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Geek Culture / monsters inc. -- how'd they do it?

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Arkheii
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 02:18
I watched monsters inc. on disney channel last night. So I was wondering, how'd they do the rooms and doors thing, when a door is opened, it connects to the room, but the door is floating in mid-air. I don't know anything about modelling, but perhaps some of you might know?

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 02:30
It's not about modelling the entire film like you would a game. It's about filming techniques. That's called a cut-scene shot. The monster opens the door, cut to the icy world, or the Paris world whatever. The camera is placed in a different environment. If you were doing this in a game, then you would place the camera inside a new room, with the door visible inside that new room, and the monsters positioned to be just leaving the doorway.

Pincho.

Ian T
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 03:04


Ohhhhkay...

Greenscreens and bluescreens are used in live action films for backdrops which will be digitally filled in with images. They're green or blue because that uniform color can be found and replaced easily by computers-- though why they don't use pinkscreens (a far rarer color) is beyond me.

Monsters Inc was entirely CG, so that wasn't used at all.

Though it would be interesting doing this in games (texture a plain with a camera), there could have been a million different ways they did it in the actual film. Chances are they just rendered the various scenes seperatly and placed them together with film editing software (probaly special designed). The people who do this do not come cheap-- millions upon millions of dollars go into CG production for a single movie .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 03:07
No.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Mattman
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 03:10
1/2 and 1/2

a
Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 05:45
They probably tracked the door frame in a movie effect program and then took image data from a rendered clip of the room in question.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 07:14
It's quite simple really, Maya is capable of something called Multiple Camera Tracking.
When you combine this with a program called Shake, you can export more than one 3D scene into the same instance for the render compile.

In this fashion you can put a plane that uses the doors as a camera track base and render that way
it's a very simplistic effect and if you want could explain howto recreate it in DBP.


P4-M 1.3Ghz | 512mb DDR PC1800 | GeForce FX 5600 Go! 53.03 | DirectX9.0b SDK | C-Media 8738/C3DX | Windows XP 2004
Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 11:00
Does Pixar have 12 GHz machines too??

http://www.dbspot.com/ - Free subdomain hosting. Unlimited space/transfer. It's nice, I like it, you should too!
Phaelax
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 15:29
All you need to know is that it was created in Maya by a company of talented artists that is no longer under Disney control. So now we should start seeing some really good movies from pixar.

"eureka" - Archimedes
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 16:18
I thought Finding Nemo was awesome ... but that's me.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 16:37
Quote: "I thought Finding Nemo was awesome ... but that's me."


What??? You're Nemo???


Pincho.

Damokles
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 16:55 Edited at: 24th Jan 2004 20:11
No, he wanted to say he's awesome

I prefer shrek (for the humour)

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
Chris K
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 17:49
Finding Nemo is soooooo much better than Shrek.

Quote: "Hey look - sharks!"


Hehehe

Ian T
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Posted: 24th Jan 2004 19:12
Shrek was certainly funnier, but Finding Nemo had fantastic graphics, no doubt.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Toby Quan
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 00:04
If you look very closely at the credits, you will see that the entire 3D rendering of Monsters Inc was done in BlitzBasic.





Or maybe that was something else...

I didn't like Nemo because I thought it was too much of a chick flick. However, I really think Toy Story 1 and 2 were amazingly well done - the story line never gets old, even after seeing it many many many many times!
Chris K
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 00:05
Quote: "If you look very closely at the credits, you will see that the entire 3D rendering of Monsters Inc was done in BlitzBasic."


No - but you will see Mike scuba diving and the fish tank fish swimming free

james1980
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 04:51
pixar has super strong computers and i read some where the video card cost $10,000+ and has a big render farm of 200 computers
if that is true OMG!!!!
Wik
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HZence
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 05:25
wtf mates ^^


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Ian T
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 05:50
Yeah, they have a series of very large clusters .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Ian T
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 05:50
Probaly all Macs!

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Phaelax
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 12:58 Edited at: 25th Jan 2004 13:01
not macs, SGI. Same chip manufacturer, motorola. But the new SGI machines I've heard are going to use the newest Intel chips.



Not sure what those guys are smoking.
But seach for "ATI FIRE GL X1" on [href]pricewatch.com[/href].

"eureka" - Archimedes
Arkheii
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 14:40
I thought the graphical quality of the new powerpuff girls episodes were pretty good, for a kid's cartoon. No, I do not like ppg, but hell I saw a giant metal ball rolling down the street, with sphere mapping on it I think. Shockwave or Swift3d, I suppose. But it was impressive.

Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 25th Jan 2004 15:05
we all kno the best 3d engine is "Massiv"- give maya the boot

www.tinnedhead.tk watch this space for the first ever calculator to show the working out. also look out for our first game- ww.exor-mk1.tk
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 00:38
"When you combine this with a program called Shake"

Hey, anyone interested that my Brother in law works at the company that makes that?









Guess not lol

Quikly Studio Pro. Soon. Honest.
BatVink
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 00:57
Quote: "though why they don't use pinkscreens (a far rarer color) is beyond me."


Pink is a combination of colours, green is one of the raw channels. It's also the easiest to extract technically.

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 01:25 Edited at: 26th Jan 2004 01:29
Quote: "Greenscreens and bluescreens are used in live action films for backdrops which will be digitally filled in with images."


This is a process called cromakeying. The key is the area to be remapped and cromanance being a component part of all colours that determines where it is on the colour spectrum. (cromanance, luminence, intensity etc).

The video underlay is not necessarily digital, infact the technique was invented long before computers where used to render anything in films using a device called a cromakey genlock.

Blue screen matting is the most common for playing back of live video underlay and is used because blue is at the week end of the televisual spectrum, because blue has the weekest cromanance value it creates less bleed over.

Green is more commonly used for computer rendered backdrops because it is in the middle of the televisual colour spectrum, green is stronger. Choosing red (which has the highest cromanance) may cause the CGI image to appear matted because of the croma strength of the colour.

Quote: "They're green or blue because that uniform color can be found and replaced easily by computers"


Hope i've cleared that up.

Quote: "though why they don't use pinkscreens (a far rarer color) is beyond me."


Pink would be a bad choice because it is a combination of red and blue, pink also tends to be pastel (else you would describe it as magenta, purple etc) and pastel colours have a high "intensity". High intensity have stronger bleed effects that would create a thick ghosting effect between the two layers of video because intensity tends to adjust in a smoothed effect across video, the individual red and blue components of pink would also cause mayhem in trying to cromokey it which would most likely cause a speckling effect of the two layers.

There is an algorythm to define what colours can be used for cromakeying, but I forget what it is exactly as I haven't done any for over a decade now.

You can use numerous shades of red green or blue with varying intensities, the most common choice though is a shade referred to as croma-blue which if you really really really want to know, I could look up for you from some old projects.

An additional problem that sometimes leads to the choice of green is the fashion popularity of the colour black and leathers. Picture a scene from Mission Impossible or Matrix and it is hard to imagine the characters not wearing something leather at some point, the problem with leather is under reflection it can often appear to have a blue-black shade, this can create holes in the overlay that show speckled backdrop video through Keanu Reaves trench coat...

There are two solutions to this, either buff the leather gently with brown polish so it reflects red, or use greenscreen matting instead.

Finally there are other forms of genlocking too, for example linear keying is used by teletext/ceefax services to overlay that blocky text on your screen. Linear genlocks allow for video overlay (rather than video underlay as in screen matting described above). In teletext genlocks they use colour 0,0,0 - the absense of colour - to key over the video, but this can be set to anything.

Linear keying typically results in higher quality results, however do not sabotage your television thinking you've got the ultimate industry genlock in there... That's a little 8 bit chip that has been in existence longer than your oldest ancestors grave, it can just about cope with the concept of inserting 11 lines of blocky text into each field in the display (there are two fields on the television screen - actually, dont get me started this subject you'll be here all night).

Quote: "I watched monsters inc. "


The second most powerful computer network in the world is owned by Industrial Light & Magic, a division of Lucus Arts. My understanding is that their highly specialised custom software are actually just Max plugins.

In the case of Monsters Inc it appears from above that Pixar use Maya.

Some other sudios use Lightwave (Babylon 5 for instance).

In short, we're using the same tools but to achieve a different effect. The computer networks they have are purely for rendering and a few machines to output the finished streams to video. My rig can do that too, just not to the same level of broadcast quality as the big boys.

They dont have any magic wands, or any highly customised tool that we dont have access too.

At the end of the day it just comes down to talent. They have it. And we pay them millions to watch the results.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 11:01
LTRO used Massiv. A few different versions of orc were model, the computer messed about with them, making limbs longer to giv the orc army some height difference between the troops, mixed n matched limbs from seperate models, and then gave each model and in some cases individual limb its own AI, so the fight movements were made by having AI control there arms, and there legs movement was altered in real time to match and bumps in the terrain, or downhill/uphill slopes. there was a bug in Massiv where orcs were running off over the hills, which they hadnt been programmed to do, but the team decided to keep it, as it was realistic that orcs would be running away from the battle. great system, bet it costs a bomb, i'll stick with my lightwave for now

www.tinnedhead.tk watch this space for the first ever calculator to show the working out. also look out for our first game- ww.exor-mk1.tk
Gery
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 20:26
i tough the monster inc is a big sh*t, a big big american pop-corn movie!

the story is stealed, and the graphix are sh*t.
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 20:36
yup...

www.tinnedhead.tk watch this space for the first ever calculator to show the working out. also look out for our first game- ww.exor-mk1.tk
Chris K
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 20:48
Quote: "the graphix are sh*t."


If you mean "photo realistic" then you're right.

the_winch
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 21:10 Edited at: 26th Jan 2004 21:11
Quote: " i tough the monster inc is a big sh*t, a big big american pop-corn movie!"


Too right, people should be watching the cinimatic masterpieces produced by the hungarian film industry.
Such as Es Immár itt vagyok, Elektra, avagy: Bevezetés a kapitalizmus politikai gazdaságtanába and A mi golyánk
Chris K
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Posted: 26th Jan 2004 21:13
Es Immár itt vagyok - one word: amazing.

You really get your money's worth with the 812 minute running time.

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