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Geek Culture / Anyone mind telling me how I'm screwing this up?

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Ian T
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 17:20 Edited at: 26th Feb 2004 17:21
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Greetings ,

My computer's been out of order for several weeks now. I've been trying to diagnose the problem, get new parts where neccessary, etc etc. The need for a new motherboard, which was obvious after a new psu didn't fix the only problem, led to the need to a new case...

Well basically nothing happens when I push the power button. Before describing what I've been doing, I'll also note that I'm working well grounded, being gentle with all the pieces, storing them in electrostatic safe containers between use, etc etc.

I've been building my computer in the new case attempting to get it to work, and I haven't once been able to get it to the point where I can boot up and access the BIOS, or even get a beep code to inform me what's wrong. The old case dosen't work because its HDD LED, power LED, power switch, etc wires were all attached so as to only plug in to a motherboard arranged a certain way. Plus, only mini-size motherboards really fit in it .


I have two motherboards I'm using-- both VIA VT82C686Bs, both in perfect condition. The old one I was using before is dead (also a VIA model). I've been trying both, not both at the same time, to make that clear. I only have one heatsink I'm using, but two cpus, AMD 1ghz and 1.2ghz. I've wired the heatsink to the motherboard, naturally. I also have two sticks of RAM, pc-133 128mb and 256mb. I've been trying two video cards too-- an old TNT2 which I'm not certain operates , and a new Radeon 9500 Pro which is, again, in perfect condition. I'm working with a brand new Hercules 400w PSU, which from all appearances works perfectly.

Now, these parts, when wired correctly, should work. The heatsink is wired to the motherboard, the PSU is connected to the motherboard and floppy drive (and the 9500 Pro when I'm testing it), the floppy drive is connected by IDE cable to the motherboard, the video card rests in snugly, the motherboard is attached by 12 screws securely to the case, the RAM is snug locked in its sockets, and the PSU is secure in position. Power switch, power LED, hdd LED, and PC speaker wires from the case are all hooked up to the motherboard. Oh yes-- and I've been attaching the CPU properly too .

Oh, and just to tell you what I absolutely know for 100% certain works, I know the RAM and the Radeon video card are completely fine, as in having had them tested recently, in contrast to the other parts which are simply brand new from respectable companies.

I've checked what seems like a million build-your-own-computer guides online and I'm certain everything is connected properly, and I've been following all the appropriate steps. The case's power wire is connected properly to the button, so that appears to work.

And nothing happens when I push the button. No fans turn, the psu dosen't bat an eyelash, no beep codes appear, nothing shows on the monitor.

I've used every combination of parts I can fathom, being properly and incredibly careful every time I change something. Obviously I'm screwing this up somewhere. If anyone can help... please...

(Btw, if you're reading this, infinite thanks to the great person who's been helping me so far)

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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spooky
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 17:40
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Socket work? - plug something else into it
if yes, power cord work? use cable to power monitor or printer. maybe fuse blown.

I've only ever seen problems like this if either power supply blown or motherboard blown up (happened to a work pc few months ago)

Boo!
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Karlos
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 17:40
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I'd check the following - probably in this order now:

1. power switch connection - i've heard of some motherboard manuals being plain wrong with jumpers etc- check for a new manual on the motherboard website. Turn it around - Shouldn't make a difference but you never know.
2. No fans could point to a psu problem. There may be an internal fuse within the psu casing.
3. Motherboard/cpu - i had a motherboard die recently but had flashy lights telling me it was a cpu failure. Send it back under the warranty if you can.
4. Try building with just m/b, cpu, fan and seeing if that switches on at least - it may rule out the other components.

Hope something helps - it's hell when nothing makes sense.

If it ain't broke - try harder.
XP Pro - Radeon 9000 Mobility- P4 3.0ish
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Ian T
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 17:52
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Quote: "Socket work? - plug something else into it
if yes, power cord work? use cable to power monitor or printer. maybe fuse blown."


The psu is definatly getting power, it whirs a bit when I flip the jumper on; and I know the wall socket and cable are good, too, because I just switched the monitor/PC ones .

Quote: "1. power switch connection - i've heard of some motherboard manuals being plain wrong with jumpers etc- check for a new manual on the motherboard website. Turn it around - Shouldn't make a difference but you never know."


Curious, I'll try that.

Quote: "2. No fans could point to a psu problem. There may be an internal fuse within the psu casing."


Suppose it's possible, though it is brand new and does seem to get power correctly.

Quote: "3. Motherboard/cpu - i had a motherboard die recently but had flashy lights telling me it was a cpu failure. Send it back under the warranty if you can."


Two motherboards and two CPUs-- the motherboards have actually never booted once-- seem to imply that that isn't the problem.

Quote: "4. Try building with just m/b, cpu, fan and seeing if that switches on at least - it may rule out the other components."


Also a good idea.

Cheers.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 18:36
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humm, u dont have a multimeter do u? or a ocilascope?

Probably not, but if u do u might wonna check the output from the PSU, be sure u know what cable is what and that ur meter can take the voltage, DO NOT check the input voltage unless nessasary!!!

Another reason could be the the PSU is underspeced, not enough juice to run much.

Whats so good about living anywho?
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Mentor
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 20:02
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sounds like the PSU, get another to test or swap it into a working PC, most modern PSU`s are "smart" and after the initial "kick" when you turn em on, refuse to run if they detect what they consider an error condition, if it has a fault it may just have stayed clamped off, since some supplys need power being drawn from one range (12v for eg) in order to be able to hold the 5v constant or vice-versa, if the psu will power up another machine then you may have a Problem with the MOBO or you have a jumper in the wrong place (although the last two cards I bought where all software setup and self configuring apart from the resume on ring jumper), cheers

Mentor.

1: P4 hyperthreading 3ghz, 1gig mem, 2x160gig hd`s, ATI radeon 9800 pro gfx, 6 way surround sound, 2: AMD 1.2ghz, 512mb ram, FX5200 ultra gfx, stereo 16 bit soundblaster, ups.
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AluminumPork
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 20:22
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Hmm... this exact same thing happened to a few years ago. It was an Athlon XP based system that I had built. Whenever I pressed the power button the fans would whir up and then turn off right away. It would do this randomly. But most of the time it wouldn't turn on. I ended up taking the motherboard out and guess what, there was a screw that had gotten stuck directly under the processor. It must of have been shorting out something. I removed the screw and the computer worked perfect from there on. Lucky me.

I dought this is your problem, but if you haven't yet removed you motherboard then I'd take a look under there.

Also, try using a flat head screw driver and touch in sets of two around the connection jumpers. If you find the two power one (for the power switch) and complete the connection, it should do the same thing as the switch. Just something to try, that's usually how I turn on motherboard when I'm using them temporarily out of case.

Good luck.

P4 2.4Ghz HT, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 9600 128MB, 19" Viewsonic, 80GB HD

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Ian T
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 20:52
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Everyone-- thanks, I'll try those things and get back with a fresh report .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 21:10
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Quote: "Also, try using a flat head screw driver and touch in sets of two around the connection jumpers"


Whoa!! CAUTION: Recommended only for ADVANCED users!!

-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
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Ian T
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 21:42
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Don't worry, I made sure to get a screwdriver with a metal handle, I'll be fine.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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the_winch
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 21:49 Edited at: 26th Feb 2004 21:50
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I would remove everything from the motherboard appart from the speaker and power supply. Then use a metal object to short the power switch pins. The power supply fan should start and speaker should do some beeps.

You can test a power supply by shorting the green wire in the atx connecter with a black one. If you don't have a multi meter and the fan doesn't start you can connect some drives the the power supply to create enough load to start the fan.

Our civilization faces three great dangers. The first is destruction by a nuclear war, the second is being crippled with overpopulation and the third is the Age of Leisure.
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Ian T
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Posted: 26th Feb 2004 21:55
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I was looking for a way to test a power suppply thank you!

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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Ian T
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Posted: 27th Feb 2004 06:33
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Hi guys!

It turns out the wall socket in my room was really screwed up; I've fixed it now, and an LED on the motherboard lights up when the PSU jumper is on! That's the biggest sign of life in weeks. Anyways, pressing the power button does nothing, ditto to connecting the two tabs with a screwdriver. No fans, no beep codes. I'm not sure what this means but I'm trying to figure it out. Cheers.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 27th Feb 2004 06:56
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thats encouraging news, and with no bzzzt! sounds or whisps of smoke either. Nice.

-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 27th Feb 2004 10:22
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sounds weird, could the motherboard be damaged???

In what way was the wall plug not working? Also do u have any electronics experience???, for example if u had say a LED and a 680 ohm resistor u could test the 5V line from the PSU (i think 5V is bios/cpu.)

Whats so good about living anywho?
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 27th Feb 2004 17:40
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mouse it sounds like u've fried your entire system. you need to buy a new pc, and, of course, all your HDD data has been lost, and none of your games will ever work on any pc again.

http://www.tinnedhead.tk under re-construction.
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Damokles
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Posted: 27th Feb 2004 17:43
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None of his games ?


I mean, if anyone is on a big project, he makes at least one backup

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
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Ian T
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Posted: 27th Feb 2004 18:56
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@ Froogle.

Damokles-> You'd think .

Martyn-> Fairly certain not.

There's an update... I wired the power button correctly, and now it makes a kind of bzzzt sound when i press it-- for about 0.6 seconds. Not an electric fizz, not a whirring fan, it sounds more mechanicaly generated. Nothing happens when I press it again until I remove and restore the system's power. The LED still lights up. About 0.2 seconds after the sound, my video card fan makes about a half turn. I replaced it with my TNT2 (I thought my v/c might be bad) but other than that there is no fan on it, there's no apparent change. I still get no beep codes. No acrid stench from the psu or anything either. I've tried this with two PSUs now, both of which apparently work. Both CPUs also. Is it possible it just can't get enough power from my wall socket...? I should probaly bring the system downstairs and see...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 27th Feb 2004 19:23
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after you found the wall socket was messed up, you should have relocated the machine straight away, Not to "squeeze shoes".

-RUST-
"What the... Mooooooooooo!"
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Ian T
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Posted: 27th Feb 2004 20:01
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As I said above, it seems to be fixed now. And it worked fine with my computer before. For over a year.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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