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Geek Culture / Touting Pascal

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MicroMan
21
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Joined: 19th Aug 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: 17th Mar 2004 01:42 Edited at: 17th Mar 2004 01:44
Everybody's busy touting either VB6, VB.Net or C/C++. I've been looking into Pascal tools tonight, so I guess I should pick up the Pascal/Delphi banner.

Now Delphi's even got a .Net variant (hear that CattleRustler ). Anyway, there's a good free Object Pascal compiler that you all probably already know about, but here it is:

Since DBP can't use .Net these are good compilers to use if you want to craft your own DLLs, but don't want to strain your brain learning C/C++. Mind you, Pascal is somewhere between VB and C. It's NOT as easy as VB and there's a steeper learning curve. However, Pascal code is fairly easy to read, and being a compact language it doesn't take long to learn the actual language.

However you will have to grapple with the full force of OOP: polymorphism, classes, and the lot.

Here's an open source compiler.
http://www.freepascal.org/

Here's Borland's Delphi 6 variant of Object Pascal, and it's availible as a free Personal edition.
http://www.borland.com/products/downloads/download_delphi.html

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They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
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CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
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Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 17th Mar 2004 03:35
I hear ya


"What the... Moooooooo!"
Dave J
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Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 17th Mar 2004 12:00
Does Delphi's floating interface bother anyone else? It reminds me of VB3 *yuk*


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 17th Mar 2004 12:12
I'm sure you get used to like - lot like the changes in Visual Studio .Net


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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Location: Metropia
Posted: 17th Mar 2004 13:05
Not sure why you're looking into Pascal, but have fun. My old pascal programs from highschool won't run on today's computers. The graphics don't like the new cards. And don't forget, pascal calls them procedures instead of functions.

"eureka" - Archimedes
empty
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 17th Mar 2004 13:28 Edited at: 17th Mar 2004 13:33
@Phaelax:
Quote: "Not sure why you're looking into Pascal, but have fun. My old pascal programs from highschool won't run on today's computers. The graphics don't like the new cards."

Don't worry, Delphi as well as freepascal, are highly optimised modern compilers that produce fast and stable executables. There are header translations for DirectX and OpenGL, so you can do anything that C++ can do.


Quote: " And don't forget, pascal calls them procedures instead of functions."

There are procedures and functions in Pascal. Procedures are similar to VB's Subs, ie. they are functions that don't return anything.


On a side note:
With my soon to be released plugin (written in Delphi!), you can use VB(.Net) DLLs in DBpro, too.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
MicroMan
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: 17th Mar 2004 14:47
Besides, there's a benefit to Pascal/Delphi. It's a visual environment just like VB/VB.Net, but it doesn't realy that much on ActiveX. Rather their components are often made up of code libraries, which means they work directly on Windows API or Linux.

So, without a lot of fuss later you can write a DLL that handle everything in for instance Windows Sockets (with the internet direct - Indy - libraries) and then plop a DLL into your DBP game.

Right now, having a bit of spare time, I'm looking into making DLLs based on Indy. You could, conceivably, without too much fuss make DLLs that handle everything from ICMP to Gopher to NNTP and use it in a DBP project. I don't really see the point of doing so, but you COULD do it.

And, last but not least, the Delphi compiler is faaaast.

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
-----
Eddie Gordo
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 01:24
hmm...anyone know where i can find tutorials on creating DLLs in Pascal, im curious now ...cool its also cross platform, i've never seriously looked at pascal...

Do not EVER question my authority, respect me, i've ridden on the hood of a minivan going 95mph!...then when the driver stoped i jumped on the back...
M00NSHiNE
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Location: England, UK
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 12:21
Hmmm, before I discovered DB, I was going to consider learning Turbo Pascal. Well now I feel that Ive grasped at least the basics of the BASIC language and want to try something that will let me expand on DB by making DLL's and the like. C++ looks like its too difficult and I dont have the time to put in for it. VB isnt challenging enough as its another BASIC. Therefore I want to learn Pascal or Delphi. Which do you recommend?

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Sticking to a project idea for once
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Location: At home
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 13:53
Pascal is a good language to start if your undecided whether programming is for you or not, although I would probably start with C.

The main problem with Pascal is that it can be cumbersome at times, and itsn't well attunded to game-making - However I did do a Space Invaders game in TP3 for a college assignment though...


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Rob K
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 14:04
The Delphi interface may appear a little intimidating at first, but once you get into it you'll find that its much better than IDE98 (The Visual Basic 6 / Visual C++ 6 IDE). Certainly for Form design, its highly intuitive. Compared with VS.NET - mixed results. For Form design I'd still rate Delphi top, but VS.NET's code editing window is far superior in many respects.

In terms of difficulty, Pascal is a good half-way between BASIC and C++. Its actually quite similar to C++ if you look very closely, but its easier for beginners. Its also almost as powerful as C++, with full classes support, pointers etc.

To give an example:

VB:


Pascal:


C++



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M00NSHiNE
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Location: England, UK
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 15:34 Edited at: 18th Mar 2004 15:35
Well seeing as Delphi is based on pascal I might give that a go...hmmm, I really cant decide. Are there any winning advantages of one over the other?

plus I cant really afford to shell out a few hundred quid, which is cheaper?

No doubt Id mainly develop apps or plugins.

Currently thinking of a new company name
Sticking to a project idea for once
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th Mar 2004 16:35
C Pros:
Fast
Low-level access

C Cons:
You have to be very careful about what you do, especially to memory - easy to crash your program.
Syntax takes a bit of getting used to.

Pascal Pros:
Easy to understand
Fair bit of protection built in

Pascal Cons:
Not really suitable for fast programs - can be slowish...
Can be long-winded.


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empty
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Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 18th Mar 2004 18:48
Quote: "Not really suitable for fast programs - can be slowish..."

Well that depends on how you program (Object-) Pascal and on the actual compiler (TP3 isn't Pascal's state of the art anymore ).

Programmingwise you can gain speed in Pascal program if you heavily use pointers, but that's not very common in the Pascal world.

As for compilers, Delphi is the most complete Pascal dev tool out there, but not the fastest. The latest version of Freepascal beats Delphi in certain areas. Other compilers like Vector Pascal are extremely fast but lack other important features.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.

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