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Newcomers DBPro Corner / DOGA L seriesQ

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Spaceman Spiff
20
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Joined: 27th Jan 2004
Location: Smacking my head on your keyboard.
Posted: 13th Mar 2004 07:30
Ok I need some one who has bought L2 to answer this.In the help file with L1 under the section about ordering L2, it says it costs 49.00$ on the web site it says that L2 costs 20.00$ and that after you have L2 L3 is 20.00$ cheaper wich one is right? (I think the web site is correct but just wanted to make sure) Thank in advance to whoever answers.
zircher
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 13th Mar 2004 09:34
The update pricing which registers L2 and enables rendering of AVI movies is $20. L3 is $40, but if you have already registered L2 it is only $20.

The unregistered versions of L2 and L3 are pretty much fully functional for game developers. You only need to register if you want to make cut scene animation or want to show your support for Team DoGA.
--
TAZ

Spaceman Spiff
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Jan 2004
Location: Smacking my head on your keyboard.
Posted: 14th Mar 2004 06:08
Thanks Zircher! orry for the stupid NooB Q .
zircher
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 14th Mar 2004 06:43
No problem, that's why I wear the unofficial English speaking DoGA guru hat.
--
TAZ

Spaceman Spiff
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Jan 2004
Location: Smacking my head on your keyboard.
Posted: 15th Mar 2004 12:39
OOOO! Can I have one?LOL Thanks again
zircher
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 15th Mar 2004 17:45 Edited at: 16th Mar 2004 17:16
No one can give you the guru hat, you have to earn it.

Having said that, I know a lot about DoGA and how to manage part libraries, create custom textures and parts, insteresting effects and such. Feel free to pick my brain when you have a DoGA or Metasequoia related question.
--
TAZ

razorblade
21
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Joined: 10th Feb 2003
Location:
Posted: 16th Mar 2004 15:24
since your the doga guru how would you adjust the shading type for each face ie. gourad and then add pixel shaders.

also texturing aint to hard.
answer all this and i will believe you are good at it.

and ive had it for 1 week and i know the answer.

mooba!
zircher
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 16th Mar 2004 17:54
The easiest way to change shading is to fire up the rendopt.exe program. This is a configuration utility for Render Options.

Setting the shading model between Gouraud and Phong is just one of the options in the handy program. There are nice levels of anti-aliasing, the ability to customize the high emission glow radius, options for shading method, soft shadows, and image blurring. There are else options for some special rendering modes such as wire frame (different from the one available in the render menu) and outputting the render as a heightfield (handy for making bump maps and other game related functions.)

Pixel shaders is a trick question. DoGA was originally targeted for DirectX 5.0 and now requires DirectX 7.0. It has no true shader functions as in the ability to use external shader files. That is also revealed in its external animation system which has key frames but no support for mesh deformation (ala DirectX 8.0.)

Having said that, DoGA can mimic a number of special effects what you associate with shaders. First off, DoGA has support for animated textures so UV scrolling can be faked as well as classic looping animation such as lava, water, smoke, and clouds. You can even pull off some clever caustics hacks since animated textures can be used with specularity, transparency, bump maps, and glow masks.

The cell effects in L3 are also very configurable. You can set the angle thresholds for the various shades, the base shading colors use, outline color and thickness, you can also choose sharp or graded boundries and select the size of the transitions. This is handy in distingushing between manga and anime. Manga tends to have sharp bounds due to the use of zip tones that are usually cut and placed. Where anime (and some manga) use air brushes to create the transition from one shade to the next.

Note, these are all render effects and many will not export to .X. I like to pre-render complex textures to a flat panel and then load that cooked texture in and use that for DoGA when I know that I'll be exporting to .X.

Does that cover it well enough or did I miss something? I don't use shaders that often due to the low tech machines that I have. So, some of my knowledge is second hand in nature.
--
TAZ

Cyberflame
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2003
Location: Im not sure....
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 00:32
@ razorblade
YOU JUST GOT OWNED!!!

DANGIT NEO, YOU CHANGED THE CODE AND NOW THE MATRIX WONT TEXTURE RIGHT.
Spaceman Spiff
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Jan 2004
Location: Smacking my head on your keyboard.
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 00:56
Quote: "The easiest way to change shading is to fire up the rendopt.exe program. This is a configuration utility for Render Options.

Setting the shading model between Gouraud and Phong is just one of the options in the handy program. There are nice levels of anti-aliasing, the ability to customize the high emission glow radius, options for shading method, soft shadows, and image blurring. There are else options for some special rendering modes such as wire frame (different from the one available in the render menu) and outputting the render as a heightfield (handy for making bump maps and other game related functions.)

Pixel shaders is a trick question. DoGA was originally targeted for DirectX 5.0 and now requires DirectX 7.0. It has no true shader functions as in the ability to use external shader files. That is also revealed in its external animation system which has key frames but no support for mesh deformation (ala DirectX 8.0.)

Having said that, DoGA can mimic a number of special effects what you associate with shaders. First off, DoGA has support for animated textures so UV scrolling can be faked as well as classic looping animation such as lava, water, smoke, and clouds. You can even pull off some clever caustics hacks since animated textures can be used with specularity, transparency, bump maps, and glow masks.

The cell effects in L3 are also very configurable. You can set the angle thresholds for the various shades, the base shading colors use, outline color and thickness, you can also choose sharp or graded boundries and select the size of the transitions. This is handy in distingushing between manga and anime. Manga tends to have sharp bounds due to the use of zip tones that are usually cut and placed. Where anime (and some manga) use air brushes to create the transition from one shade to the next.

Note, these are all render effects and many will not export to .X. I like to pre-render complex textures to a flat panel and then load that cooked texture in and use that for DoGA when I know that I'll be exporting to .X.

Does that cover it well enough or did I miss something? I don't use shaders that often due to the low tech machines that I have. So, some of my knowledge is second hand in nature.
"





HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!! *He Says as he looks at something resembleing his 8th grade book report* wwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

So I guess you proved your point, speaking of witch where can I find English Tutorials for metaseqoia? Are there any?
zircher
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 03:26 Edited at: 18th Mar 2004 07:13
Thanks, but no ownage was intended. Team DoGA's charter is to help people learn computer graphics in easy steps and I enjoy helping people to reach those goals.

I'm researching what I can about Meta tutorials and I'll hopefully get back to you all later tonight.
--
TAZ

zircher
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 07:13
Ok, here's an interesting 'cheat' that I've used in the past. I've copied the Japanese help files for Metasequoia LE to the web. You can now use Babelfish to set up a translation of the html files to English.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fire-on-the-suns.com/meta/help

Sorry, that this is not an active link, but the forum's HREF tag does not like the some of the characters I think. You'll have to cut-n-paste it to your address bar. This should give a good working start to Metasequoia. After a few hours of playing with it you should have a good feel for the program.
--
TAZ

Cyberflame
21
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Sep 2003
Location: Im not sure....
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 16:01
GAH! I just realized the word "babelfish" is from the hithikers guide to the galaxy.

DANGIT NEO, YOU CHANGED THE CODE AND NOW THE MATRIX WONT TEXTURE RIGHT.
zircher
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 16:43 Edited at: 18th Mar 2004 16:43
I get a small kick out of their talking fish icon. One of the limitations with web translation is that it (of course) can not translate images. I'm going to try and move all the L3 help files to the web for a similar treatment. They are in PDFs so it is a more labor intensive process. After all the text is moved over, I'll start doing screen captures of the images so that you all can get the English language menus as well.

I don't know if I'll be able to get it done before my game design class in April, but I'll give it a try.
--
TAZ

Spaceman Spiff
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Jan 2004
Location: Smacking my head on your keyboard.
Posted: 19th Mar 2004 06:26
THX!

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