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Geek Culture / Cartography shop, Nuclear Glory, Levels and big hairy milkman ..

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 18:51
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Ok, ignore the big hairy milkman bit.

I'm wondering if anyone can mention any games that make good use of levels made in cartography shop. The lightmapping on the demo looks good, but I don't know of any dbpro games that have been released that make extensive use of it. I'd like to see one in action and then think about buying it.

Basically, I'm thinking an investment in Nuclear Glory's collision DLL and cartography shop could be the level solution I've been looking for, but I'd like to see cartography levels in a (semi)completed game.

As for the big hairy milkman - he's watching you and he's got your milk.

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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 19:49 Edited at: 13th Apr 2004 19:50
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I too would be interested to know a bit more about CS from people who are using it, rather than the sales blurb. In particular, whether it woukd be any good for a racing game (could be street based, countrified, or even indoor).

Is it going to be easy to integrate with NG - object numbers etc?

Fallout - I'm not hijacking your thread, just interested in the same topic.

And my milkperson's not big and hairy, in fact she would probably take offence at that.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 19:54 Edited at: 13th Apr 2004 21:07
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Cart shop is stopping me from my life long dream!
As for good use of cart shop lightmapping, try Obsidian (Fishy spelling) the author has also created a special editor to place all his cart shop .x maps in a way so it hides the ones you can't see. (Sorta like bsp)



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nuclear glory
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 20:08
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All of the people who reported about Cart Shop say the DLL works great with it. So far I don't know of one bad report. Some were saying (last year sometime) that it was the only collision solution that worked for Cart Shop levels, lol.

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 20:09
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No probs batvink. The more the merrier. The more info on cartshop the better.

Yeah, I was gonna use that sorta system. Lots of little cart maps so I can hide the ones that can't be seen. I'm still a little confused as to how the lightmaps work with db though. I've heard that cartshop exports two textures - the lightmap one, and the building textures, and you then load up two instances of the same model to the same place and apply dark ghosting to the lightmap model.

If this is true, I can't see how it would work. I'd imagine you'd get lots of nasty clipping from the textures where the polygons are in exactly the same place and are fighting for z-depth priority. Anyone know?

Where Obsidien available from megaton?

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Fallout
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 20:27
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Ok, looking at the help file in the demo confirms it uses dark ghosting. I assume it must work fine then. It definitely is a compelling package as it is really easy to use and does look damn good, and the lightmapping seems pretty quick. It's a shame the demo doesnt have any exporting, because I can't see what it does to test with db.

Btw, thanks for your input NG.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Apr 2004 21:13
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Sorry that's "Obsidian".

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/

A shot:


Last time I tried it, it came with that editor I told you about.



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Fallout
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 00:01
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Yeah, just had a play with the demo. Pretty standard stuff and straight forward to use. I think it makes more sense to make your meshes in another program first, but the lighting is great. Definitely worth the purchase, I think.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 00:10
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hmmm...nah. I'll go with GTKradiant...



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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 00:10
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you could just use lightmapping software and model your models in a modelling program... theres one that exports to .dbo now aswell.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 00:13
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Lightmapping software like Gile for instance cost even more then Cart shop. Plus modelling levels in modelling programs is pretty tough...expecially the texturing.



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Fallout
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 18:14 Edited at: 14th Apr 2004 18:37
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Jesus christ. Was gonna buy it, and then they slap on £7 VAT and you dont even get sent a CD or anything. £46.99 for a download that the author admits he wrote for himself anyway.

Piss take. Absolute piss take. Only a little shy of the price of DBPro for god sake.

Anyone know of a lightmapper that either (A) you get a CD and manual in exchange for a heafty price tag, or (B) ... just doesn't have the heafty price tag?

EDIT: And nuclear glory for £8. Bwahahaha. Now that's a bargain.

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BatVink
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 18:51 Edited at: 14th Apr 2004 18:52
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I agree, very steep for what is essentially a downloadable "add-on". DB Pro is now £32.99 in some places, which makes CS almost 150% of the price of the main product.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 19:05
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Quote: "Now that's a bargain."


I know, isn't it?

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Fallout
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 19:18
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Just gonna wait on it until I have my level building solution, and then I'll be happy to put those 8 little nuggins in ya pocket!

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Peter H
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 20:34 Edited at: 14th Apr 2004 20:34
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Quote: "DB Pro is now £32.99 in some places,"

i got it from ebay for $60
[edit] totaly unopened...still sealed with the plastic wrap on


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BatVink
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 14:28
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I did a Google search on Cartography shop. Things don't look good at the moment, it is being slated all over the place (particularly on the forum of a rival game-making product).

I've d/loaded DeleD, it is mentioned as a viable alternative.
http://www.delgine.com/index.php?filename=download_deled

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 15:14
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@Batvink

That looks pretty cool, but I've had a look through the online documentation and I can't see any mention of lightmapping. It's all about the lightmapping for me. That's what makes the level good looking.

You say you've downloaded it though? See any options for generating lightmapping? And joy with importing into db?

I think Cartshop is a decent product, and the demo was nice and straight forward to use - it's just not worth the price. No way. A typical example of either a greedy developer, or one that think his product is more professional and useful than it actually is.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 15:55
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@Fallout: I guess you didn't look hard enough...
http://www.delgine.com/index.php?filename=userLM


But I think it's a seperate app...hmmm maybe. I'm late for class anyway, bye.



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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 16:14
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Downloading to find out for myself. Not sure how the lightmapping will work with db tho.

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 16:32
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Nope. There's no built in lightmapper. Must be a plugin or something.

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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 01:36
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The lightmapper is being developed by a user of Deled, it's in production. I can't see any info on the guy, so I don't how likely it is to materialise.

There is one other essential feature that is coming in the next release...Grids. The plain is exactly that, one plain. It needs the grid to create landscapes.

I also d/loaded TrueSpace 3.2 (free). I'm sure I saw a lightmapping plug-in somewhere, but I can't find the damn link now.

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MikeS
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 02:20
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Jereon the author of DeleD can usually be found in the 3D section of this forum. Recently he asked what would be most important for DeleD add-ons and I believe lightmap won the vote.

So I assume that's an early build of the lightmapping.



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BatVink
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 02:44
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Didn't realise Jereon was around on these forums.

The lightmapper is by a guy called Mike Pausin. It's being written in C, rather than Delphi which is what Jereon develops in.

If it just "plugs in", it should be good stuff.

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MikeS
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 02:51
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Yup, I might as well post the link too.

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=28993&b=3

Perhaps we can keep him inspired to add more to the wonderful tool he's already created.



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walaber
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 14:02
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For DBPro users, I can't recommend Gile[s] any higher.

it's NOT a level-maker like CShop (no modelling features), but it's a very well designed (and OFTEN updated) lightmapper. it's not expensive, and best of all, it can export .DBO files, which load faster, and have support for multi-textures RIGHT NOW. so you don't have to mess with two different .x files or anything. it's a fantastic program, and since I bought it it has been continuously updated, getting better and better almost every week.

here's a screenshot of my Snowball Fight game, the level shown is a single .dbo file (with lightmap of course):



you can see other shots at my website (press the WEB button).

you can check out Gile[s] at the following link:
http://www.frecle.net/giles/

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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adr
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 19:18 Edited at: 16th Apr 2004 19:19
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I think I'd use the following setup:

modelling the level : wings3d (I love it so)
texturing the level : DelED
lightmapping : Gile[s]

According to the delengine site, delED seems to have a rather advanced texture mapping feature - I'll check that out tonight. If DelED can do what I need it to do (which is ease the pain of UVing level objects), then I'm buying Gile[s] straight away.

----

edit : oh, and downloading DelED too

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 20:51
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Quote: "For DBPro users, I can't recommend Gile[s] any higher.
"


That's were I don't agree. Gile[s] has the same kind of purchase system as cart shop. Meaning you cough up more money then for cart shop and you get a little password in your email to unlock your version. This thing already been cracked.

Secondly, you still need a good software to do your modelling & texturing in before you load up Gile[s]. Maybe the best thing for cheap skates like kme is GTKradiant.



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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Apr 2004 21:46
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Well, I gave Gile[s] a little whirl today. That's pretty decent too, but it doesnt sort my level building problem. I guess Adr's solution is pretty good, with me swapping Wings3D for something else.

Still ... it'll be much nicer if DelED get a free light mapper. Than I shall be chuffed as thomas the tank engine.

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nuclear glory
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 00:59
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In the event you may be an aspiring C++ guru, we just released the C++ version of our DLL! Oooh, I bet you're crawling with excitement now.

Details on our homepage

Lead Programmer/Director
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