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3 Dimensional Chat / Sorry really need to ask this

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vampyre
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 03:06
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Can I make planets in Geoscape 3D as I want Mojoworld Editor and I will buy Mojoworld editor, but I want something that I can construct a planet in, if not can some help me how to make a terrain editor so it can make planets out 3D object buy sticking them together and scaling them large or small? I know I asked it on another forum, but I think it was the wrong forum.
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UnderLord
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 05:25 Edited at: 14th Mar 2004 05:26
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3ds max 5 will make planets nicely all you need to know is how to make a nice sphere and a texture for it

[edit]

and almost anything that will make a sphere and let you texture it.

The search continues.

Current project - A space game
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zircher
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 06:42
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Does Mojoworld export to 3DS or .X format? Those are the most likely formats that Dark Basic can handle.
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vampyre
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 16:38
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Yes apparently it can export to both formats but it is a little bit out of my budget at the moment, 3D MAX 5 seems to me too expsensive still that might be the only option as I want to use Bryce 5 to actually construct a planet rather than just use Mojoworld exclusively
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zircher
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 18:50
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I haven't played with the Bryce series, is it a rendering program like Teragen? What formats does it export/
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Tapewormz
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 22:51
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So you want to create a 3d sphere and wrap an image around it and you want to be able to zoom into it from really far away? Like zoom in so close that you can see a person standing there?

I'd suggest using a 3d sphere with an image map, and then as you're zooming use a transition like clouds or something to switch from a 3d sphere object to a matrix.
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zircher
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Posted: 15th Mar 2004 07:30
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Tapewormz has a good point, presenting game graphics is a lot like a magic show. You can do a lot with smoke and mirrors. It is almost physically impossible to model a planet and then LOD it back out to a sphere from space. You have to give the illusion of that. This might be where a cut scene is more effective than a simulation.
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vampyre
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Posted: 17th Mar 2004 02:12
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Yeah I know this but I want a sphere I want to see if it is possible and if it works , after all MojoWorld Editor has proven that you can LOD it from a spatial point of view, check their website and download the demo zircher, also I think if you can have a big enough sphere and scale down the models small enough I think it could lead to a lot more freer and interesting games, especially the game I whish to do which would have space and atmospeheric flight plus ground vehicle combat all in the first person,


For Example you could set up lots of bases on one planet or moon and have a main base and the A.I in the single player offline or human player enemy online could attack your bases simutaniusly, a. you could still set a base of operations secretly on another side of the planet and build up your forces from there, asit is you would need loads of cutscens and tricks to do that but I wish to give gamers an actual experience of doing this in real time.

Plus I want my game to be one of the first to be able to have actual planets in a game, I know of another game which will be using Mojoworld Editor 's planets and wit will be out this year, it will be a MMPORG and if you check out the MojoWorld Editor site you will find out more details of the game as it has links to it.

I have had this idea though for a long time and it would be good to have that I think, saves having to work out "edge of the world" barriers after all, in the real world there are no edges and believe that the world was flat went out even in the time it was it.

So why should cyberworlds be flat?
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vampyre
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Posted: 17th Mar 2004 02:13
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Thanks Underlord I have a copy of 3D Max 5 so I will try it out
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zircher
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Posted: 18th Mar 2004 22:16
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[Pulling out the mighty hagfish of smiting, just in case...]

Ok, Mojoworld is a different animal from normal 3D modelling. It uses a proprietary fractal generation system to create its on-the-fly geometry and to that you can add conventional models. There literally is no planet to model. It is all created on the fly in a custom built render engine with a seed value that you create. You can add a lot to it, but try to add the population of China or every building in New York City and see what happens.

Can something like that be done in DBP? Yes, but you would have to write your own fractal program to deform a mesh and apply the appropriate colors to the verts. Can it be done in real time, in basic? I don't know. I wrote a random mesh utility a few moons back and it created 60-70 completely random meshes per second on even my lame machine. It would take some very clever coding to base that off of a fractal seed value, but I believe it could be done.

You can find fractal tutorials on the web. I'll bet that 90% of them are in C or C++. You'd need to take that code and port it to DBP and then apply it. That's not an enviable programming task.
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Gaming trivia: This is not a new idea, Lucas Arts came out with Rescue on Fractalus twenty years ago.

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vampyre
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Posted: 21st Mar 2004 14:39
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Rescue on Fractulus? really ? The game I first heard about having planets was Lander, Lander also was supposed have planets as well.

I was think more of assembling a planet rather than create the planet from a seed value, I can see some of the pitfalls and I was wondering why not build a planet Bryce style than have it make random meshes in real time ? Because I have had the demo of Mojoworld I tried it and I think it is a little difficult to use.

I would love to know how exactly I could built a Bryce control type level edotor or planet assemlber so you can make a mountain or a hill and put it on a textured sphere, you could duplicate the planet or even raise some of the planet's ground and make canyons, valley's e.t.c then you can port your objects and code to the level editor, or not as I would like it really to be a planet builder If anyone can help, please get in touch
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zircher
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2004 00:13
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The difference can be brutal. Mojo World sacrifices CPU speed to save on data size. If you were to build mesh objects in .X or use a matrix editor. You gain speed, but consume a lot more data (as in millions and millions of data points.) Building a mesh editor in DBP is not that difficult. Like I said earlier, I built that random mesh demo. You can change that into a mesh editor simply by adding building and digging tools, maybe including some special effects like sharpness and smoothness with your tools as well as a vert painting option or an altitude based color bar.

Search for Wilbur, it does what you want. But, you'll have to figure out how to save the data in a 3D format like DXF or learn to read in height maps and edit a mesh in DB that way.

It's not a beginner's task, but it is feasible.
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vampyre
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Posted: 25th Mar 2004 05:15 Edited at: 25th Mar 2004 05:20
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Thank Zircher, by the way, Bryce can export terrains in 3D and you can import 3D Moodels using X. and .3DS format,s best you buy from Bryce 4 upwards unless you have a Mac for Bryce 2.0 can't export 3D Terrain. The terrain exports for 4 and 5 are limited in that you can 0only export a few landscape shapes out unfortunaltely.

I will look out for the random mesh demo.
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