offer. I would feel wrong accepting, though.

As for working through the trouble of learning AppGameKit, as you present it, it doesn't instill much confidence in me to continue as it kind of reinforces the feeling I was getting last time I tried to learn/use it.

I'm already taking on the challenge of learning to program, and a new language. I should be able to just focus on that; not also trying to understand or fight with the logic behind the IDE.

At this point, I'm looking into different options. AGKP has just fallen flat for me.

Thank you again for your offer! I sent a friend request on Steam anyway. You seem like a cool person, even without the offer.

Take care!
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Zaxxan
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Location: England
Posted: 20th Dec 2020 09:46 Edited at: 20th Dec 2020 09:54
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I am fairly new to AGK2 and I have purchased both the Studio and and Classic versions plus DLC.

I started programming initially using the Classic version but then changed to the Studio version as this was this newest. Whilst I liked a lot about Studio I found that the screen looked cluttered with all of the extra tools, media viewer etc and ended up turning most of them off. I also found that when using the F1 key that the help system wasn't as good as the Classic version. I could also never get the editor to look good and be functional at the same time using the editor random colour generator.

The final things that made me go back to Classic were the lack of being able to preserve code folding and lack of indentation lines.

I have been using Classic for a few weeks now and have coded my first game which is a connect 4 type game. It has animated graphics, AI and the ability to work over WiFi with another human, sound effects and music.

I think the broadcast feature is absolutely amazing and has significantly improved development time and made coding fun.

For me I have found AGK2 Classic to be an amazing programming language and would highly recommend it.
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Wolfsong73
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Posted: 21st Mar 2021 01:41
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Hello again,

Decided to resurrect my own previous thread, since I'm basically continuing on from where I left off.

Stepped away from the "learning programming" thing for a bit. Had some real life situations to deal with, etc. I came back and, after doing "the rounds", looking at other options, I'm back to AGK. Maybe I'm a masochist or something, but even with all the "no programming" type options out there, I feel most comfortable typing.

HOWEVER.. I did go ahead and purchase one of the AGK2 bundles (the "bumper pack", I believe it was called; excellent value, and cheaper than buying AGK2 by itself). So I have that installed, as well as AGKS.

I still find the cleaner, plainer interface of AGK2 to be much nicer to look at and work with than AGKS. However, my understanding, and this goes to my question here...
I can use the code I've written in AGK2 in AGKS and it will compile and run, correct?

The reason I'd do so is - again, my understanding; please correct me if I'm wrong - is that AGK2 is still using DX9, while AGKS supports OpenGL and Vulkan. DX9 can be annoying to use as it's outdated, might require someone to download and install the runtime, etc... However, OpenGL and Vulkan are more up-to-date and don't seem to require the same process. I'm assuming they're "baked in" to AGKS when the project is compiled/built?

Making a lot of assumptions here, I know. But I want to make sure my understanding is correct.
I can write the code in AGK2, then load and build/compile it in AGKS to take advantage of OGL or Vulkan.

Is that more or less correct?

Thanks all.

And hello again.
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James H
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Posted: 21st Mar 2021 04:12
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Doesn't use direct x - in terms of Windows desktops AppGameKit Classic is OGL and AppGameKit Studio permits a choice of Vulkan or OGL. Both products have Tier 1 - coding using the IDE the products came with and Tier 2 needs Visual Studio. So far I am aware there are some debug options in Studios IDE where some code is needed to marry variables with some GUI stuff within studios IDE, maybe there is more idk - I am newish to AppGameKit myself, in fact I only bought studio because it was on sale and I was curious to a rumour on Vulkan performance - I already had Classic not long before on another sale. So if you use the debug GUI stuff or the code that switches between OGL/Vulkan - or maybe theres more for 2D related stuff related to the media side of the editor, then you would have to make alterations to code going back over to classic, but not the other way around, you should be fine I would think to code in Classic and just recompile in Studio.

One other difference is some filtering - there are apparently some differences between Classic OGL and Studio OGL. Very noticeable in the shadow filters. What else is different I don't know but I am sure time will tell.

I am not quite sure what folks mean when I see them write AGK2, sometimes I think they mean Studio, other times I think they mean Tier 2 - I do keep seeing it written often, but then a couple of times I am sure I have seen it as part of the white AppGameKit logo although it does not appear as part of their website or product officially that I can see as of yet. Perhaps this difference between the OGL's is why? Just a thought really!
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Wolfsong73
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Posted: 21st Mar 2021 11:20
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Hi, James.

Hmm. So there are other differences involved. Well, I'll proceed with AppGameKit for now in any case. I can move over to Studio later if circumstances point that way.

As for AGK2, I've seen it noted that way in a number places, so I figured it was just the later/updated version of it, pre-Studio.

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Loktofeit
AGK Developer
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Posted: 21st Mar 2021 11:45 Edited at: 21st Mar 2021 11:46
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"I am not quite sure what folks mean when I see them write AGK2"

AGK2 is what TGC originally called what is now known as AppGameKit Classic.
Source: https://www.appgamekit.com/news?post_type=&page=42


"As for AGK2, I've seen it noted that way in a number places, so I figured it was just the later/updated version of it, pre-Studio."

Exactly.
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Do everything inside functions.
Use finite state machines to control your game.
Use lots and lots of source files.
Use virtual resolution instead of the default percentage system." - Digital Awakening
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 21st Mar 2021 15:23
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Classic is a good choice. I think the code produced by the scene editor in studio is rather messy, also if you design and program from scratch you stand more chance of understanding it!
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