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AppGameKit Studio Chat / [LOCKED] Is Studio worth it?

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Pfaber1
6
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Joined: 7th Jan 2018
Location: England
Posted: 25th Jul 2021 21:04
I paid £31.59 for my license to use AppGameKit Studio and £25.00 for Classic . Got both when they were on sale from steam . After trying the trial for Studio I just had to have it. The idea of having an upgrade without having to learn a new language was just too good . And I get a lot more fps using Vulkan than openGL . I really hope if and when the time comes AppGameKit will survive another upgrade rather than getting replaced as it really is an excellent language. I am not that smart but have been coding for the past 3 years and am a lot better now than even one year ago and think although some things seem complicated if I put in the time I can find a solution . I have tried out a few computer languages and this is the one I like best . I was of the mindset that the harder a language to learn the better it would be but having spent a fair bit of time with Studio over the last few months I feel the more straight forward the better. I am no expert however I am now making some ok programs. Anyway really pleased I chose this path as it was worth the price tag time and effort. Bonjour. May the code be with you.
Zaxxan
AGK Developer
3
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Joined: 17th Nov 2020
Location: England
Posted: 1st Aug 2021 10:31 Edited at: 1st Aug 2021 10:31
I paid £29 for the Studio premium package which also included a lot of DLC and and I got Classic for nothing. Perfonally I prefer Classic over Studio. AppGameKit is a great language to program with and in 8 months I have written several programs.

I'm disappointed that all of TGC's time now seems to be focused on GameGuru Max and that only maintenance releases are available for AGK. The Studio editor clearly needs updating but always seems to be ignored.

The DLC content has also become very stale with repeated sales on the same items. It would be nice to see some new DLC made available.
PartTimeCoder
AGK Tool Maker
9
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Joined: 9th Mar 2015
Location: London UK
Posted: 1st Aug 2021 15:59
I'd love to get my hands on the Studio IDE source code, I think the single best thing TGC could do for AppGameKit right now is outsource the IDE, its stale and gong nowhere, the Lib is out there what harm can doing the same with the IDE cause as the internal tools to compile basic are still a state secret.

A company has got to make a living and Max is going to sell buckets loads more than AppGameKit I am sure of that so it stands to reason its going to get more attention from the staff but ... The broken Visual Designer has gone unfixed and unchanged for how long? Is the Studio IDE doomed to suffer the same fate.

The Max IDE actually looks quite nice, I have not used it but from YT I quite like it, maybe Lee will wave a magic wand over the Studio IDE bringing what he learned from building Max ... one can hope.
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Pfaber1
6
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Joined: 7th Jan 2018
Location: England
Posted: 1st Aug 2021 21:07
I also think AppGameKit is really very good and have no intentions of leaping onto something else . The problems I do have with it are not stopping me from moving forward with my programs and are just little gripes .For me it's studio all the way and the niggles I have with studio are also evident with classic so using classic instead of studio does not make sense . We are talking code folding (not very important ) and setvsync(_) in openGL not really too much of a big deal either and not something I've used in the last 3 years anyway so the impact on my production is pretty much zero . I would like to see these things fixed though and look forward to the next update.
Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 1st Aug 2021 21:15
Quote: "I'd love to get my hands on the Studio IDE source code, I think the single best thing TGC could do for AppGameKit right now is outsource the IDE, its stale and gong nowhere, the Lib is out there what harm can doing the same with the IDE cause as the internal tools to compile basic are still a state secret."


Have you tried looking on TheGameCreators GitHub?
It's using Geany (https://www.geany.org/) as a base... but good luck "improving" it., as frankly you'd be better of writing your own.
The Compiler is entirely independent (which is common for most Languages) from the IDE., so all you really need to know is what the Inputs and Flags are for the Compiler; but then that's simple; given it takes the Project File as the input; the "Compiler" does the rest.

Not that you can really call it a Compiler., it's more of a Bytecode Generator; with a renamed Player Runtime spit out.

Quote: "A company has got to make a living and Max is going to sell buckets loads more than AppGameKit I am sure of that so it stands to reason its going to get more attention from the staff but ... "


I'd heavily wager that GameGuru Max is NOT going to exactly sell particularly well.
TGC have this weird obsession with their WYSIWYG Game Maker Tools... and they've always been bad at them., I mean that should be unsurprising as you have essentially programmers making a Streamlined Middleware Tool; and Programmers are TERRIBLE at anything that requires User Experience.

The reason that previous projects are left by the wayside isn't because of Sales., but because it's essentially a what 3 - 5 person Studio; they literally don't have the resources to handle more than 1 Project at once., it's as simple as that.
There is notable irony here that should they focus on their main money makes (i.e. Programming Languages with API Interfaces geared towards making Games)., and changed their business model to echo that of the rest of the industry... well they likely would be in a situation to have grown.

I mean heck even look back at Dark BASIC Professional., instead of working on Dark BASIC v4 they began creating countless Expansion Packs to add new features... which most didn't need and really most were made specifically just to support FPS Creator.
A new iteration of Dark BASIC would've had the existing userbase upgrade and result in a larger revenue than the smaller input from an Expansion that most are only going to get IF it's something they think is useful for their current project.

Nowadays of course Subscription Models have become "The Normal" as this appears better value and choice for Consumers while actually providing a bigger revenue source thus allowing survival with a smaller core base. This doesn't negate the need for Iterative Releases., just better financially.
And what TGC frankly needs are full-time teams dedicated to specific Projects.
PartTimeCoder
AGK Tool Maker
9
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Joined: 9th Mar 2015
Location: London UK
Posted: 1st Aug 2021 22:47
Quote: "Have you tried looking on TheGameCreators GitHub?"


Studio IDE, not Classic, Yes I'd rather write my own than try and update Geany!
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
18
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 2nd Aug 2021 05:00
Quote: " Is Studio worth it?"

Yes

Coding things my way since 1981 -- Currently using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
hosch
Developer
2
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Joined: 25th May 2021
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2021 13:04
I agree with Conjured Entertainment. I upgraded to Studio and found it to be a pleasant experience. Both versions have their pros and cons, though and it comes down to personal preference.
Zaxxan
AGK Developer
3
Years of Service
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Joined: 17th Nov 2020
Location: England
Posted: 2nd Aug 2021 19:47
Both Classic and Studio are are great programming tools. I have achieved more with AppGameKit than I ever did with BlitzBasic, BlitzMax Blitz 3D etc. I was interested in AOZ but the development seems to be all over the place.
Pfaber1
6
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Joined: 7th Jan 2018
Location: England
Posted: 3rd Aug 2021 13:04
Yeah that's it I have also achieved more with AppGameKit than any other language , sometimes I might get stuck on something for a few days but always find a solution knock on wood . I did write a game in PureBasic a couple of years ago and it is very fast but came back to AppGameKit . AppGameKit might not be as quick but it is a nicer language and as long as I can hit a solid 60fps that'll do me . And it's nice to be using something with regular updates and keeps pace with newer technology. And for the sake of a days work having my apps running on pc and android. It's a shame it hasn't gone main stream as it really is better than a few of the other languages out there but I guess TGC need to earn a living .
GOTO HelloWorld!
10
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Joined: 21st Oct 2013
Location: Skyrim,...and lost in it!
Posted: 1st Sep 2021 04:14
That conversation is really interresting and underline something very true. I was using DarK Basic classic and made a ton of 3D projects with it. From Airfighter simulation to Dungeon exploration. It was simple, yet powerful. I never understood why they never simply jump to the next Direct X and improved Dark Basic to make it into something even more powerful. How hard would have that be? Dark Basic Pro was too far into the 'C' side of coding to get me to from DBclassic so I couldn't do the jump. Today, i am trying to learn Lua and script GameGuru. And i have to deal with some bugs, but i do like it... but i still pretty much miss Dark Basic a lot. GameGuru just doesn't have that flexibility to be what i want it to be. And i must say i bought GGMax, to encourage Lee to continue developping amazing softwares, but i must say i share this comment when you say 'it may not sell so well afterall...' because i tried to current beta version (it is not optimized yet) and let me tell you, unless you have a very good machine (fast) and a fairly new graphic cards, you are not going anywhere near GGMax. From GameGuru i get a decent 40 fps with a decent scene. From GGMax i got 8 fps...unplayable I say, if many people have an older banana machine like mine, dual core 2.8 ghz cpu with an old graphic card GEForce GT1030 2gb, with 8g of ram memory, they are not gonna be please...

So my fear is that most people with very good machine will continue moving to Unity, Godot and Unreal (as they are/were probably turn off by GameGuru lack of flexibility), and people with low end machine like mine will continue using GG only as Max will be too hungry for power anyway...
PartTimeCoder
AGK Tool Maker
9
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Joined: 9th Mar 2015
Location: London UK
Posted: 2nd Sep 2021 04:19 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2021 04:24
Scripting in GameGuru was an utter PITA, like zero error feedback it was a slap dash implementation of Lua to say the least, I did try to get Lee to add proper error checking and he blew me off saying it would slow the engine down... Lua has inbuild functions for checking argument types and they did not use any of them, no asserts nada, error in your script, GameGuru crash! if Max is the same there is no way I will touch it, that alone is a product killer IMO.

I have used the Lua C API in many projects and have used many Lua runtimes and never have I came across such a poor implementation, the frustration of IMA errors for a typo or a nil value in a function call is an outrageous to say the least, add some dam error checking, that's the reason I walked from GG, swore to myself I would never contribute a thing to that shoddy piece of junk, compared to GG, AGK:S rocks!

The Thread, For anyone that's interested

Anyone have Max??, do me a favour and make a typo in a script and run it, what happens?
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Phaelax
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20
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 3rd Sep 2021 17:28
I'd be happy if the AGK2 editor just friggin worked properly. Scrolling only works if the editor window isn't the focus. Toolbar buttons don't always work. It's just a bunch of little quirks that get really annoying.
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Qube_
9
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Joined: 21st Oct 2014
Location: Omnipresent
Posted: 3rd Sep 2021 17:50
The Studio IDE 100% needs the side panel back with the list of Functions, Types, Variables, etc. The drop down method currently used is a chore to use as such things should be readily available to easily see. Also an option to change the colour of function names would help with readability.
hosch
Developer
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Joined: 25th May 2021
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Posted: 6th Sep 2021 12:15
Qube_ wrote: "The Studio IDE 100% needs the side panel back with the list of Functions, Types, Variables, etc. "

100%!
Pfaber1
6
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Joined: 7th Jan 2018
Location: England
Posted: 7th Sep 2021 21:08
Been having a play with lua myself recently the zerobrane variety and am picking it up pretty quickly . I think this will be my last crack at learning a new language so hope I've made a good choice and it's still around in a few years. Still intend to use AppGameKit studio as well as it really is very good. I've just got this thing about using a professional current language and I think lua comes into that category . Tried python a couple of years ago and well I prefer lua . It's supposed to be easy but I really disliked python and found it tough going . Zerobrane is free as well and uses luaJIT as standard so it is pretty fast. I think AppGameKit should also head in that direction AppGameKit studioJIT maybe. I've been using the 3D side of AppGameKit for a couple of years now and although I do hear it getting roasted from time to time I think it's really very good . It took me 6 to 7 weeks to write my first game in AGK2 and it was really bad however it worked just.
Enjoy your evening.
Loktofeit
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15
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Location: Sarasota, FL
Posted: 8th Sep 2021 11:15
Qube_ wrote: "The Studio IDE 100% needs the side panel back with the list of Functions, Types, Variables, etc. "


Definitely!
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Pfaber1
6
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Location: England
Posted: 10th Sep 2021 19:19
Part time coder how do I go about making an exe file out of a lua file . I do have a program to do it lua2exe but it will only do one file at a time or am I missing something . I've tried putting 2 lua files into but It will only take one which is not too good as all lua programs need a module .
PartTimeCoder
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Joined: 9th Mar 2015
Location: London UK
Posted: 11th Sep 2021 01:11
Quote: "For example :
lua2exe -o myprog.exe script1.lua script2.lua script3.lua
will generate myprog.exe out of script1.lua, script2.lua and script3.lua."


Quote: "Only the first script given will be run when the generated executable starts. In our case script1.lua."


Seems easy enough.

What environment is Lua bound to? or standalone Lua (in Lua console)?

If Lua is bound to an environment you will not be able to use lua2exe as the environment needs to read the script but you can compile the scripts to bytecode "luac" so they are not "open source" but this bytecode can be decoded by some clever folk so its not exactly 100% but neither is compiling to exe.

What is it you are trying to do?

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Qube_
9
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Joined: 21st Oct 2014
Location: Omnipresent
Posted: 11th Sep 2021 05:27
Just seen the email regarding the upcoming update to AppGameKit and AppGameKit Studio :

email wrote: "Support for Android App Bundles is the main focus of this update to ensure full compliance with the Google Play Store rules.... We will also roll out an update for AppGameKit Studio later in September with similar changes to those in Classic, plus there’ll also be some IDE fixes and tweaks."


Three months since the last update and this is what we can expect? Sorry but I think that's a bit of a weak update

Makes me really worry that AppGameKit is becoming a little stagnant with little maintenance updates, no roadmap and constant heavy discounts. What is actually happening with AppGameKit and the plans for its future?



MikeHart
AGK Bronze Backer
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Posted: 11th Sep 2021 07:59
3 months for changing 1 or only a few lines of code.

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