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AppGameKit Studio Chat / [LOCKED] Getting disappointed...

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marvin944
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Posted: 4th Sep 2020 17:31
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I'm slowly getting dissapointed by AGK. Most of the time I'm not building, but mainly debugging, finding workarounds, struggling with stuff not working (broadcast), trying to wrap my head around certain 'logic', etc. It seems to get worse. It could be just me, but I've been a developer all my life and I have a sense of things going wrong slowly... I hope I'm wrong...
Dutch
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marvin944
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Posted: 4th Sep 2020 17:43
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It might also be just a midlife / existential crisis...
Dutch
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marvin944
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Posted: 4th Sep 2020 19:36
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Well, the only thing I could do is to put the blame on myself, embrace the wonders of weird syntax and behavior and accept the challenge... I just hope the AppGameKit team keeps the focus on keeping the syntax clear and the bugs away...
Dutch
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JRNTexas
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Posted: 5th Sep 2020 23:54
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I too have been a developer most of my life. I started in 1978.
I've been developing on one or another Game Creators platform since the early days of Dark Basic.
I have, at times, felt the same discouragement that you are going through.
However, I've found that it depends on what I'm trying to accomplish technically and where I'm at in my journey and with the particular application I'm working on. I've also found similar levels of frustration with other, completely different platforms, like C++, Adobe Flash, etc. Once the issue is either resolved or worked around and the issue is in the distant past, I find that the frustration and disappointment subsides and my view changes.
I currently have a great degree of satisfaction and confidence in the AppGameKit team and I've been on this platform since the beginning. Things change, it just depends on what's going on at the moment.
It's like a lot of things in life, take a deep breath, wait awhile and your attitude will turn around.

That doesn't mean that you should not point out difficulties or obstacles you may be having. Just that like most things, it's probably temporary.

Good luck!
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Loktofeit
AGK Developer
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Posted: 6th Sep 2020 00:11
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"I currently have a great degree of satisfaction and confidence in the AppGameKit team"

After a critical issue being completely ignored (not even acknowledged either on GitHub or here) for over a month, my confidence and satisfaction has waned considerably.

Not even an apology for ignoring it. And as an added slap in the face, I specifically posted that I was using AppGameKit 2 and when they finally respond to my post, over a month later, they offered a solution for AppGameKit Studio.

The two programs I have used to any decent degree, DBPro and AGK2, have been fantastic. I can't complain about either. Not down on the company or the products, just this recent experience was a major disappointment.
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JRNTexas
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Posted: 6th Sep 2020 01:03 Edited at: 6th Sep 2020 01:45
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It is sometimes difficult, for a group like AppGameKit to address individual issues and concerns directly when trying to stay on task. Not that what the developers using the tools are dealing with is trivial. It's just a matter of coming up with list of to do's, in priority order, and often those don't completely align with the thoughts of everyone using the tool. After years of being a developer and being on both ends of the spectrum from developing an app or environment to being a user of the app or environment I've come to the conclusion that everything, "they", do will not often completely align with what I want from them. So I've learned to cut them a lot of slack when they don't appear to be as concerned as I am about a specific issue.

I'm not trying to justify or ignore anything, I just know that whether it's the job I'm trying to accomplish or the job they're trying to accomplish, it's not as simple, straight forward or as easy as others may think it is or should be.
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 6th Sep 2020 05:43
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not necessarily on point but i've been frustrated and disappointed regularly over the past 15 yrs as a hobbyist with DBPro and AppGameKit, even to the point of walking away for what i remember to be a couple of years or more (the time between DBPRo and when i started with AppGameKit as a "very-late to the party" user).

a lot of that is my lack of skill in many departments which is, slowly but steadily (and thankfully), decreasing.

and, some of that is what's considered lacking and/or bugged in AGK. IE, i've shelved any Bullet3D projects since discovery of this "Memory Leak" issue.

so, i've tried to stay within the realm of "solid" in AppGameKit, and my skillset.

for me, that's mostly Box2D stuff. and i'm enjoying the journey, with much on the "someday" list (IE, i've yet to do a platformer or a number of other genres in 2d) while looking forward to a return to Bullet once the leak is resolved (and i think it will be, someday).

point: i suggest revolving around the "solid", both in AppGameKit and your skills, while leaving orbit to explore something that's "not so solid" with an anticipation of frustration that, for me, i try to stay conscious of, prompting my return to terra firma with said skill-set slightly improved.

it's working for me, and might for anyone else familiar with similar frustration and disappointment.

and, i understand that some of you life-long programmers have contended with it for longer than i but, perhaps, approach it from a different perspective, if you can? once i did, i've found "dealing with it" more enjoyable
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marvin944
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Posted: 6th Sep 2020 11:09
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Thanks for your answers. my main frustration is that things in the syntax are not matching my logic. It's far too much trial and error with drawing, rendering, syncing, etc.

For instance the fact that I cannot just paste one image on top of another without a lot of command seems silly. And many more things. Yes, the language is powerful and once I find a solution, the feeling is great, but the fun factor is decreasing day by day, making me look over to more professional tools like Unity which might be far more complicated, but at least there is an immense support.
Dutch
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Qube_
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Posted: 7th Sep 2020 00:31 Edited at: 7th Sep 2020 00:33
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I love AppGameKit but I've pretty much given up on it, well given up on the later versions of classic and studio as the raw frame rate has dropped substantially ( almost halved ) since classic 2018-07-12. I've tried every version since of classic and studio ( with Vulkan on / off and without the IDE open ) but still the same.

Having been over this issue many times and it being confirmed by others ( not all ) it has been long forgotten. Paul did look into it but alas couldn't find the issue ( might have been updated libraries? ) and Vulkan was on the horizon with a promised speed boost. Kind of odd but Vulkan on Mac Catalina is even slower than OpenGL. I did post some code here over a year ago and some had the same issue and some others didn't.

Studio is nice but the system heavy IDE was a mistake in my pointless opinion. Even set to event based it still hovers at the top of the list as the most CPU sucking app.

Not to worry... I live in hope that one day it'll all magically be fine again.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 7th Sep 2020 10:52
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Qube_, what is your tool of choice atm?
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Qube_
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Posted: 8th Sep 2020 12:11
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@MikeHart - I’m still sticking with AppGameKit Classic ( 2018-07-12 ) until the issue is resolved in either classic or studio. If it stops working on MacOS then I’ll unfortunately have to move on to something else. The version I use doesn’t work fully on MacOS Catalina as it won’t read the Documents folder or even ask permission to do so, however, it can read from the home folder so that’s where my AppGameKit work folder now resides.
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Zigi
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Posted: 9th Sep 2020 11:23 Edited at: 9th Sep 2020 11:34
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I am too frustrated with AppGameKit Studio and I also given up on it I don't use it. It is mostly because of bugs and missing features and poor perfromance. I could go in to details but would make no difference. What I hate the most is that we are kept in the dark, we don't know what direction the project is going, what is coming and when including bug fixes that is annoying. I was begging for a public roadmap for years but nothing, I am sick of not knowing what to expect and when and whatever is coming it is coming dog slow and when we get it, it is always introduce new annoying bugs.
But it is true for almost every single Indie tool out there, it is not just AGK. I am sick entirely of indie tools in general, developers either have no money, busy with life, have no motivation, depressed or just doing it for fun in spare time and don't take it seriously that you had to put your project on hold due to a bug or due to lack of progress you are uncertain if it worth investing your time in to the product they are developing and not going to be abandoned overnight.

I am at the point when I am happy to pay a subscription fee or even pay royalty just to see things moving a lot faster and get the bug fixes and features and professional support we need within a reasonable timeframe.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 9th Sep 2020 12:35
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I have coded for years and am new to appgamekit.

From what I see is upgraded products being sold as new products. That is why there's no upgrades or new fixes.

Appgamekit studio is appgamekit upgraded.

So in order to sell the new version they can't add the fixes or upgraded version.

If you want a fix for any given problem you have to come to the fourms and ask non company people for support. Sometimes you get help, sometimes you can't.

A product that I purchased should have a support team just for product usage.

All in all after reading and learning just about every line of code from the help files.

I find my self more and more confused as the help files are very confusing and poorly written.

With all that said I'm pretty happy with appgamekit.
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 9th Sep 2020 17:47 Edited at: 9th Sep 2020 17:53
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I am not disappointed. (hope that doesn't make my post off topic)

Sometimes I get stuck on something, and usually find what I need in the forum threads, but when I don't find help I am still usually able to do a workaround with a little effort on my part.

I understand that a small team of developers are not going to be able to address the needs of everyone all the time, and especially fast.

However, I have seen many requests get answered, and many bugs and fixes done quickly (IMO) over the years that I have been using AGK.

Is it perfect? NO, but what language/tool is?

Is it better than my other options? YES, because I can easily do what I need to do in far fewer steps than other game development tools.
(not wanting to do twenty steps to make a few nodes just to say "Hello World")

While it may not have every feature I want, it is more than powerful enough to keep me exploring possibilities and ideas to keep me busy.

I have yet to use all of the commands and I usually get side tracked by new features or newly discovered commands (when I have taken breaks) to the point of not finishing many projects.

They go unfinished not because a lack of functionality, but rather because there is always a new idea for using new features when an update does come.

AGK is powerful enough as it is for me to keep being creative and innovative with my work as long as I focus on what I can do with it, rather than what I can't do with it.

Thank you Paul and TGC for what I think is a wonderful product that has served me well over the years I have been using it.

AGK is an invaluable tool for me, and I look forward to using it for a long time, regardless of the speed/offer of future updates.

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 9th Sep 2020 18:04
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Quote: "I am not disappointed. (hope that doesn't make my post off topic)"

i think your post is perfectly on-topic and a perfect place to end this thread
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