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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / The program closes itself.

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pavel_sv_1982
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Posted: 31st May 2024 12:36
Please need help. The program closes itself. After updating Windows 10,
many programs stopped working, and some closed themselves after launching. Including darkbasicpro.
Doesn't create any logs. Doesn't mean mistakes. It just closes stupidly and that's it.
programming is a hobby, not a job.
P.S. in google and youtube - nikename pavelman- it is not me!
Dimis
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Posted: 1st Jun 2024 08:39
Hi, I wanted to make a thread about this too. Indeed, DBpro keeps closing immediately after launch, it might work 1 out of 10 times or so when I try to run it, but mostly it just closes, it happens on two computers that I have it installed, I didn't experience any programs closing so far. Setting DBpro compatibility mode to windows 8 seems to have fixed it, but I can't tell if this is a permanent solution.
Any insights on this?

Wow I have been away from the forum tooo long!
James H
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Posted: 1st Jun 2024 13:40
Welcome back

Well now I thought this seemed an odd thing to just happen..I am on w10 and hadn't experienced that before...until I just opened the editor after reading this and it crashed.

I haven't used dbp for a short while, probably when Evolved produced a bunch of matching shaders for agk and dbp was when I last compiled anything in dbp - so within the past 6 months.

So I thought knew it was working. Occurred to me that i actually use the free editor codesurge and open project files by association(although I defo have used the shipped version because it opens on my second screen which is newer than when I installed dbp) - so i checked that and also Indigo IDE.

They both are fine - as is the older editor that is shipped with dbp, iirc there is another version of dbp that has a real old original editor plus editornew, this version of dbp that i have does not have that, instead it has 2 different versions of synergy(editor and editornew), In both cases editornew is an option you have to manually set yourself in one for the installed text readable files by altering the name of the editor...I also checked the other shipped editor(ie not editornew) that I have installed to see what compatibility I had set - none, in essence the issue is compatibility mode and editornew is the only one affected - for me at least.

Win8 mode does seem to work thanks for the info Notably not one of the working editors have compatibility mode set and editornew has never run on newer OS's without the compatibility mode be set. i am unable to check the even older original editor as I do not have that installed.

So just don't use the affected editor if compatibility set to w8 becomes unstable.
Win 10 Home 64, Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10300H, 8GB DDR4, NVidia GeForce GTX 1650 4GB GDDR6
SoftMotion3D
AGK Developer
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2024 14:31
I can confirm the same thing...... my windows 10 just did an update and killed the "EditorNewBlue"

i did manage to get the older one working however as a temporary fix "editornew" but its not that great to use..... Looks to me like this is just the editor crashing.
SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2024 14:35
the fix is in this thread https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/209135

use the synergy editor ..... this one works!
Dimis
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2024 17:06
James H, it is probably only the editor, for the past years I have only been working with the 9Ex modified version (from the GitHub), now this problem is very recent, it started after the last win10 update I think, as SoftMotion3D suggested I downloaded the synergy editor and it works just fine! Is there any real difference launching the editor directly instead of using the launch.exe? I did change the launch.cfg file to use the synergy editor instead of the EditorNew.exe, but I was just wondering what is the difference.
Now pavel_sv_1982 mentioned about programs also closing after the Win10 update, I tried some programs I have made with dbPro and they all work, so I don't know if there are more problems after that update.
pavel_sv_1982
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2024 17:34
It’s strange, but 7 out of 10 attempts only run this file. and sometimes only the old one. That is, they work one by one. And Windows has to forcefully allow these programs.
programming is a hobby, not a job.
P.S. in google and youtube - nikename pavelman- it is not me!
James H
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2024 18:50
@Dimis I have a real bad memory lol - I don't recall specifically, only that it was touted as better than the previous version(I am talking about the 2 versions of synergy ide that come shipped with a specific version of dbp). If I where to install dbp without updates the very old ide would be there so do not know why it isn't here now. Only one of 2 things possibilities I know of - either I manually deleted it or one(or more) of the dbp updates made the change(most likely given both you and I have 2 versions of synergy in there that came with with the install or an update right?). I know when I was using 7.7rc7 I had the really old(not synergy) editor - editor.exe, I have it installed on my old desktop machine and it also has editornew.exe but does not have 2 versions of synergy, ....on my laptop I have version 7.61 which does not have the really old editor but does have 2 versions of the synergy editor, so editor.exe and editornew.exe installed as default.

Some of the updates address permission issues with different windows versions. I don't believe they ever truly sorted it out and then the updates stopped, work on fpsc reloaded(I think it was this name or maybe an earlier name?) started, which if anyone recalls was written in dbp, when that happened Lee went back to using an older version of the updates, then all that changed from using dbp for the source to either c/c+ or whatever and got renamed to Gamegguru. A least that is what I think I remember! Someone feel free to correct me on any of this.

With respect to which editor and does it really matter - in short yes unless with what you are doing it doesn't matter...for example, with the newton physics plugin, some editors will cause the first person shooter demo to lock movement of the demo in such a way that it is immediately not playable. Another factor is compile time, I forget which ones are fastest but one is notably quicker(might be codesurge or indigo), the rest where not quite as fast, and one of them was really slow. This behavior I noticed when using evolveds advanced lighting system...because there is a dramatic difference in compile times when you include a file using the include command, versus having it tied directly to the IDE, it can be not so noticeable with evolveds demo until it comes to having all of them open in the IDE, yeah different matter then! iirc that is why Balids Indigo editor is my favorite as the best all round solution, the compile time...that said if you have a copy of kaehdros plugin of evolveds older advanced lighting system, well that's so fast for compiling its hard to believe the 2 lots of code are the same project!!! In case you are unaware, a few months ago evolved changed his site for different shaders altogether, his old one is there still but to access the old one you will need to swap /shadersnew/wpostprocessing for /advancedlighting/advancedlighting in the address bar if you didn't already have it bookmarked....he changed the link when you click on shaders section for shadersnew. There was other behavior between editors noticed amongst users but right now my mind is doing that thing where it goes blank, but I do distinctively remember reading posts pointing them out - there was not a lot of them though. With that said it does not mean there are not more undiscovered issues.

With regards to programs compiled in dbp not working...I have never released anything but only tried my own on various machines I own or have owned along with trying them on maybe less than say 10 machines belonging to other people. Of course I am talking about this being the case during the time dbp received updates and since. On Vista I had to set DEP exceptions to stop silent fails on execution and Defender exceptions to stop any executable disappearing into thin air - same with some anti virus software to. On win 7 it was mostly DEP exceptions needed setting up but mostly only during the period of time when they where still updating it significantly in the earlier years and varied from win7 versions as I have had home and pro. WIn10 no issue, I haven't had any other windows(98/98/2000/XP I have but yeah no chance I can recall that far back!). Only other thing I would say is I think every version needed admin permissions settings but there where differences there too. On win10 I have launch and editor with permissions, on other version it was editor dependent - I THINK I am right in saying that one or more editor plus launch having permission could invoke a forever loop of error messages which could all be killed at once in task manager. Which editor and which windows versions, again I have a bad memory. This is about all I can remember.
Win 10 Home 64, Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10300H, 8GB DDR4, NVidia GeForce GTX 1650 4GB GDDR6
xanfax
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Posted: 10th Jun 2024 06:29
Hey, been silently using documenting and collecting every bit of this IDE and language I can get my hands on. I've been working with DBP+DPhys for going on three years now and have a ground-up game engine in the works. When this issue cropped up, I thought "Oh no, not now. Windows killed my IDE, just like they blocked the DBP Free installer". But, I found the issue.

Wanna know why EditorNew.exe fails to stay open? It's your registration certificate for DBP itself. if you remove the DarkBASIC activation certificate, the editor launches and stays open 100% of the time. I uncovered this after a complete fresh install of W10 and all related software.

Event Log says app error 1000, task ID 100. That means, failed to launch/crashed, usually something to do with core system files or .NET

This seems to be an issue related to a recent W10 "security" update.

Oh I'd also like to mention, the reason the DBP debugger fails to work is because it relies on running things from temp dirs on some very deep level, and no setting will affect this behavior. Whoever's maintaining the project, if anyone is at all, ought to try setting up to execute in DBP's local folder with full perms instead of temp folders. Temp folders were heavily abused by viruses in the past, so they're pretty tightly locked down now.
xanfax
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Posted: 10th Jun 2024 09:51
Update:

I've reinstalled windows. DO NOT DO THIS. It has completely rendered any app I wrote DEAD. They crash at launch with a BEX error, pointing to DEP issues. But with DEP disabled completely I just get "Appcrash". This is a serious issue for anyone with active projects in this IDE.
xanfax
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Posted: 10th Jun 2024 19:21
Update 2:

I've traced a BEX event following the crash to VC++ redists, so that seems to be fixed. It should give a resource-not-found dialog for this. But still getting event 1000. Nothing seems to mitigate this, almost like SysWOW is broken or something. It really seems busted.

Someone try something for me: Run one of your homebrew apps on a fresh install of up to date W10, let me know if it opens. App must use 3D, basic printing seems to work fine. Bet it fails to launch without an error.
Dimis
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 11:24
@xanfax Ok, that sounds bad. I don't have access to a pc with a fresh win10 install, so I can't test. I am glad that I am keeping my older desktop pc permanently offline, as a backup means for continuing development or maintaining older projects, in case something goes wrong with dbPro, but still if apps cannot run anymore, well I guess it all relies on the possibility of a future dbpro update. That doesnt sound likely though. The latest and probably final dbPro update was Rudolpho's DBPro 9Ex version.
You mentioned basic printing seems to work fine, so is it apps that use 3d that fail to launch, or all apps? And it happens on old apps or also on apps that have been compiled after the win10 re-installment?
James H
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 13:13
Evolved has been selling TreeIT on steam and that is written in DBP. I am using w10 which is kept up to date. There are no issues with his app running. It is written using version 1.071. I am fairly sure that this is the same version that Lee went back to when he was remaking fpsc(reloaded I think was the name) before then deciding to switch to c++.
Win 10 Home 64, Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10300H, 8GB DDR4, NVidia GeForce GTX 1650 4GB GDDR6
xanfax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 13:29 Edited at: 11th Jun 2024 13:31
@Dims Yeah, not looking good I'm afraid. I don't have an older ver to test against, as I can't find a source for the classic exe and stopped using W7 and prior a long time ago for security reasons. I've seen someone here on the forum within the last week talking about a new DBP precompiler and editing env, perhaps that could be a thread to pull. They seem self-motivated and intelligent so, fingers crossed.

Here's the thread: https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/229638

Basic text programming seems to work fine, but the 3D apps I try to launch fail. Regardless if I compiled the program when it was working or try to compile it now, the end result is the same. I've got three years of good baks on physical media, those won't even run. Programs do attempt to launch, but are denied access to required filepaths from the looks of things? The windows event viewer is pretty nebulous about it, same for Procmon. But I've been seeing a lot of "FILE LOCKED WITH ONLY READERS" and object/path not found. Mostly seems related to /users/appdata/local/temp, where DBP by default tries to stick it's files while compiling. See attached image. Looks like it's storing and mapping a ton of plugin DLLs in there when a DBP executable is run, or maybe looking for references. I thought those were just syntax libs the compiler referenced, not just an actual function DLL the resulting exe calls. Anyone know what's up with that? It would certainly explain why a <2,000 character program compiles to a 7Mb exe...

I genuinely feel that the worst part of this, is it's not our fault and just so happens to align with Microsoft's push to make Windows 10 useless and sell W11. But I'm not installing an OS that says a Ryzen 7 1700 with 32Gb and a Vega64 8Gb isn't enough for it. I'm an indi dev I ain't made of money lol
So I'm having to actually seriously consider porting my project to C++ and Omniverse/NGD. Which I'd rather not do.

Hmm just an afterthought but, does the EditorNew exe happen to store certificate-related info in the user temp folder? If it did, that would explain why it fails to stay open after lic eval with the DBP cert installed, but not with it removed. This *could* all end up as simple as someone tweaking a few embedded filepaths.

xanfax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 13:42
@James H Software MAY still run, if a Windows computer is not completely up to date. But from all my tests, so far it seems like a fresh W10 install always blocks 3D apps. I haven't tried removing every plugin one by one yet because of how tedious it is. You or your friend should perform a fresh install on a spare drive and attempt to run his game. If you find that it fails to launch due to something Microsoft broke, you can use that as potential leverage to get them to fix this crap. Also unless 1.071 is the version in the DBP free installer, I don't have it. And the upgrade I have says "762" so, is that 1.762 or 7.62? If you're talking about the open source git version, no. Just no. I struggled with that, and found far more success manually patching official installers. It was never mentioned that tons of stuff still relies on certain files and folders being in certain places.

And before anyone asks, yes I've tested all my HW as well. Zilch, nothing. Oh but my wife's 3D design rig, which somehow screwed up it's own windows update, so won't update?... That runs everything just fine.

It's not a problem with DBP (aside from ancient use of a temp folder), it's Windows. I bet if someone slapped this onto Windows 7 with dependencies it'd work fine.
Dimis
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 15:10
So only 3D apps? That's interesting, it's been many years since I installed windows 10 on my current desktop pc, so I am not sure if I remember correctly, but I recall having similar problems with apps not running, until I downloaded and installed directx9, (although win10 supposedly supported dx9 perfectly), still seems totally unrelated but maybe you could try that? From the other hand microsoft is trying to force a win11 upgrade by all means, my current desktop pc is unworthy of holding windows11 according to microsoft (insert image of Thor unable to lift mjolnir here) , so even if I wanted to upgrade I cannot. I can only install win11 on my laptop, which is lower specs than my desktop, but again according to microsoft it can upgrade to win11. So we should expect more problems while we are still using win10.
Now I wonder how dbpro works on windows 11.
xanfax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 15:22
@Dimis tried DX9 and 9.0c, one of the first things I thought of. Plus all my other DX9 games (Half Life, Portal 1, L4D etc) run just fine.

As far as your laptop, it's down to the CPU. Microsoft wants specific CPUs so they can run Copilot on it, which if you don't know about you should DEFINITELY research. It's NOT secure and has already been broken into by indi security auditors on youtube to demonstrate how unsafe it is. It also may have to do with TPM hardware, judging by how they're not fixing the Ryzen 7 TPM system.

MS is running their OS like Android and just obsoleting old hw to continue existing as opposed to innovating.
Dimis
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 19:55
@xanfax I wouldn't trust Copilot either, I don't want to install win11 on any of my PCs, even at my work our IT guy is against using win11, I don't think I have ever tried win11 anywhere. But I believe that we will be forced to migrate eventually. I have seen the thread about OpenDarkBASIC, I hope it continues, looks promising.
Just one last thing, did you try running apps with compatibility mode set to windows 8? I managed to run dbPro normally after setting compatibility to windows 8. Ok, I don't expect that this is a real solution, best case if it works it is a temporary solution until, I don't know, maybe another win10 update fixes those problems, or another solution is found?
xanfax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 20:19
@Dims Yeah, I've managed to get EditorNew running after installing redists and DX9 etc and setting to always admin compat W8, but the same settings on apps still produce the same result. Crash with no error, event ID 1000, nul pointer. Windows says the program is trying to access memory illegally, and it's certainly something to do with the new threat mitigation patches released within the last month. The same fixes apparently also apply in large part to W11, so I bet we'll have trouble there too.

I'm also considering PureBASIC, but I'd like to be able to continue using the HLSL .fx format for my SM3 shaders, it's incredibly easy to use and FX Composer still runs (mostly).
Dimis
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 21:16
This is just sad... I have been working on a game since covid era, it is almost complete, I don't have the time or the energy to start with a new engine now. Even if this is something that happens on fresh installs now, another future update will probably make all dbpro apps stop working on all windows systems, killing dbPro.
This can't just be a dbpro problem, other apps from other developers should also experience same issues, who knows, could microsoft somehow be forced to look into those problems and provide solutions?
xanfax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 22:36
@Dimis Yes, other programs have been affected. And, someone ITT mentioned that a commercial game was developed in DBP. If that game starts to fail due to a Windows issue, the author has real reason to complain. In public if need be.

However, I've been checking alternatives.

PureBASIC seems to be the closest thing to DBP. it supports DX9 and OpenGL2 (iirc), and can support later versions if you're comfortable with writing the implementation yourself. The syntax is essentially the same, only gramatically different, same semantics though. Eg; "Function" becomes "Procedure". The language is also greatly QoL expanded to support more modern conventions, such as not explicitly needing to specify "A=A+B", you can just write A+B similar to HLSL's += operator. You do still have the option to use the full expansion, though. it also comes equipped with commands for handling 3D entities in an object-oriented manner, and typing can be done with a suffix or specification as with DBP. However instead of just "$" or "as string", you can do MyVar.s

Up next would be VisualBasic. While older, it's still supported and widely used. Not much to say about that, it's MS VisualBasic and runs on .NET so there you go.

After that, the closest thing that could be possible to port over to would be C++. But it would require advanced level knowledge of DBP to be a smooth transition. For instance, I have no problem understanding structs because I'm familiar with types in DBP. But someone who's only familiar with global/local single vars might be lost for a while. The upshot is, C++ would offer the most granular control over your app, is compatible with DX12 and the latest OpenGL, and actually outputs optimized ASM where DBP does a terrible job at that.
James H
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 22:49
@xanfax Which version of direct x 9.0c are you running...there is more than one version of 9.0c they don't include the full compliment of d3d9_xx.dll's that later dbp updates required
Win 10 Home 64, Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10300H, 8GB DDR4, NVidia GeForce GTX 1650 4GB GDDR6
xanfax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 22:56
@James H I've got the editor and compiler working (sort of?), just not 3D apps compiled by DBP. Do you know which specific redist is required? I'd love to try it, even if I do port to something else for QoL it'd be nice to have the fallback. I have the June2010 redist package local install, plus I tried a localdir copy of d3d9x.dll running version 9_31 which didn't work so has been removed.
James H
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 23:31 Edited at: 11th Jun 2024 23:32
That is the correct dated version of 9c...I would reinstall it, actually re download it to, maybe it was corrupted in some minor way, you should have from d3d9_24 up to d3d9_43 in both system wow 64 and system 32 folders of windows. I just happened to notice number 35 file in your screen shot before is what made me think oh yeah they had 9c second version that would cause my dbp made apps to fail silently

When you say plugins that you where considering removing one by one except for the tedium earlier - um what plugins? Have you for some odd reason installed them even though you couldn't get the core product to work or something? Maybe you have been trying to use a back up from your previous setup ie copied over to the dbp app folder to your new setup? Or are you speaking of removing the core products existing plugins from the core installation to see what happens? I am a bit confused as to your meaning. If you did copy from a backup - there are plugins that will do this - create failing exe's - One particular plugin(3rd party unofficial and free though many felt it should have gone into the main product) is specifically affected by just one particular ms update that did not always get installed successfully - I found a number of ms updates that did not install correctly over the years on various machines. Anyway that plugin is IanM's matrix 1 utilities series of plugins, they will cause a silent fail, I narrowed it down to at least 2 of them but then over time some more stopped working. Dont ask me which ones or the specific code for the windows update I don't recall - it was definitely just one windows update though and that was for windows 7 - I was told by a mate his win 8 as well when I sent him a test app, however I havent seen anyone else report it to my recollection(I do have a bad memory at times though lol)

Another thought had occurred to me - you don't happen to be running more than 1 screen do you? No multi monitor support for dbp so if your dbp made app happens to be running on a none main monitor it will fail silently. Just a thought. Evolveds treeIT program that works does this when you drag it across - he/she isn't a "friend" btw, just a user from here who is having success selling on steam with dbp 7.1 made app - its a tree generator tool, not a game...and its free. Also although the github version is 7.1, it just happens to have 7.1 preinstalled, 7.1 is an ordinary update like all the rest - they are still available on here.
Win 10 Home 64, Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10300H, 8GB DDR4, NVidia GeForce GTX 1650 4GB GDDR6
xanfax
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Posted: 11th Jun 2024 23:53 Edited at: 12th Jun 2024 00:07
I've got all required files present in my system dirs, yes. And I'd like to remind you, all other signed DX9 games that don't access the temp folder run fine. I'll try temp removing the _35 version, see what happens.

A plugin can be test-removed simply be taking the associated .DLL out of the user-plugins folder, and the keywords file as well. The plugins all worked previously, and I've got the core product running. It took a bunch of nonsense though, and really *really* should mention what redists are required or include them or something...

No, the issue persists on hard-compiled backups of my software too. As in, I have three years of incremental backs of the software I was writing, fully compiled and in a ready-to-ship beta state. Those versions run on old installs of Windows 10, but not new ones. And for some reason they need to place copies of the .DLL files for specific plugins into the temp folder under users, which is a trusted env, meaning low-trust software (not signed by Microsoft Strong Trust) using the folder will see it in read-only mode for some cases. That's what the evidence suggests to me, anyway.

Also nope no second screen. Oh and I tried something else too, check this out:

Apparently if I compile with everything in the header commented out, not only does it still pack some of the plugin DLLs anyway, but that compiled exe will fail to launch for the same reason even though it does *nothing*.
So my *best guess* is that this is because unsigned apps are trying to store/access data in a trusted folder, which is forbidden.

Anyone good enough to modify the source, since it's available? Can we get the tempdir changed to the folder from which the source is compiled, or a compiled app is run in the case of a packed exe? That might legit fix all of this. There has to be a hardcoded filepath for these two things *someplace* because, none of the settings change anything. UseLocalTempDir, nothing. The only way I ever got it to compile properly was forcing the compile target folder to the project folder, which for some reason I can't seem to remember how I did it... Which generally means it was convoluted.

[edit]

Btw all the RC update links are broken for me and result in a connection timeout error from cloudfair.

[update]
Tried removing the _35 file, no dice.
James H
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 00:09 Edited at: 12th Jun 2024 00:15
I see.

You really should try a different IDE perhaps - some of them don't use the temp folder, at least I feel pretty certain they don't. You are speaking of the full source dump backup temp folder right?

As in you want it like this image



Edit
I see what you mean on the updates, sorry about that...I will try and dig out a link where a user may have them backed up
Win 10 Home 64, Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10300H, 8GB DDR4, NVidia GeForce GTX 1650 4GB GDDR6

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xanfax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 00:16 Edited at: 12th Jun 2024 00:36
@ James H Synergy Editor still uses the temp folder, idk about BlueIDE (is there a precompiled version?) and am not aware of others.

[edit]

By the way, my DBP dumps two folders into temp, is that normal? I get Dark Basic Professional TEMP and dbpdata, dbpdata is a folder containing dependency .DLL files.

This image is the contents of the dbpdata folder. I always sort of assumed these .DLL files just contained functions used by the compiler to parse the keywords into ASM, but I guess those keywords are just calling functions directly from the .DLLs?

[edit]

dbpdata is generated by *the app itself*, not the compiler or editor. The app itself is dumping dependencies and exposing raw .fx files which you may already know are just plaintext.

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James H
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 00:31 Edited at: 12th Jun 2024 00:57
https://www.zimnox.com/dbcc/index.php?page=resources
I use code surge and indigo, I think indigo also does not use the same temp folder as dbp, I do have blueide but don't use it as I prefer codesurge for quick and light stuff and indigo for bigger stuff, well when I last used to do "stuff" hehe, if you do try indigo there is no licence access any longer...just click ok and it will tell you you only have basic access. Which I couldn't say if balid changed it to full prior to end of support or not, but in any case its still better than synergy for me. I just don't touch synergy since the early days, before tgc took it as the official new editor. I don't seem to be able o find a bookmark for where I think someone backed up at least a few of the upgrades.

I dont know if you ever recall a time where you have to save a project to run it - codesurge is like that. It wont even recognize some commands if you try to just open and compile code from newer updates like object move stuff for example - even though dbp itself is updated. You have to start and save a new project first. A few have this issue. I open by double clicking the file ie file association anyway so I always have a blank project ready to use.

Edit
looks like indigo is not available and I get a bunch of bad links from the bottom section

Edit 2
Here are some updates at least and a bunch of other stuff, my page is not loading but when I linked to 7.7rc7 it did start to download. I did then go back to their coding page and spotted a couple more prerequisites for dbp mentioned just in case you forgot those, although the .net stuff I don't recall if its possible on cerrtain windows, I forget, oh it might be like version 4.5 that my last machine refused to install. But anyway thats about all the resources I can think of.
https://anyhowengine.wordpress.com/
https://anyhow.studio/index.html
In both cases dl links are in the useful links section but 1 link is the original site and the other is the replacement. There is all sorts there by the look of it at a glance, one day I might even get round to going through it all, I just casually bookmark stuff at times and it ends up in a bookmark folder of rubbish until years later on a rainy day I get bored and go through one or two of em.
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xanfax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 00:50
I actually had that exact problem with Synergy, the project had to be created by EditorNew first. But that wouldn't be a problem since my full source backups are gud. I tried CodeSurge, and you're right- it doesn't compile to temp. But, the app that compiles still tries to put dependencies into temp.

Is there a more up to date compiler, that I can choose the path of?
James H
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 00:59 Edited at: 12th Jun 2024 01:13
I have no idea on the compiler, theres just github is all I know of.

I just redited my post a second time with some links for you if you want them.

Edit

Did you try setting the uselocaltempfolder setting in setup.ini? I dont recall if you tried, I dont see where you said? i am talking of the compiler folder

edit 2
mind you its probably the wrong temp still lol

You could try and see if codesurge with admin rights suddenly works, I dont have admin rights set on my codesurge but then again I am not the one with the problem, but its a slim chance worth finding out if you already havent done so
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xanfax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 01:08
Oh heh, anyhow! wordpress.
I was gonna mention that place, as I already got a ton of content from there. But no RC builds unfortunately.

Anyway, update: The good news is, CS indeed DOES respect the LocalTempDir setting! However, the compiled app still chooses to externalise the DLLs, even though it's set to No. So we're down to it being the compiler forcing the resulting exe to dump dependencies into the temp folder. Another bit of evidence I got was, if you turn *on* LocalTempFolder, you suddenly get failed to parse with a LOCK_RESOURCE warning. By the way, these settings can be found in compiler>setup.ini

Ladies and gentlemen, we got 'em. We know the problem, now it just has to be fixed.
Mage
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 01:13
I installed DBP from CD. Then I just zipped up the directory with some of the exported registry keys. When I need to install again I just unzip the folder and import the keys when I want DBP installed. I've been doing this since about 2005. Never used the open sourced version.

Part of this approach is because of the addons and extras that are installed.

Using Synergy 1.1 Dec 12 2013
I see there is a 2015 update. I should download that.

I find synergy works well enough, though the Project Tree in the side bar will glitch out a little and freeze sometimes requiring me to click the code window to unstick it.





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James H
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 01:18
Ah I was doing a second edit when you posted, so yeah without the setup option not helping I guess your stumped. Now all you have to do is find a coder capable of fixing it and convincing them what the issue is and that its worth fixing for free hehehe
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xanfax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 01:22
There's GOTTA be one here. I don't know enough C++ yet, but someone here does. Y'all have over a decade on me, reach out if you can. Otherwise as you said, I'm stumped.
Dimis
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 08:23 Edited at: 12th Jun 2024 08:24
@xanfax About apps not working and dlls, after testing many dbPro apps in many machines, and getting all kind of error messages, missing dlls, or apps not starting at all, whatever, I always include 5 dll files in the same folder with the app (attached jpg), and apps are running normally. Even if those dll exist in the appropriate windows folder, still they could be the wrong version, or maybe the app can't find them, whatever, having those together with the exe seems to work better. You want me to upload those that I use to try out? Again it could be irrelevant but maybe give it a shot?

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Dimis
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 09:41
@xanfax Again all those subjects discussed above don't explain why the app crushes when using 3D, unless I missed something. Another thing I just tested, I have an old classic arcade games collection (MAME), that uses dx9 effects to improve visuals, early this year after another win10 update I couldn't use dx effects and play a game in fullscreen mode, the game would just crush on start, I had to either play in window mode or remove the dx effects to play a game. Happened both on my laptop and desktop, so that wasn't a display driver problem, it was the update. Today the games work normally, fullscreen with all effects works, so maybe the recent update fixed something? The apps you test crush even in window mode?
xanfax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 13:40 Edited at: 12th Jun 2024 20:59
@Dimis I already explained it, maybe I just didn't write it out well enough... it's been a busy two days, wife has a new job etc etc this was supposed to be a relaxing week coding and stuff heh...

The apps are relying upon libraries in my case which are being extracted to a target which cannot be accessed properly (localtemp). In my case I imagine it's probably PhysX, Styx, etc. Not to mention the fact DBP also dumps debug DLLs there for whatever reason, aaaand all the .fx files. When any app I developed with my previously working plugin suite is launched, I find it dumps a bunch of those plugin DLL files into a dbpdata folder in my localtemp. In conjunction with the event1000 offset 0xc0 (app failed, nul pointer), and Procmon saying the app is complaining about not having access or permissions in that exact same directory, I'd say this is exactly why my app won't launch: The app is unloading dependencies into localtemp even when I set ExternaliseDLLs off, and because of that and the last security updates (also my foolish idea to clean boot), the apps is not being allowed to run at all.

I've tried gaining access to the localtemp to fix older programs before, it's a nightmare. Windows *really* doesn't want you messing around in there anymore. I imagine now it's even more difficult.

Yes, they still fail in windowed. The only things I can get to run are the most simple, simple things. Things that don't use plugins, or 3D. But none of my other commercial software had done this. I have over 100 games on Steam, and it's only DBP having issues for me personally. Though I've read that others are having issues with things like Office and Adobe products.

See above posts. It's been confirmed that using CodeSurge, which doesn't touch the temp folder, compiles properly with no issues *unless* you set "LocalTempDir" to Yes, then you get failed to build lock_resource. That is because it's trying to build in a protected folder, that being temp.
And I'm not sure but, the behavior we're seeing from apps that dump their plugin DLL files into temp when run *may* have something to do with ExternaliseDLLs, a setting that doesn't seem to be respected and is actually omitted from the CS editor .dbpro output. 'cause, that is what the app is doing. Externalising it's DLLs to temp and trying to reference them.

I have a ton of the msvcp files, I'll go through them later to find out if I need one. But first, check this out:
"KB5039211: This update addresses an issue that affects lsass.exe. It leaks memory. This occurs during a Local Security Authority (Domain Policy) Remote Protocol (LSARPC) call."

They've realized they [BLEEPED ] up Windows Security. Memory leak? Interesting, before I installed a particular vcp redist, I was getting a BEX that would switch to appcrash when I shut off DEP. That's a buffer overflow exception.. Maybe the vcpr didn't actually fix what was causing the BEX, just bandaged it enough to stop the BEX and throw only the null. I'll post again after the update.

Now to finish my 12648430... (hex it ;])

[update]

Well the update fixed nothing, but immediately following it there was another definition update. It at least seems they know there's some kind of issue, but no telling if they'll end up fixing what they broke.

I'm going to install PureBASIC alongside DBP today and start working to get it to a state where I can fully port my engine. If I can, would you all like me to write a list of libs for PureBASIC to make DBP porting easy? I feel the most difficult things to port will be DarkPhysics, and a few of DBP's more advanced 3D functions. eg I didn't see a 3D raycast function, but then again I haven't checked out the entire guide yet. I could upload an include with my own functions to replace stuff like that, too. Would just take some time.
Dimis
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 17:18
@xanfax, Sorry, it is my fault, I read the last posts just before almost falling asleep on my laptop... that and an inflammation in my foot does not let me concentrate on what I am reading
I don't know maybe Rudolpho could look into this? He managed to fix very important things with the DBPro 9Ex updated version, like making the app use more than 2GB, fixed the device lost problem, among others. Or, well the forum has many experienced programmers that could possibly fix that.
You mentioned about Office and Adobe users experiencing problems too, if those issues involve similar folder access/security/whatever problems, it's not a small thing, it could be a leverage to force Microsoft to fix whatever they broke. Of course they could simply patch Office, and ask Adobe to fix their software, so.... they will not do anything.
xanfax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 17:52
No worries. I'm hoping for the same thing with regard to Office and such. On the other hand, hopefully someone here can look into this and just fix the actual issue, changing DBP's compiler so exes never try to use temp and instead just the exe dir. Apparently this was noted on the git page years back by someone who clearly thought something more nefarious was going on. However they did bring up that placing files in the temp dir caused issues. It was never addressed.
Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 18:09
@xanfax,

speaking of fixing, would you please fix your post to stay in line with the AUP?
xanfax
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Posted: 12th Jun 2024 20:54 Edited at: 12th Jun 2024 20:57
@Nomad what rule did I break? o.O
[edit] Oh I swore. Oops. I'll fix it, but we're all adults here and nothing got fixed so, /thread anyway.
ncmako
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Posted: 15th Jun 2024 12:23
So ... going back to the initial question... did anyone figure out why the EditorNew.exe crashes with win10?
I've been reading the posts one at a time trying to figure out this whole mess
** WHERE'S MY eXplosys ? **
xanfax
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Posted: 15th Jun 2024 14:28
Yes, Windows 10 security essentially. You can get EditorNew to work by installing required VCC & .NET along with DirectX9.0c June 2010 Redist. Then set it to compatibility mode Windows 8, admin.

But there's no point, certain very useful library plugins (Styx, DarkPhysX, D3D_Func) get extracted into the temp folder when you run a built app for some reason. Without those plugs, DBP is a seriously weaker lang.

Right now Fallout 4 and Sims 3 have been added to the list of programs that don't work after fresh Windows 10 install. Microsoft doesn't seem to care.

PureBASIC is paid and still not quite as powerful. I'm moving to C++, see you on the other side of forever,

This will be my last post here unless the IDE and apps it generates are fixed. Also I saw a screenshot of the ASM generated by DBP for simple operations... not cool man.
ncmako
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Posted: 15th Jun 2024 20:48
Thanks Xanfax I'll try your suggestions
** WHERE'S MY eXplosys ? **
Mage
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Posted: 16th Jun 2024 12:39
These DLL's are being unpacked to a temp folder when compiled programs are launched each time? or is this just during the compiling process?

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Dimis
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Posted: 25th Jul 2024 18:47
@Mage. Xanfax mentioned that it happens at launch or while the program is running, either way I can't comfirm that, testing my own programs I didn't notice something like that happening in the temp folder, perhaps it happens with specific dlls that I don't use. Then again I don't have a fresh installed version of win10, he also mentiones that programs crash on a fresh install, so I don't know. I only have problems with the editor (the EditorNew.exe).
Something I have noticed, I don't know if it is important but when the editor closes it doesn't seem to crash, it seems to terminate normally (after 3-5seconds from launching), I can see the window fading out just like when clicking the close button. Testing by making my programs to crash they just close without fading out. I don't recal any program fading out when terminating unexpectedly but I could be wrong. Perhaps some kind of windows security feature simply closes the editor for some reason?
Also if I insist launching the editor, after a random number of attempts it stays open and works normally.
Wizard007
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Posted: 7th Aug 2024 10:05
Any news on this?

I just noticed the DBP editor (EditorNew.exe) closed itself. I'm using Windows 10. I have put it in Windows 8 compatibility mode and run as administrator as suggested. It now works like every 1 in 5 or 10 times. Is there any better workaround for this?

The programs I made seem to work fine. But reading this forum thread, it seems in a new Windows install they may not work. Is it correct? Is there any solution?

Do the editor and the programs work fine in Windows 11? even in a new install?

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