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AppGameKit Studio Chat / New Update not released

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TamBam
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Posted: 14th May 2023 18:35
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April 2023 or May 2023 Update not released
Any one knows about the next update date ?
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 16th May 2023 16:16 Edited at: 16th May 2023 17:32
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In the newsletter it said sometime this month so it looks like we are getting 4 monthly releases now. There are still 465 open issues on GitHub so hopefully after 4 months quite a few will be closed.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 17th May 2023 03:17 Edited at: 17th May 2023 03:22
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@zaxxan
Where is the newsletter to be found?

Edit: Nevermind,found it !!
Talks about Ai and an update later this month for classic and studio due to apple ios changes.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 17th May 2023 10:22
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I'm hoping there's a lot more than just the Apple iOS changes.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 18th May 2023 04:10
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Not wanting to be negative but bigger things i dont expect other than bug fixes and one or 2 new commands,not after these years. I believe they will start work on a new version and it wouldnt make sense to give it for free.

Rather than new features i hope they change their business tactics,fidd a plan,change to yearly version updates,release a road map and start engaging more with their users to bring AGKS where it needs to be. That right there is what its most needed imho.
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Qube_
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Posted: 18th May 2023 05:09 Edited at: 18th May 2023 05:09
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I highly doubt we'll be seeing any major additions to AppGameKit Studio. I feel it is pretty much in maintenance mode now and relegated to bug fixes, API updates and the odd new little command. I hope I'm wrong but this is just the way it appears to me judging by the previous months and months.

Who knows if there is an AppGameKit Studio 2.0 in the works. All we can go on is that our much beloved AppGameKit always seems bottom of the list and the only important part is for TGC to just keep it working for their Learning to Drive App to work and be updated on the AppStores.

Of course speculations and opinions is all we can come up with as the power that be shove any roadmap for AppGameKit to the bottom of the pile too
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Pfaber1
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Posted: 21st May 2023 19:16
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Anew release of AppGameKit would be ok although I'm not sure what needs to be done. So long as they don't start a new language altogether as I won't want to learn from scratch over again. Who knows where the update is , might be a big one .
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Zappo
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 13:24
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Quote: "Who knows where the update is , might be a big one . "

I'm hoping so. I have a couple of projects finished and waiting to be released when some AppGameKit bugs are fixed.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 14:22 Edited at: 22nd May 2023 14:24
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TGC needs to pay bills so i think myself if there are some major updates and after all this time since it was released then i believe is justified to charge for it and i happily would pay for mayor features.

I just dont understand the system of making an app and giving updates for free for years.
Its not healthy to them nor for the users as there arent any insensitive for groundbreaking updates like an integrated 3d editor and a workflow ala unity or godot but programming with BASIC for exemple,what i highly wish one day to see for more easy editing.
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 15:41 Edited at: 22nd May 2023 15:45
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orvillion popped in @ the repo to advise that (at least) compiling iOS will be addressed by the end of the month.

personally, i wouldn't expect much more from the next update while that fix will be crucial to many.
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James H
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 18:17
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It isn't free to purchase - so release of updates is standard if you want to keep a price tag on the product. The updates ensure the product still works, for anything that no longer does then a suitable replacement is found or a t least a different way forward to achieve the products main goals or if goals have to be changed then to account for it. In essence the updates keep the product relevant enough to buy. Even when released for free it is not wise to just stop updates right away...that would give a person(s)/company a bad rep.

That said Lee made it clear in a GGM video there will be no DBPv2 or new language as his view is that nobody wants to code anymore. Take from that what you will but I doubt you will see any meaningful updates, just the minimum of what is needed to keep AppGameKit relevant enough to keep on sale.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 18:35 Edited at: 22nd May 2023 18:49
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TGC have definitely gone down the no coding root even though there has only ever been a handful of decent games released that have been produced with GameGuru and as yet none with GameGuru Max. They are also seriously pushing DLC for max which have been produced by 3rd party contributers and take a percentage from the sales (15% I think?).

I find the comment that no one wants to code hard to comprehend when the likes of Godot, Defold etc are successful.

TGC seem to have fallen out of love with Appgamekit even though they used it to create their driving apps which are very successful and earn them good money I would think. Also, there are a significant number of apps and games that have been created for different platforms with Appgamekit.

I think TGC are backing the wrong horse personally, but that is Just my opinion.

I would be willing to pay an annual maintenance fee if there were regular meaningful feature additions and bug fixes.

Appgamekit is a fantastic product we just need to make TGC realise that.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 20:18 Edited at: 22nd May 2023 20:39
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*That said Lee made it clear in a GGM video there will be no DBPv2 or new language as his view is that nobody wants to code anymore. *

Did he really say that
Well he is right and wrong at the same time.
It isnt that people dont want to code,code is a crusial part of game development.
Its just that with code alone not everyone is sucessful. They just did a code app using a neautiful lenguage(BASIC) and stoped there,thats the problem. By the time they integrated a 2d editor everybody was in Gamemaker studio or others...and lets be honest,code alone sucks for 3d.

So yeah,with all due respect for TGC and i admore them and their apps were a part of my youth...but ufff they really took the wrong path and wrong desicions. The chance to stablish themselves was there,DB/pro was vibrant but sadly they didnt push that further,instead they split their userbase in AppGameKit fans,dbpro fans,gg fans and even in classic and studio fans,how can be seen on the posts here in these forums. I personally would have push for tools as the base was already there. Scene editor,shader graph and tools to make it complete so that even non coders could show off something and shill the app.

So that sentence is right and wrong.

Sorry to derail the thread, i really wished this would be more,as basic is the only lenguage my brain can half understand, if godot or unity had Basic it would be a dream.
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James H
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 20:35 Edited at: 26th May 2023 22:19
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They have for a long time gone down the none coding root I think in terms of producing game makers, however the coding products where always considered a niche market and therefore limited I would guess in terms of sales. After all not everyone is a coder, so those numbers where always going to be limited especially as anyone who is a coder will be what i would say are "academically inclined" personalities that would not be happy to stick at the beginner language forever or indeed any longer than they have to.

There is also only so much money per person that can be made selling a language, even with dlc sales. This is where the game makers must have proven themselves in terms of income - else why double down on GGM?

They are also more attractive to beginners - quick results, a lot of the beginners are going to be young, the easy option is often very popular. The thing with popularity is it can often lead to even more popularity and sometimes just because of the fact it is popular The more sales the more likely artists will commit to dlc production, nice graphics enhances that popularity factor thus the cycle perpetuates - until folks get bored of just graphics. I worry it is a false bubble - at some point popularity wanes if its gain was based on how popular something already was. So all in all probably the best decision to back it heavily - assuming the product can actually deliver BUT just as importantly deliver in a timely fashion, if the final product is delivered at a time when the world already moved on, well, other things already became more popular. Committing solely to GGM is bad, it feels like an eggs all in 1 basket moment. they shouldn't ditch programming languages in favor of even more income imho it could backfire if game makers elsewhere beat it competition wise or game makers become no where near as popular.

However the view nobody wants to code anymore is not something I can appreciate, but then how can anybody appreciate somebody else deciding what your thoughts are...not deciding what they should be but what they are...well that is insulting. Now I am not taking it as personal slight lol but I completely disagree with it. "A lot more people willing to part with their cash don't want to code" is what he really meant. The tone I got from the response to the question in the video was not as they say in politics "good optics". Should have said "no" then moved on as it was DBP specific and the stream was for GGC/M. Kind of glad he didn't though, because the moment they make studio free it will be bye bye from me as at that point I will know further use will be close to pointless. It is not the first time he was asked about DBPv2 in these vids, and he has always plugged the "no need for code out of the box" line, and a couple times that I recall he did say "nobody wants to code" in slightly different context(about lua) but in a far more jubilant manner. This last time it felt more serious and dismissive.

They also should change their name from the game creators to the game creation tool factory!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ucCcsi4aoA&t=1800s
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 21:21
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To me it is not about what is fixed and what is not, to me it is about the editor, oh my lord.

AppGameKit classic editor is perfect compared to Studio and studio is more expensive and also suppose to be better.

I will not write my code in that and everyone knows why.

So it is not to much to ask for a update on a better working editor.

And I am not even to sure why it is the way it is, Because They could have ported the old editor with the new updated program.
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 22nd May 2023 21:28
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let's stick to the topic of a new update vs how some think TGC should run their company (again)?
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 23rd May 2023 00:26
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I'm hoping they improve the VSCode extension by improving the debugger and add help and a export option in the next update. Fingers crossed.
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Dark_ITheI _Angel
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Posted: 23rd May 2023 21:17 Edited at: 23rd May 2023 21:25
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@Virtual Nomad,

indeed is the wrong thread for that discussion.
But i hope it is allowed to express disconcern towards TGC as long as it isnt offtopic (like here) and it happens in a Respectful manner.

That is something that users do,be it in unity,ue5,3dsmax,lightwave,modo or Blender Forums.

I strongly believe in freedom of speech, i know you do a good job,managing the forums and helping people out,i go so far as to say you are the most valueable member here but i have seen how you react offended and try to cut it when TGC practices are being critisized and i find it is ok when users express their disconcern on the forums and talk about what they believe could have been better or what went wrong from their point of view,even if they dont own the company and even ifbTGC is a small team.

And lets be honest, it dosnt happen often or in a big scale,unlike in 3dsmax or lightwave 3d forums.

Just a thought,nothing personal.
Not going to derail this thread anymore , think OP got his answer and lets hope TGC have big plans for 2024,my wallet is ready!
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 23rd May 2023 23:09
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fair enough and much appreciated, dark (all of it, not just the compliment)

i do get itchy when dialogue leans toward bashing TGC since i see the forums as their rec room for us to hang out in. and no one (?) likes stepping on broken glass.

i'll try to keep a thick coat of benadryl applied!
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MikeHart
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Posted: 24th May 2023 06:54 Edited at: 24th May 2023 06:55
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If users don't ask what is coming next or users don't raise their concerns about the future of the product, how else does a creator of such product knows what its userbase wants?

Imho it is save to say that TGC doesn't want to invest in coding based tools anymore. They rather cater in the dev toys category. Which is fine, a company has to have a vision.
The statement "People don't want to code anymore" can only be taken as a personal opinion as the whole game dev industry is still coding based and that won't change. Any serious tools reflects that.
What is obvious is that people think you NEED to have a 3D editor to do anything worthwhile. I just wonder how people did it back when these where not a thing. Wlel I don't wonder, I know how they did it.
In Unity, you need to code. UE, dropped the development of their bluepoint stuff, all coding. Godot, dropped visual scripting, all coding. GameMaker, supports coding big time, Defold, Löve2D, Cerberus-X, etc. etc., all are coding based.
Even Construct and GDevelop are using coding based concepts, only in a visual style.

Yes you can create "Games" with click base tools like GGM but you are seriously limited by what TGC or a 3rd party provides you with functionality and content. And imho these creations will have more than once a similar look and feel to them.
A beginner or a non "dev-sawy" person will appreciate these tools, but their won't get far on their own.

Finishing my 2 cents, I think all the discussion here was not a derailment of the topic because updates to AppGameKit are rare these days and it all come back to WHY that seems to be. I am glad TGC positioned themself in that video clearly and the AppGameKit community knows now what they can expect regarding the future for AGK.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 26th May 2023 06:49 Edited at: 26th May 2023 06:55
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The infrequent updates and the quality of the updates says a lot about TGC's position on Appgamekit.

Even though Appgamekit is my favourite programming language I stopped using it more or less 9 months ago because I don't have faith that it will still be supported in a few years time.

I would like to think that Appgamekit profits and perhaps some profits from the sale of the Driving apps could be reinvested in employing someone full time on the development and support of Appgamekit. It would be nice to get regular updates, new features, interaction on these forums and discord and GitHub updated on a regular basis. This would help to increase sales and the user base rather than what we currently have - declining sales and users.

I always get the impression that the updates are done in the last day or two of the 3/4 month update cycle and are rushed and untested resulting in a broken release which I find very frustrating.

GGM is sold as a no coding solution but to do anything meaningful with you need a whole bunch of Lua scripts which are either produced by a few community members or sold as DLC. The biggest users of GGM on discord appear to be talented artists and programmers selling and promoting their own DLC's wether that be assets, scripts or utilities. So although GGM is sold as a no coding product without the Lua scripts it would be nothing more than a toy.
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Zappo
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Posted: 26th May 2023 17:27
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@Zaxxan - I am sadly coming to the same conclusion. I've been a TGC customer since DarkBasic, through DarkBasic Pro, AppGameKit 1, AppGameKit V2, and I love AppGameKit Studio. It is by far the easiest rapid coding solution when developing for multiple platforms. I pre-ordered GGM as my way of supporting TGC but haven't even downloaded it yet as I don't want to use a "no-code" game maker. Unfortunately I get the impression bug fixes and updates for AppGameKit are coming to an end (but please correct me if I am wrong). I am basing this on there being no communication when updates or fixes are being worked on or release dates. I think I am going to have to try out an alternative development solution and see how I get on - which makes me sad
Communication is key.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 26th May 2023 20:06
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I also purchased GameGuru and GGM + DLC to support TGC not realising that it would be detrimental to Appgamekit, I really regret buying those products now. I am also trying out other solutions but I'm not enjoying them anywhere near as much as Appgamekit, this makes me sad as well.
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James H
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Posted: 26th May 2023 20:22
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Quote: " i do get itchy when dialogue leans toward bashing TGC since i see the forums as their rec room for us to hang out in. and no one (?) likes stepping on broken glass. "

I totally get this - I feel because AppGameKit boards are about as busy as what DBP used to be towards the end, anything that can be perceived in a negative light, no matter how small, stands out like a sore thumb given there is not much else to read.

Quote: "I am glad TGC positioned themself in that video clearly and the AppGameKit community knows now what they can expect regarding the future for AGK"

This pretty much sums it up for me. Disappointing but it is what it is.

Quote: "Communication is key"

+1 if it was not for that video, we would not have a clue, the thing is it wasn't provided to us but to the GGM community and only because someone had the stones to ask about a none GG product in the Q & A! This I must admit, does bother me a little.

I genuinely hope those in need of an update with a fix for their own product get one soon.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 26th May 2023 21:39 Edited at: 27th May 2023 09:46
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Does anyone have a link to the GGM video?

I've watched the video now and I think we can safely say from Lee's comment that there is no road map for Appgamekit which is such a shame.
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James H
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Posted: 26th May 2023 21:44
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Its on my post about 11 posts up, couldn't work out how to embed it straight away so didn't even bother trying any further, the link takes you to direct time, save you some time, should be 30 mins in I think
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 26th May 2023 22:27 Edited at: 26th May 2023 22:30
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i tried to embed the vid but it seems we can't set a start time so i turned it into a link instead.

meanwhile, yeah. i don't think the aside means a heck of a lot. but, if you're looking for "it", you can find it there.
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EdzUp
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As an old school programmer who uses code to visualise everything I need to create the games I want to I dont see GameMakers as much of a useful tool for me, if support for AppGameKit and finally AppGameKit Studio is retired in favour of kiddie tools where you click and drag etc then for me at least I will definitely look to other platforms like Unity or Unreal as they support languages and have done for years. It will be a sorry state of affairs if TGC becomes a game factory maker rather than a multitool creator with programming languages as well.
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Pfaber1
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I hope it hasn't come to that point. But if that is the way I will go and find something else. Maybe after this long wait they have something up their sleeve.
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 30th May 2023 13:05
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Well it's over 4 months since the last update so let's hope so.
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EdzUp
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Well they normally release an update every six months so June is the month to watch
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Zaxxan
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Posted: 30th May 2023 15:22 Edited at: 30th May 2023 18:48
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They committed to releasing an update every 3 months.
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 30th May 2023 16:34
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Hi all,

Thanks for the comments.

As many of you will know, Paul has left the TGC team for pastures new, which has lead to us having to restructure. This is taking more time that we'd have liked.

We are however, 100% committed to AppGameKit, and will keep update coming, although these may be slower in the short term than some would like.

Thanks for sticking with us
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 30th May 2023 16:57 Edited at: 30th May 2023 16:57
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Paul is a Legend

THANKS for it all!
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Paul has left the TGC team for pastures new?

Wait

What?

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Zaxxan
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Posted: 30th May 2023 18:46
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Oh no! That's really bad news but that does help to explain the delays with the updates. I wish Paul well for the future.
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Virtual Nomad
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for those that don't know, paul's "legend" status began about here (for me). that's when/how i came to "know sparky" anyway. and, a little more.
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James H
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Oh wow - I did not have a clue he was responsible for those - bought em all and sparkies collision ftw(a very generous give away to say the least), legend probably is a bit of a mild description no? A big loss for the team right there. It's great to hear of the continued commitment but seems bitter sweet now I know the rest. Thanks VM for the info. Thanks Scene Commander for letting us know.

Thank you Paul for for all the time of thorough enjoyment you brought to my life at least. Almost makes me wanna fire up the ole DBP again!

Someone from TGC should let him know just how thankful we all are
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EdzUp
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Posted: 30th May 2023 23:34 Edited at: 30th May 2023 23:35
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We all wish Paul well for his new adventures, it would have been nice to have just a mention of this before now than loads of specilative doom threads which to be fair doesnt look good when there is no input from TGC at all
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Qube_
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Thanks Paul and all the best with your new endeavors.

The creator and main developer of AppGameKit has left the building which I think is a devastating blow to any real further full on development. I guess our dreams of an AppGameKit Studio 2 and beyond are shattered now?. Restructuring as in looking for someone to take over AppGameKit properly in the same capacity as Paul was when AppGameKit was in full swing development or just for bug fixes and API updates?

OK AGK'ers, placards at the ready and repeat after me.. "What do we want?" - "A full time AppGameKit developer" - "When do we want it?" - "Now!"

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Posted: 31st May 2023 07:11 Edited at: 31st May 2023 07:33
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Love TGC and the products they release. However, I wish they'd back away from the drag and drop FPS engines. Day 1 release or announcement of MAX we asked for RPG elements, FPS elements, Survival, and other game types. Problem is I believe gamers have moved on. In the FPSC days, yeah for sure. We all wanted to create that Doom, FEAR, Wolfenstein type of game or for users to play multi player maps.

I understand where they're coming from, people want click, easy, game and done. When it isn't click and easy, they want the feature implemented. They are never going to satisfy every user. My complaint is that TGC has a similar pattern with other engines. FPSCreator DX10, FPSCreator Reloaded, FPSCreator original (Left for the community to develop), DarkBASIC Pro. Game Guru was seriously a pile (Zombie killer Game #500 please). There is no exact outlook as to where any engine or product is going with TGC. Games may have been created and released, but as we say and has been said in this exact thread there goes the cookie cutter games, round 4.

I don't need an AppGameKit Studio 2. I just want this as of right now $99.00 engine, or $430.00 for a bundle to remain solid! It works well enough for indie/professional projects, I get that. We still need those minor bug fixes addressed. I don't want the community to fix it, or for us to find work arounds. Qube_ I agree. We need a full time developer on AppGameKit Studio or a community manager to address such issues and let us know what's going on. Can we get Synchromesh from Steam and Game Guru Max to also work on AGKS? That developer is a baller always on the products page addressing issues and developing in MAX.

App Game Kit, last YouTube video three years ago. (In the comments it was suggested many tutorial videos are to be released. Where?)
Game Guru Max, last YouTube video one month ago.
Go to the news section of MAX. Booster after Bundle Pack released.
Check out Newsletters, nothing note worthy. Neat, GG Classic Updates by the community, more packs and Apple changes.
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Game_Code_here
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Posted: 31st May 2023 07:51
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The problem is money and I believe they do not make enough to afford to hire others.

Now, make App Game Kit as good as dark basic pro with the command set and then we will see new people coming in to buy as there are trillions of people making computer games with Unity and other game engines like it because they want to make good quality games.

But those are just eye candy because you can not code in those .

I have been testing out App Game Kit and to be honest, it already is just as good as Unity and the others in every way just missing some good commands. And that makes me happy to know I can compete with the best with just coding.

For some reason others think the money is in phone apps but to be honest, there are millions of people trying to make computer games with other engines. And on the look on steam there are million of buyers for good computer games.

So make this more for computer games just as it is for phone apps and I believe it would be a best seller. And I also believe the easy learning curve for the language would also attract new people.

So there is my two cents on any updates.

Make more commands for 3d games.

But, That is just my girl mind opinion. What do I know? I know guys think different then girls.

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agkcoder
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Posted: 31st May 2023 08:28 Edited at: 31st May 2023 08:29
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Surprising news. Best wishes to Paul!

For me the important message is "We are however, 100% committed to AppGameKit, and will keep update coming,..." That's what matters to me.

Sticking with AppGameKit, no question.
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Drillfoot
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Posted: 31st May 2023 11:02
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@Game_Code_here

Good observation. I love App Game Kit and like I said I use it daily. There is room for more 3D commands as I look at the documentation. However, admittedly, I have no experience with it. I've stuck to 2D, although learning the 3D aspects of this engine would be great in the long run I suppose. You're right money can be a factor in hiring and maintaining quality personnel. I also understand that engines take time and years to develop and maintain. I get it. AGKS got a 2D editor and since you mentioned Unity, or even Unreal could you imagine a 3D editor? The ability to place objects, set properties and off we go? Insane how people would come to that. Why would they potentially leave Unity or Unreal to come here? Well as a member for over 10 years of TGC, Unity and Unreal communities this is where the TGC one outshines most. We encourage and applaud developers both beginner and advanced to professional. I've seen people in other communities get walked right out the door they came in basically. Also this community and the engine itself is so user friendly. The ability to write code and have it work in multiple projects and reusability is flawless. Unreal has done away or is in the process of removing blueprint programming or scripting, so C++ and what not it is for people there. Although I do enjoy Unreal and its level building.

@AgkCoder

I hope they stay committed. Most people aren't asking for a "create game" button, but just a solid frame work to build off of, which of course it already is. Although I haven't ran into the game breaking bugs as others have, it is a nice development environment that I enjoy. I'm also sticking with it!
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Qube_
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Posted: 31st May 2023 13:24
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If it's lack of money then begin with a simple GoFundMe page just to get a starter fund going.

Then have 'AGK Studio super pro extreme' for £99 which gets you 12 months of updates. If after 12 months you want to keep receiving updates then you pay, say £49 for each additional year. If at any point you don't want to pay for a further year of updates you've still got a fully functional app but you just can't get the latest shiny version.

I don't see what's wrong with that licensing method as it guarantees continued income for a products full lifecycle.
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ReFure
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Posted: 31st May 2023 19:07
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Thank you Paul and best wishes for the future!
'Faraway', made with AGK
reFu.re
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