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Geek Culture / Thinking about the future, .VB, .net ....

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BearCDPOLD
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Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 8th Jan 2004 06:57
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Hey guys,
I'm just thinking about what I'm gonna do after I make some games with DB and I start moving into high school and college. I hear good thing about Visual Basic (I'm hoping it could serve as an introduction into actual Windows programming, handling runtimes myself), but I hear bad things about Visual Basic .net.
Is VB.net really that bad? Or... if it is, where the heck can you get VB 6, because Microsoft seems to want everybody to spend $1500 on Visual Studio to get the good features.

adios,
juvy

Juvenile Industries
Current Project: The First Room (FPS)
Soon to come:An rts, and a snowball fight game
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 07:55
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uh, your information is backwards my friend - all things considered VB.NET blows away VB6 in every aspect - YES EVERY.
If you would like to discuss this further please feel free to ask.



-RUST-

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heartbone
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 09:10
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When I lived in Seattle in 2001 a close friend gave me MS Visual Studio 6. Boxed and licensed, the lLegal full distribution worth $1400 retail, straight from the M$ employee store. Not to be resold. I opened the box and looked at the disks and multitude of included service packs and patch disks. I skimmed the docs. I read the license agreements with amusement. After serious thought I gave it back to him.

VB6 is a much better choice for casual programming. You have to commit both your computer and mind to Visual Studio. Also as M$ changes their OS you have to keep on shelling out the bucks to keep the development system working.

Of course you can get better results with the Studio over the VB6 but the price/performance ratio is horrible for individuals.

Look in COMPUSA or STAPLES for a low end VB6 compiler. If none there try a computer swap meet.

Better yet grasshopper, forget any Windows specific language and learn Python before you go to college and get big jump on your peers.

Peace, the anti-Bush.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 09:48
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Quote: "VB6 is a much better choice for casual programming"

agreed, but in relation to what? Casual java? Casual C++?

Quote: "You have to commit both your computer and mind to Visual Studio"

You have to commit both your computer and mind to > whatever it is youre doing, no? java,c++,vb,flash,lingo,DBP ?

Quote: "Also as M$ changes their OS you have to keep on shelling out the bucks to keep the development system working."

well here's a .net advertisement if I ever heard one. remember that OS that is coming down the pipe, "longhorn" ? It is entirely based on .NET technology (XML) -- prepare for changes in all aspects of what you do (if you use a windows OS, that is) Now would be the time to get busy in the .NET arena. As far as having to shell out bucks to keep a development envirionment working I both agree and disagree when it comes to M$. I have maintained VS6 since 1998 at a cost of exactly $0 - no pirating whatsoever, but... My VS.NET Enterprise Architect 2002 is another story, let's just say I am resourceful.

Quote: "forget any Windows specific language and learn Python before you go to college and get big jump on your peers"

Well, if he does so, he will have a jump on his peers for sure, but is the jump in the right direction? Yeah, he'll know python, while most others don't, but is knowing python really that lucrative ? I look at the want adds all the time and I notice tons of ads for C++,VB,VB.NET,C#,Java,ASP,ASP.NET,html,SQL,Oracle,VBA,etc, not too much asking for Python. Don't get me wrong - It's great, and great to know, but in today's market...? Something a little more "prevalent" would be better advice, don't ya think? Just my HUMBLE OPINION - NO FLAMES PLEASE

-RUST-

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Rob K
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 12:10 Edited at: 8th Jan 2004 12:12
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VB6 and VB.NET are very different.

VB.NET is a far more professional package, but I think you'll find VB6 easier as a beginner. It is also very quick to produce applications in.

Personally I would start with VB6 - its a perfectly capable language (my IDE is written almost entirely in it), and then move to C++ when you feel ready for it.
VB6 is much closer to DarkBASIC's language than VB.NET - which encourages users to use a more C++-like approach to dealing with things.

Alternatively you can get Delphi 7 Personal Edition for very little, not only is it fully up-to-date, and as powerful as C++, but its pretty easy to learn. It doesn't require any runtime libs either, as Borland seem to have a far more sensible approach to GUI dev. than Microsoft.


BlueGUI Plugin:http://blue.robert-knight.net / BlueIDE http://blueide.sf.net-Free Replacement editor for DBPro
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Dave J
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 12:14
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Quote: "all things considered VB.NET blows away VB6 in every aspect - YES EVERY"


I'm not so sure about that, I mean, control arrays were pretty nice...


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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lagmaster
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 14:09
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i recommend delphi for programming.

anyone notice how delphi made apps get fewer bugs in them, yet vb,vc++ etc get all these runtime error and more deadly errors

the default dbpro editor is made in delphi. darkedit is made in delphi. my dark snippet pro is made in delphi. do you see any bugs in it?

i rest my case

lagmasteruk - http://www.lagmaster.net is alive! http://www.dbforums.co.uk/ - another db forum!

Dark Snippet Pro V9.2 is out!!
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Dave J
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 14:22
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Quote: "Yeah, and so was the memory leaks "

That explains it!

Quote: "the default dbpro editor is made in delphi. darkedit is made in delphi. my dark snippet pro is made in delphi. do you see any bugs in it? "

...I hope you're joking.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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DivW
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 14:26
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*Snigger*

Do you see any bugs in it? Hmm let me see...

I don't know how many bugs were found in the original release of DBP, because you sort of lose count. It's great they're all straightened out now, but there were massive bug problems when it came out. Please, Please, think before saying something like that.

-Dave

Your soul...it tastes like chicken

Official Website Coming Soon
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 18:37
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Exeat

Yeah I was pretty flipped out when I first realized there were no more control arrays. But every control is part of collection so it really doesn't matter much, you can still drill to a control with a For-Each-Next loop although it may be a slight bit more code than just simply dealing with a control array's index. And I gladly trade away control arrays to receive all of the other benefits that vb.net provides over vb6

-RUST-

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empty
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 19:35
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Whether or not to choose a .NET language (be it "VB.Net", "C#", "Delphi 8 for .Net") depends on your target audience.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
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heartbone
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 21:29
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Quote: "Well, if he does so, he will have a jump on his peers for sure, but is the jump in the right direction? Yeah, he'll know python, while most others don't, but is knowing python really that lucrative ? I look at the want adds all the time and I notice tons of ads for C++,VB,VB.NET,C#,Java,ASP,ASP.NET,html,SQL,Oracle,VBA,etc, not too much asking for Python. Don't get me wrong - It's great, and great to know, but in today's market...? Something a little more "prevalent" would be better advice, don't ya think? Just my HUMBLE OPINION - NO FLAMES PLEASE "


Since we are talking about at least 8 years in this case, I'd not place great emphasis on the money at this time. In 8 years all of your M$ acronyms will be obsolete, guarateed. Also it's not a good idea to mixup C++, Java, HTML, SQL in with a bunch of CORPORATE GARBAGE (Oracle excluded). You are confusing things on a very basic level.

Peace, the anti-Bush.
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JeKu
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 22:10
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Quote: "Also it's not a good idea to mixup C++, Java, HTML, SQL in with a bunch of CORPORATE GARBAGE (Oracle excluded). "


Perhaps I missed the gist of your post, but how is Oracle not corporate garbage? They charge upwards of a MILLION DOLLARS for their database software. I am Oracle certified, and I know that it is a hell of a lot cheaper and faster to develop anything other than government and bank databases using MySQL. Nothing beats free.

- JeKu


-- http://www.automatongames.com --
-- http://www.jeku.com --
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HZence
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Posted: 8th Jan 2004 23:05
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Hey did I ever show you guys the game I made with visual basic 6?

Here's the url: http://www.freewebs.com/swgames/T3-2K5.zip

lemme know what you think, heheheheh


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 9th Jan 2004 06:23
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Whoa! This is my first thread to get more than 6 replies....that is cool. From what I read here, it seems like Microsoft is pushing their .net deal really hard, and that investing in Visual Basic.net, and eventually C++ and C# .net wouldn't be too bad an idea. They only cost a bit more than DBP, and if VB.net is moving more toward an object oriented approach, then it would be worthwhile to learn a language that's fairly high level, but still includes object oriented features.
That's the idea that's showing itself to me. Anybody else interested in the conversation, please share your thoughts.

And thanks CattleRustler! I'll be back...in a day or so.....

Juvenile Industries
Current Project: The First Room (FPS)
Soon to come:An rts, and a snowball fight game
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heartbone
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Posted: 9th Jan 2004 08:01
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I'm sorry JeKu you are correct about Oracle. I started regretting that exclusion while in the shower earlier. I should not confuse proprietary for profit crap, with actual tools.

Peace, the anti-Bush.
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