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Geek Culture / 'Real' modling

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Killswitch
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 21:32
There are alot of computer programs that allow you to create products on screen (i.e Pro Desktop) and some of them even allow you to 'build' a working product so that you can check that everythings alright/working.

Now with the advancing power of consols and PC's do you think the games industry will start using realisticly modelled guns/cars/planes ect that use all the moving parts/components their actuall real world counterparts do?

The you could smash up a real engine, have a real reload time on a wepaon, that fires real bullets! Everything would become so much more realistic!

So what do you think? Would this be a good idea, should technology advance to permit it?

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
HZence
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 21:43
Quote: "should technology advance to permit it?"


That's kind of out of our hands. If technology gets this far, then so be it.

Actually as developers, I think we might even aid in this process.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Ian T
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 21:49
I'm not sure what you mean by 'real' and 'build' and 'working'. There are already games that realistically portray the uses and side effects of weapons, planes, etc; take America's Army, a very realistic team based online FPS (it's free too).

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Slayer
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 21:52
There are rill bulits in games. How more rill can they get?
right now PCs are very slow. Later in the future people can
make games easier because PCs will be even faster.

I dont know how to spell
Chris K
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 21:54
Why don't you write properly?

Quote: "rill"


That's the same number of letters as "real". Pllllllllleeeeeeeaseee stop.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 22:04
chris, read slayer's sig

-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
Slayer
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 22:06 Edited at: 31st Jan 2004 22:07
It says it all.

I dont know how to spell
Ian T
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 22:27
Why don't you learn

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Killswitch
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 23:08
@Mouse
What I mean by 'real' or 'working' modles is, say, a car which has an engine that actually runs and turns the wheels instead of just having a 3d image that moves. Imagine the possiblities! I saw a program annoucement about a chemistery program, what if that code was applied to a game? Then we could have evapouration from puddles, then we could have rain! Then we could have 'real' simulated weather! Just think about the extent this could go to a whole simulated city could then be built!

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
Chris K
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 23:10 Edited at: 31st Jan 2004 23:10
There's a physics demo somewhere with a car that is actually driven by the wheels turning round, it began with a 't'

EDIT:

Tokamak

Slayer
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 23:15
Yah you could do that, but why. I mean if you do that you'll
get like 1 FPS in your game. Maybe in like 20 years when we
get bord of makeing games the same way all the time and when PCs
are alot better.

@mouse I never cared for spelling. like in school, I never got into
spelling. I could spell all the words I need. like in programing,
thats were im good at spelling. I could learn but why?
I like to post things on the forum sometimes to get my spelling
kiked in a little.

I dont know how to spell
Ian T
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Posted: 31st Jan 2004 23:23
Killswitch-- an entertaining idea but one that would require a physics model only a modern supercomputer could possibly handle. Cars aren't just a series of gears, they use internal combustion engines, brake fluid, gasoline, etc; realistically this would require a molecular level physics model to simulate, which is something pretty much impossible by today's standards. And that's just a car!

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
Killswitch
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Posted: 1st Feb 2004 00:46
I suppose thats true.. Still when the first computer was built someone said the world would only ever need five!

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Feb 2004 02:43
Well I suppose that some game models will have real working parts eventually, but I don't see that happening for many years. It is a bit pointless for most games though. A game is like a cartoon, and The Simpsons wouldn't need a real working gun, neither would Shrek. I suppose that there are some games that could benefit from real working parts, but they are not mainstream games.

Pincho.

DrakeX
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Posted: 1st Feb 2004 03:44
"I could learn but why?"

because until you do, you'll come across as an uneducated idiot. not to mention your posts are hard to read sometimes because of your terrible spelling. is it really THAT HARD to remember a four letter word like "real"?! not to mention the word "real" is typed about 5 times in the posts before yours; it's not like you couldn't have looked off of them!

killswitch - models, not modles. lol

athlon xp 2000+ | radeon 9500 pro 128mb | 512MB DDR | winXP pro | DBP 5.1b | B3D 1.85 | VC++ 6
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Dave J
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Posted: 1st Feb 2004 04:08
What's the point of making an engine work if you can't see it? We can simulate the car realistically without having to make the engine work exactly like a real engine.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Killswitch
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Posted: 1st Feb 2004 14:22
@DrakeX
Thanks! I was sure I was spelling Models wrong!

@Exeat
Well I guess the point would be to further the realism of a game - why include a picture of the Sun or the Moon when we can just add/subtract light? It just makes everything seem much more realistic, besides if there are 'real' working engines in the game then their could be accurate accceloration/braking/break downs (though maybe that would get a tad annyoing) you could also hot wire cars or cut someones breaks without just having a message that says you've done so.

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
las6
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2004 10:41
Well, think about it. How would you control that much information? The more detailed it gets, the harder it is to create anything.
as for playing, it would be impossible with current control methods. You'd need to use virtual goggles and gloves or even a suit. This makes gaming a whole lot different. And it's not all good.

as for adding/substracting light, That's WAYYYYY out of the range what's possible now. Liquids in a gas tank or such could be modelled somehow, but photons... don't think so.

Killswitch, you seem too enthusiasted of the idea to even think.

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MushroomHead
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2004 12:46 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2004 12:48
> Why don't you learn

Currect spelleeng is nut issenteeel es lung es zee prunuoonceeeshun is currect.
las6
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2004 14:11
actually it is, if you try to read that, you'll notice it. I had to read it couple times cos "lung" for example has a totally different meaning.

Besides, if English is your native language, I'd expect you to at least know how to spell words correctly. Even I don't make as many mistakes and typos.

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Killswitch
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2004 20:20
@las6
Quote: "Killswitch, you seem too enthusiasted of the idea to even think.
"

I do realise that this is beyond the capablities of todays equipment, that's why I'm saying that if technology were to permit it to happen do you think it'd be a good idea? I'm very sure I said that in my original post.

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
Neophyte
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2004 20:40
Not that I enjoy shooting your ideas down Killswitch, but I don't think that it would make any impact on gameplay. In fact, I think that the extent of the realism you're suggesting is a total waste.

How would the player know all of this realism is occuring? Say you modeled all of the internals of a gun and the physics behind them. How would that be any different to the player than now? Would they even know the difference? Why not just fake them like we do today and use the processing power for something else?

I think the question that I'm driving at is if it looks real why make it real? The appearence is what matters and if it looks real enough when its fake why go for an authentic implementation that would just suck up massive amounts of processing power that could be better spent on something else?

But to answer your original questions, No the games industry will not start using the kind of "realism" that you are talking about because it just doesn't contribute anything to the gameplay or make for good screenshots for advertisements(Would you be able to tell that a gun has working internals when all you can see is the outside of it). It just wouldn't be a good return on their investment to spend time implementing this stuff. Thats not to say that advances in the level of realism won't happen. They will, just not the kind that you are talking about.

As to whether technology should advance to permit it, why not? I don't seem the harm in trying.

Sorry to spoil another one of your ideas though.
Killswitch
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2004 20:58
Damnit I must come up with moer half-baked plans to be tested against foiling! I guess your right though, still I think it would be cool to know that all that stuff is happening, though I guess thinking that it was all happening is just as good.

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
UnderLord
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2004 21:01
Well lets look at it this way.

Right now making real working parts would only benefit things like oh i don't know virtual classes? like auto classes and or computer classes. Some day they will make a program that has real working parts and if you put the wrong part in the wrong place it will eaither blow up and or just not work =)

But for now you'll have to simulate real working parts that arnt really working.

In about 200 years you'll have the real working parts you want. or you'll have everything really working (in games/virtual classes/that sort of stuff)

Although it would be cool to run around a city like in GTA:VC and beable to pull out the wires in a street lamp at night to make it even darker =)

The search continues.
Killswitch
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2004 21:02
Ahh someone agrees with me! At last!

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~

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