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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Using MS XML DLL?

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MicroMan
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Posted: 14th Mar 2004 23:57
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Silly question perhaps, but has anyone tried to use MS XLM DLL v4 with DBP? Can it be done?

I'm thinking that an XML file could be a neat thing to save noncritical data with, but I'm not used to using DLLs with DBP.

But then, if anyone has used this particular dll, what's your opinion of my notion?

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adr
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Posted: 15th Mar 2004 11:47
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If you look in Program Announcements, Bulleyes made an XML reader plugin for DBP.

Personally, I can't see the point in XML - it's mis-used in 90% of the situations. If you *know* the structure of the data (which for savegames and game configurations should be true), then why use a self-describing notation? It's just a pointless extra overhead ...

... and the rest is f-l-y
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Bulleyes
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Posted: 15th Mar 2004 13:41
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Well, the easiest way I can answer question is by another question...

"Why do you need INI file or external file to store your game data?"

I just like XML because it provide a very good and neat framework to describe game data. Secondly, because it is a text file, I can edit it easily without the real need of a level editor. XML itself can't be self-describing, the programmers/designers need to create a specfication for the data to be described.

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
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IanM
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Posted: 15th Mar 2004 14:18
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There is nothing wrong with XML, except that maybe some people (like me ) think it's a little verbose ... although I'd consider using it for communicating file formats to outside sources (such as game modders).

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins, source and the Interface library for Visual C++ 6, .NET and now for Dev-C++ http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
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adr
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Posted: 15th Mar 2004 15:43
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"XML itself can't be self-describing"

If you think about it, HTML (and therefore to the same extent, XML) is self describing. The content of an HTML document isn't really known before parsing, but with savegames, you should know what's coming.

... and the rest is f-l-y
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Bulleyes
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Posted: 15th Mar 2004 16:39 Edited at: 15th Mar 2004 16:42
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Yes, that's because HTML (or XHTML to be precise, since HTML is not an XML) is an XML with predefined Grammar and DTD. XML itself is freeform, and meaningless, unless you define it yourself. That's the power of it at the same time.

Besides that, XML has a lot of supporting standard tool for parsing, transformation, syntax checking, etc. It is those open standards of these tools that make XML even more flexible and widely accepted.

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
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adr
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Posted: 15th Mar 2004 19:08 Edited at: 15th Mar 2004 19:08
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I'm determined not to sound bitchy about this, but here goes :: spits out dummy ::

Like I said originally, around 90% of applications mis-use XML - not 100%. I can see that under certain circumstances, XML is the best choice, but I've found that XML implementations are still going through a bit of a craze. It's a buzzword - like Java, SOAP, OOP, ASP and High Availability. Under certain circumstances, they are the right tool. But for the majority of cases, these technologies are popularised by high-powered types who are only buying into such a technology because it's the latest thing.

For something like storing a savegame, don't you think a 2MB parser dll is a little overboard?

... and the rest is f-l-y
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MicroMan
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Posted: 16th Mar 2004 02:19
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The Sims, I believe, use XML to save some of their game data. Perhaps not necessarily savegames. I'd have to install the Sims and have a look before I could say for certain.

But I could see a use for describing game "metadata", if you will. For instance, what if you'd like so save a high score table for an online game? I think that could be a situation where XML would be very handy. Or if you'd like to save a player inventory in a RPG game.

Now MS XML DLL is an activeX dll, so I guess it's out. I'll have a look at Bullseye's thing.

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adr
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Posted: 16th Mar 2004 13:20
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Quote: "what if you'd like so save a high score table for an online game"

Or even more simply, a simple flat text file.

You could just rewrite it out with each update.
Quote: "if you'd like to save a player inventory in a RPG game"

Perhaps - if the inventory could be complex... You've just got me thinking - XML could probably be used in RPGs to define spell behaviour. I can't stand RPGs personally, but I imagine that if spells didn't behave in a linear manner (spell 1 is of strength x and uses element y) then XML would be quite good. You could develop arbitrarily complex behaviours using XML to define stuff like that ...

Wow... a legitimate use

Bulleyes > don't get me wrong by the way - although I think XML is largely overused, I still think your plugin is a fantastic development to help further DBP.

... and the rest is f-l-y
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Bulleyes
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Posted: 16th Mar 2004 13:28
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Quote: "don't get me wrong by the way - although I think XML is largely overused, I still think your plugin is a fantastic development to help further DBP."



Not at all! I always enjoy debating.

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
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empty
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Posted: 16th Mar 2004 18:42
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Quote: "Now MS XML DLL is an activeX dll, so I guess it's out."


Not quite:
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=27726&b=8

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
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MicroMan
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Posted: 16th Mar 2004 19:03 Edited at: 16th Mar 2004 19:04
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@Empty

Thanks. But there was nothing at the site that was linked to in the post. Just a blank page with some banners.

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empty
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Posted: 16th Mar 2004 19:12 Edited at: 17th Mar 2004 01:11
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Click on the text that says
---------------Link--------------------------

(should have named it "download".

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
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