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Geek Culture / Another BASIC

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M00NSHiNE
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Location: England, UK
Posted: 31st Mar 2004 14:30
Hey everybody. I want to learn another BASIC so I can produce non- DX programs. Which is the best? PureBasic looks good but I cant find it anywhere in pounds. Are there any other good choices (which will be useful paired with DBPro?)

Cheers

Currently thinking of a new company name
Sticking to a project idea for once
Damokles
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Location: Belgium
Posted: 31st Mar 2004 14:33
What about QBASIC ?

- Stand clear of the closing doors -
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 14:40
Haha, you wont fool me

Currently thinking of a new company name
Sticking to a project idea for once
Dave J
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 15:14
There's also Visual Basic and Delphi (which is kinda-basic)


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
MicroMan
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 15:30 Edited at: 31st Mar 2004 15:31
Delphi isn't "kind of" basic anything. It's Pascal!

Actually, you can get fooled by Delphi since it looks so similar to Basic, but there is a definite learning curve with Delphi. Do you need the added complexity of OOP: ie inheritance, classes, polymnorphism, etc in addition to the language specific quirks in Pascal?

If you want to make apps simply then I recommend VB6 - if you can still get a hold of it. VB.Net is getting closer to Pascal and the same question I put about delphi applies to VB.net. Do you need the added complexities?

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
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Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 31st Mar 2004 15:43
Personally I like VB4 because it's small and neat and makes nice little .exe's with nice little runtimes - VB6 needs huge runtimes in comparison. I use VB4 a lot at work for making sundry applications, like a user friendly backup system or a custom file selector.

But it all depends on what you want to do with it. If you want to use web controls or add fancy stuff like mp3 playback then VB4 is a little lacking.

Delphi is a nice language for applications, but like Microman says, it would take more learning than an alternative BASIC. PureBasic can be used for quite a lot - even making .dll's - but it's quite a complex incarnation of basic compared to DB.

Why not tell us what sort of applications you'd like to be making.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Dave J
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 15:47
VB6 only needs the OCX files you included, usually just mscomtl32.ocx which is approx 300kb. This means you don't need to include the runtimes but only the controls you used.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 17:17
Pure Basic > VB in my personal opinion. For a start it has been produced by an independant (French) team rather than as an all singing all dancing laviathon by an industrial collossus.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 17:48
VB.NET, end of story

(it's like deja vu all over again)




Home of the VB.NET Class Builder Utility - Demo available now!
Dazzag
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Location: Cyprus
Posted: 31st Mar 2004 19:43
Use eVb 3.0 (Embedded VB). Is totally free, has it's own IDE, and works for PDAs and smartphones. And there is even proper books on Amazon for developers. Annoyingly isn't supported by MS anymore, is only interpretted, and hasn't got the full VB functionality (more like vbScript). But is cool! And free!

See the PDA thread for the download link.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
TheAbomb12
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Location: Amist the blue skies...
Posted: 31st Mar 2004 19:52
Quote: "For a start it has been produced by an independant (French) team rather than as an all singing all dancing laviathon by an industrial collossus."


Why does that matter? Does it make that much of a difference over the actuall quality of a program?

Amist the Blue Skies...
TKF15H
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Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posted: 31st Mar 2004 20:03 Edited at: 31st Mar 2004 20:14
I just installed HBasic on my PC. It's supposed to be an imitation of
VB for Linux. The interface looks pretty nice, and so do the programs
it makes. It's free and open-source. I don't know if there's a Windows port. Took quite a while to compile.

Can I see a demo now?
Dazzag
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 20:12
Quote: "Quote: "For a start it has been produced by an independant (French) team rather than as an all singing all dancing laviathon by an industrial collossus."

Why does that matter? Does it make that much of a difference over the actuall quality of a program?"

Hmm, just noticed that. Quite. Personally I would rather have the large company behind it. To invest a lot of effort into a language that might die at any point is a bit of a git. And to use a language that has a really decent chance of getting a job at the end of it is quite nice too.

Doesn't mean I like MS though. I don't much. But at least I can almost bet my life that, say, VB jobs will be available in 20 years time. Not many things can say that.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
MicroMan
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 22:25
Quote: "
VB.NET, end of story

(it's like deja vu all over again)
"


Oh my. You don't say? WHo would have thought you'd recommend VB.Net.

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
-----
CattleRustler
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Posted: 31st Mar 2004 23:24




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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 00:07
Hmm, lots of replies. Really, theres not any specific thing I want to do other than:

1. Broaden my coding knowledge ever so slightly
2. Have the ability to produce proper windows-based apps without needing a super top spec PC to run them

Currently thinking of a new company name
Sticking to a project idea for once
TKF15H
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 00:12
Or you could try Euphoria. It's not really one of the BASIC family,
but it's quite easy to learn and it doesn't require a "super top spec"
PC to run.

Can I see a demo now?
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 00:43
VB

CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 03:01
.NET pincho meant



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indi
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 03:24
Why not use this opportunity to learn C/C++ at this moment in time.


M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 10:58
C++ was very briefly considered, but as an A level student I have neither the time nor the money for C++.

Currently thinking of a new company name
Sticking to a project idea for once
Shadow
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 11:02
What is this '.NET' business anyway?
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 12:40
I think its some kind of VB variant which CattleRustler would die for.

Currently thinking of a new company name
Sticking to a project idea for once
Van B
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 13:51
.NET is the new M$ ploy to get us to upgrade our copies of VC++, VB, etc - sorta like a new IDE and platform to replace VB6 and VC++.

Personally I've never bothered with it, happy enough with VB4/6 - upgrading to .NET is probably akin to upgrading Office - seems like a good idea until you end up screwing your files or find that M$ has taken out something that you desperately need (Foxpro support in Access2000 anyone?).
If you want a neat little language that does'nt care too much about system specs or windows versions then I re-iterate my recommendation of VB4 or VB6 - .NET is not really for the casual hobbyist.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 13:55
Quote: "Personally I would rather have the large company behind it."


Build something from 3 million pieces, then build something to do the same task from 200 pieces. Which is most likely to break first?

Put too many people onto a software project and it soon turns into a series of "engines" with linking code, it becomes a mess, and hardly appropriate for a programming language.

An independant is far more likely to develop a sophisticated stream lined product with powerful features rather than just a list of marketting jargon. If that wasn't true, why are you part of the TGC community?

Pure Basic is to applications what Dark Basic is to games. It's a very powerful application built around similar principles but with a different purpose in mind, by a similar kind of independant team, with a similar, helpful and thrivving, community. It's DarkBasic for Windows apps.

VB & .net is just an ever changing playing field of revised standards designed to be compatable with whatever the marketting department have desided is flavour of the month and compiled quickly by a team of people who have never even seen each other and probably dont even speak the same language.

Oh yes, give me the independant anyday.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 14:39
I dont see much point in .NET either. It may be needed when Longhorn comes out, but limiting new API's to .NET would be counter-productive.


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Keeping it Unreal since 2004
MicroMan
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 15:26
Then I'd recommend Delphi 6. It's free if you don't have any cash. If you do have cash to spare then go for Delphi 7, or 8 which can use .Net. I always recommend Delphi instead of C++. You can do most of what you do in C++ in Pascal, but you don't have to learn greek to do it.

And the IDE with all its components make it fairly easy to create simple apps right away. And when you want to do something more complex it's fairly easy to do. Delphi relies a lot less on ActiveX and uses code libraries instead, and these code libraries work directly on the API.

The code is a lot easier to read than C++ too, and is almost as easy to read as Basic.

An example.

A Dark Basic function:



A Visual Basic Function



A Pascal (Delphi) function



-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
-----
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 15:33
I think Delphi is the one I will try, if I can also make .dll's then thats a benefit. I'll do a google search if its available free, then the only money I'll need to spend is on books and the like.

Thanks for the help so far people

Currently thinking of a new company name
Sticking to a project idea for once
CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 18:59 Edited at: 1st Apr 2004 19:01
<sigh>
some surprisingly short-sighted perspectives and comments from some people who I thought saw the big picture as it relates to .NET and the future. I can only comment from the point-of-view of a programmer who has used many flavors of Basic and Visual Basic - VB.NET is simply light years ahead of it's predecessors, and I recommend it to anyone who is going to learn vb.

edit: But I guess you need to have struggled through earlier versions to fully understand and appreciate the improvements it has made on all levels.



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Izzy545
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 20:38
CattleRustler: I totally agree. VB.NET is simply awesome. Perfect for making Windows Apps in my opinion.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 21:38 Edited at: 1st Apr 2004 21:38
Izzy

And games aren't far behind. Have you downloaded the dx9 sdk for managed code. Yes, you can now program in directx 9 with pure .net classes, in vb.net syntax! The only reason I haven't done more with it yet is because all of the examples and books are only catered to the C# programmer and Iam too lazy to a)decipher C# into vb.net abd b)try an learn a complex topic like DX programming principals with the benefit of pure vb.net examples and explanations.

The future is coming.



Home of the VB.NET Class Builder Utility - Demo available now!
Izzy545
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 22:01
I know, it's awesome. But right now DX is just a little too much for me to wrap my head around. Been meaning to get the book: Game Programming in VB.NET With DirectX 9 or something to that effect.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 22:39
is that book out already?
<scurries off to amazon>




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Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 22:40
GL Basic!

It's not DX

"eureka" - Archimedes
CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Apr 2004 23:01
Izzy - I read all of the reviews on that book and all of them share the opinion that the book is worthless! Hopefully better books for vb.net game programming will be coming along. The guy who wrote the dx9 managed API has a book out but it's for C#. Oh well.



Home of the VB.NET Class Builder Utility - Demo available now!
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2004 13:20
Hey, I cant find Delphi 6 anywhere. On Borland's site theres a link for an Architect Trial or something, but nothing about version 6 as far as I can see, apart from registration keys if you have the CD version.

Currently thinking of a new company name
Sticking to a project idea for once
las6
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2004 13:23
PlayBasic.


Keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue.
recycled
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2004 16:36
Go for delphi. Very flexible, and a fairly easy learning curve.
And you can do powerful, complex , great applications and games with it.

http://www.ond.se/vermin/forums <- game design and writing forums

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