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Geek Culture / The Matrix ..

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Fallout
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Posted: 14th Apr 2004 23:57
Ok, I know this isn't db, but there's a big community of people who fancy themselves as film buffs here, so I'd like to ask a question.

Who here thinks they understand the matrix trilogy? I only recently watched the third film, and I must say now I think the whole thing is crap. Is it a film about god, or some sort of higher entity? I thought it was supposed to be a sci-fi film, but sinse neo has all these powers outside of the matrix, it's clearly not about science. I guess that disappointed me, cos I wanted them to explain the whole thing through science.

So, anyway, anyone get something I missed? I've heard to many opinions on the trilogy, but I just found it really disappointing that there isn't any attempt to explain neos abilities outside of the matrix. Anyone got any insight or opinion?

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Izzy545
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:08
There is an attempt. The oracle talks about it in Matrix Revolutions. Neo is connected to the source(the master machine or something like that) and that is how he can destroy the robots outside the matrix. It all makes sense to me.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:12
Dude watch them again and looks at them from a programming view and they will be alot easier to understand. The only one I have trouble with is some parts of the last one. Unless they were in a matrix inside a matrix or something I don't see how Neo could get into the matrix without being jacked in and also I don't see how he could stop the sentinels with his hands without the same condition.

But all other aspects of part 1, 2, and 3 are covered if you think of everything in the programming frame of mind.

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:13 Edited at: 15th Apr 2004 00:16
How is he connected to the source in the real world? Telepathy, or something like that?

Edit: @Lost in thought
Yeah, I'm with you. I get all that, just the stuff he can do from outside the matrix. It doesnt seem to be explained.

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:13
maybe it isn't the real world?

In the beginning, the universe was created...
This made alot of people very angry and it has been widely regarded as a bad idea...
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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:16
Yeah, I heard that argument, but most people seem to think that's not right. Maybe it's wireless technology!

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:20
he's got a bluetooth chip shoved up his arse

In the beginning, the universe was created...
This made alot of people very angry and it has been widely regarded as a bad idea...
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:21
Um plus he could see with no eyes I forgot that one. So must have been a matrix inside a matrix. IMO.

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Peter H
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:23
Fallout- try not to read to much into the matrix trilogy...there's nothing there ()


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Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:25
Ah, who cares? As far as I am concerned the Matrix was a brilliant movie. The next two are as dead to me as the new Star Wars films (or that stupid Battlestar Galactica rehash with Face blokey as a bird).

Apart from that, is the bloke who opens the doors in the 3rd movie actually the kid from Animatrix where he gets out of the matrix without swallowing any pills? Think it is, as there is a clue in the second movie. Then again, lack of caring any more doesn't help....

Try Cypher. Watched a review of it the other day and couldn't believe they didn't mention the matrix. Quite similar parts (take the pills to find the truth!), but is quite clever. Seen it (well, perhaps read it more like) all before, and the end is easy to work out after a while, but you understand it all in the end, and is cleverer than most. Just a little slow in the beginning and a bit low budget. Lucy Lui is in it mind....

Oh, and don't forget Equilibrium of course. Almost as good as the original matrix in my opinion, and right up there with your 1984 type future efforts. Top notch. Plus it's pretty british, so fly the flag a little

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:32
I agree. Original matrix was great. Was really straight forward. Easy to understand. Everything was explained in the end. You left it thinking it was wicked, and understanding all the complexities.

Two did you head in, but left unanswered questions for 3.

3 didnt answer all of them, and then proposed even more.

I didn't like equilibrium that much. It was decent, but I didn't think it was great.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:48
The main reason, for me, that the 2nd and 3rd films were much worse, is because they went away from the undercover superhero type element of the first film. Hell, the third film very rarely ever went into the matrix, and when it did it was just faceless apartment blocks with lots of Smiths. Ho hum....

And yes, I was all up for Matrix within Matrices sort of effort after the end of the 2nd movie, but no, just weird unexplainable religious type storyline. Sigh. Even the music changed to churchgoing type efforts.

Took themselves far too seriously in the end. Just watched National Lampoons European Vacation again while typing that. That's more like it. Quick fact : Did you know the tubby bird in it had been dead for years? Good old IMDB.... Combat Academy was also pretty good..... wow, off topictastic...

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Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 00:52
Oh wow, and she was in Duckman. Loved that show.

Matrix to Duckman.... movie degrees of separation. Well only because I said so above

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Trowbee
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 01:30
I sort of disagree with the whole Matrix-in-Matrix etc theory.

The way I look at it, in Revolutions, Neo can see the machine city in gold, because he essentially is part of it (being connected to the source and all).
If you look, when Trinity dies, he cant see her or the ship and has to feel his way around, but while inside the ship (the very ship he cant see), he can still see the Machine city.

The bit I don't get, is when Neo is dies and the camera goes to showing his body in the real world, the camera see's the gold code. So, has Neo really died?
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 01:37
I think that they came up with the attitude that Matrix would benefit from having no explenation, and to allow the viewer to make up their own mind about the third Movie. My own mind says that Neo was half machine, half human. Between worlds. Now he could have powers in the real world. You have a controller for your TV that could stop a bunch of robots flying towards you. Neo would be like that. He must also have contained a virus that destroyed Smith.

Pincho.

HZence
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 01:38
Quote: "Ah, who cares? As far as I am concerned the Matrix was a brilliant movie. The next two are as dead to me as the new Star Wars films (or that stupid Battlestar Galactica rehash with Face blokey as a bird). "


Couldn't agree more. Nor could Will Shetterly:

the Matrix Reloaded lessons

"I loved the first Matrix movie. Games with reality, cool sunglasses, Hong Kong action sequences, and Carrie Ann Moss. What's not to love?

Well, Keanu's Mr. Anderson is an Everyman, not a character with a personality or a life. He doesn't abandon friends or family in return for commiting to the Matrix. All he has to do is be willing to take drugs to hang out with cool people. That metaphor's fine by me, if you don't examine it too closely. An Everyman makes an acceptable point of view character for the first movie. For some stories, an Everyman is all you need.

And the explanation about humans being batteries is astonishingly stupid. Computers run the world, but they can't come up with nuclear, solar, wind, water, or bad old fossil fuel power? You could've explained that away in the sequel, if you'd wanted. But I don't ask for a perfect story; if something does 95% of what I want, I'm prob'ly there. The Matrix at least hit my 97%.

Besides, I loved Bound, the Wachowski Bros.' first film. I expected a lot from people who had pleased me twice.

First warning. Since nothing dramatic happens for over half the movie, you can safely stick with me until I slap up a spoiler warning. If you'd rather bail now, hasta luego!

So, what did I learn?

1. If your story isn't about dreams, don't start with a dream.

Matrix Reloaded opens with a shot of Trinity on a motorcycle at night. That seemed right. Then the action becomes really, really slow. That seemed wrong. As the action slows, more and more computer effects suggest that we are seeing something happen inside a computer. And that seemed very wrong. It made me ask who the point of view character was.

Which was when I got the answer: Neo. Dreaming. Starting a story with a dream is usually a mistake. Here's why:

1. If you start with a dream, the audience will doubt anything that happens later, since it might be another dream. An opening dream sequence makes them more critical when you want to make them more trusting.

2. If you start with a dream, the audience will spend the rest of the story waiting to see how the dream is important. If it was there because it seemed cool and not because it was necessary, you wasted their time. The audience wants its time filled, not wasted.

3. If you start with a dream, the audience knows that they don't need to worry about anyone in the dream until that character enters a situation like the dream.

Let me belabor this. The movie has just begun. In an attempt to make us worry about Trinity, one of the most important characters in the story, we've just been assured that she's perfectly safe until we see her on a motorcycle at night. If Trinity was frequently on a motorcycle at night, we might worry about her often. But there's only one scene of Trinity on a motorcycle at night. At the end of the movie.

Now, you may ask whether this movie is in some way about the idea that life is a dream, and therefore opening with a dream is appropriate. If the writers had made something of the relationship between dreams and the Matrix, or if Neo's future actions were affected by his dream, that might be true.

But this dream never affects anything Neo does. At the end, he is shown that Trinity is about to die, and his subsequenct actions follow from that revelation, not from the dream. If you cut everything from the movie that refers to the dream, the story would make as much sense. It might make more.

2. Make your main character sweat.

The audience isn't stupid. We know that characters like Batman and Neo can't be killed, or there won't be sequels. But we want to see them struggle and suffer so that we forget that. Making the audience forget what they know is the storyteller's job.

Neo is so powerful that he never sweats or gets his clothes torn or even has his sunglasses knocked off. By the apparent rules of the Matrix, having your ultra-cool jacked-in self visibly disrupted means that your code is being damaged, and if your code is damaged badly enough—like by being shot through the heart or tossed off a building—you'll die. Because Neo never seems to suffer, we're never worried about him in the Matrix.

3. Let your main character think.

Neo goes where he's told to go. He never has to be clever. At the only moment where it looks like he may fail, a villain helps him.

4. If your story has different levels of reality, threaten your characters in all of them.

The Matrix has a great sequence when a traitor begins killing our jacked-in heroes. We don't know exactly what a person can survive in the Matrix, but we know that in the outside world, death is death.

In Matrix Reloaded , we're told several times that Zion is threatened by squiddies sent by the machines. But we hardly see that. There's no strong threat in the ostensible real world until the final moments of the movie.

5. If one character can't be harmed, make us worry about another.

In most of Neo's fights, he fights alone. Since he's Superman in a world without green kryptonite, we never worry that he might lose. His solo fights are spectacle, not drama.

The logical person for us to worry about is Trinity. Neo's dream tells us she's safe until we see her on a motorcycle at night.

A new pilot of the ship is introduced. We meet his family and see him interact with Morpheus. He's played by the charming Harold Perrineau; we want to care about him. But he's never in danger.

There's a kid who hero-worships Neo. He's tiresome in the way one-note kids are in bad scripts. It would've been equally satisfying to see him die or see him grow over the course of this movie. But he doesn't show up again, making us afraid he'll appear in the next movie, every bit as annoying as he was in this one.

Several characters are computer programs that don't work for the machines. We don't know how to worry about a program; if it's killed in the Matrix, does it die? Or has it been backed up? Can it, like Freeagent Smith, copy itself, so if we see it die, we should expect to see it come back duplicated?

The only person left to care about is Morpheus. But we don't, because:

6. When you reintroduce characters in a sequel, remind us who they are.

All the established characters are taken for granted. They don't grow or change. We learn a little about Morpheus's past, but we don't see him being smart, brave, angry, or hurt. He makes speeches that sound like speeches we heard in The Matrix . When he's finally in danger, we wouldn't mind seeing him die, because the writers no longer seem to have a function for him.

7. Let the audience see the most significant events in the main character's life.

The Matrix Reloaded begins about six months after The Matrix ended. That means that when we see Zion for the first time, Neo has already seen it. There's no wonder or surprise for him, and that diminishes the wonder and surprise for us. Neo's familiarity with Zion is not the only reason that the city is boring, but it's the main one.

The sex scene with Neo and Trinity is oddly flat. Part of that is because it's not dramatically significant beyond showing us that they like sex. It's not the first time for them, and there's no suggestion that they're afraid it might be the last.

8. Be true to the logic of your invented reality.

At the beginning of the movie, Smith, now a free agent who no longer works for the machines, leaves a package for Neo. That package has to be passed through a small window in a door guarded by humans. In the Matrix, where everything is data, accepting a package should mean that they have allowed data to pass through their firewall, which could be very, very dangerous. But Smith's package is only a message. If it was somehow scanned for viruses, I missed it. In this movie, it seems like the relationship between reality and computer code depends on what the writers want to do next.

At two other points, Neo flies like Superman and grabs people so quickly that the change of direction should kill them. But sometimes physics matter in the Matrix, and sometimes they don't. Perhaps part of Neo's power is that he can change the rules of the Matrix for everyone around him. If so, why does this story take so long?

9. Be inventive with the appearance of your world.

Zion looks like any city in a scifi movie made in the last twenty years. The Zionistas' clothes look like clothes you could buy from the Deva catalog.

10. Be inventive with the cultures of your world.

Zion is filled with people of all races dressed in funky raver clothes. That seems cool until you notice that when it comes to romance, based on the story's main examples, blacks stay with blacks and whites stay with whites. Don't ask why Earth's last free humans are preserving racial purity.

In the first movie, the leader was Morpheus, a black guy. In this movie, we meet the head of Zion's military, another black guy. That seems cool if you don't think about Colin Powell. This black guy answers to a politico who is a white guy. So, at the beginning of the movie, it looks like in this funky rebel city, the important people are men, and the most important one is white.

Then we meet the council of elders, which has a female speaker. That seems cool if you don't think about Margaret Thatcher. The casting and costuming say that these are a Ragtag Bunch o' Rebels (TM). The dialogue says that this is a stock George Lucas jackboot scene: the government gives its orders to the military.

11. Let the plot change the characters.

The plot, such as it is, begins a quarter into the movie, after the visit to Zion:

Neo gets a message to go see the Oracle. He goes to the meeting place and fights Collin Chou as a test. Collin Chou takes Neo to see the Oracle. For an Oracle, she's remarkably precise: Neo must go to the Merovingian and rescue the Keymaker to get to the Architect to fix everything.

You might worry that finding this Merovingian would be a challenge, but luckily, the Oracle tells Neo where to go (and I envy her for that ability). Neo fights Freeagent Smith in a scene with cool F/X. Then Neo, Trinity, and Morpheus meet the Merovingian and his wife in a sequence that's more stupid than repugnant. Our heroes free the Keymaker. Trinity and Morpheus fight albino twins and drive fast, and we would worry about Trinity if it was night and there was a motorcycle. We don't worry about Morpheus, because he's been astonishingly boring. When Morpheus nearly dies, Neo flies like Superman and saves him, which is cool, but only because Neo looks cool flying like Superman. Alas, Morpheus goes on to make more speeches.

Now something happens that affects the characters and the story, so: spoiler warning.

The Keymaker opens a door for Neo and is killed. That's sad, but also nice, because the Keymaker is the only character who dies before talking too much. Neo meets the Architect, who talks too much in a room filled with TV screens. He tells us that there have been six previous Matrices, each better than the one before. The job of the One is not to be a savior. The One is part of the programming for shutting down a Matrix when it becomes unstable. The Ones before Neo were happy to do their job, according to the Architect.

Then the Architect shows Neo that Trinity is in danger. If Neo goes through the second of two doors, he can try to save her, but he will fail—that's the sort of thing villains are obliged to say. I think their union has it as a standard clause.

Neo decides to save Trinity, which surprises the Architect, though I have no idea why. I had hoped that Neo would do something clever, like see through some trick that the Architect was playing. When villains give heroes two choices, heroes should come up with a third. Instead, Neo flies like Superman through door #2 and saves Trinity.

Meanwhile, the boring squidlike machines that are threatening the generic scifi city are getting close. What, you'd forgotten about the squiddies? Don't worry, I think the writers did, too.

In the very last couple of minutes, a character changes: Neo gets a new power. In the ostensible real world, he can shut down squiddies, rather like Storm in the X-Men. Then he falls into a coma. The end.

Over the course of the first movie, Neo learned things about his reality that he had not suspected, found that he was capable of things he had not known, learned that he had a destiny, and fell in love. In the last quarter of this movie, Neo does the first two, learns that there's a question about his destiny, and, well, doesn't change a tiny bit as a person. That would have made a fine start for a movie. It's a poor end.

12. Commit to the nature of the middle part of a trilogy.

This one's a little wifty; bear with me. A true trilogy consists of three complete stories that tell a larger story. Ursula LeGuin's first three Earthsea books are a trilogy. The Lord of the Rings is not a trilogy; it's one story in three books. The Matrix movies are a duology; The Matrix is a distinct unit. The next two movies are halves of a continued story.

The Wachowski brothers could have commited themselves to making a "trilogy" in either of the contemporary senses of the word:

They could have made a story that essentially stood alone, perhaps exploring the nature of Zion and what it meant for people to be divided over the question of whether Neo is "the One" and what being "the One" means to everyone, including Neo. This story is hinted at in the beginning of Matrix Reloaded.

Or they could have picked up Neo's story immediately after the previous movie and continued it. The Matrix is extremely faithful to the first part of the model described by Joseph Campbell in The Hero with a Thousand Faces , a model known as "the Hero's Journey." It's roughly a three-part pattern. First the heroes discover that they are destined to be heroes, then they discover their possibilities as heroes, and finally they confront their destiny and whatever consequences come with it.

Instead of taking either tack, the Wachowski Brothers give us something that feels like they had a decent idea for a sequel, then decided to pad it into two movies."

That pretty much sums it up, AND THEN SOME. He didn't even mention some of the other things that confuse me/bother me.


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Manticore Night
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 01:47
I think the last Matrix film was alot like politics. Guys expensive suits. Running around hurting eachother(last scene). Like Cretien and Martin.

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Dave J
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 04:14
Nice action flick though.


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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 16:41
Agreed. Someone needs to get those suits and turn them into a game. MechWarrior was too big. Shogun was a bit too manga. There was that other one, but that was a bit poo.

I like the way the people are exposed in their suits, so you can still shoot the person inside it. Also, both arms need moving, big chain guns etc. Anyway, - game possibility there - ignore the matrix, just the big battle units.

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Blue Shadow
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 17:09
Thr reason why the matrix 3 was so open ended is because it doesnt end there. The story is carried on in a huge MMO game thats coming out this year. You play as one of the people that has been freed from the matrix bla bla. If you want to know more see the special features on the matrix 3 dvd or search for matrix online at google. Any how the game looks really good and i thought the films were excellent.

rant Over,

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Fallout
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 18:39
According to a few of my mates who are obsessed with MMO games, it's all about World Of Warcraft next. Apparently the Matrix online is going to be a little bit too average, and a bit flawed.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Apr 2004 20:27
I heard they were planning Matrix 4. Ho hum.

As to a multiplayer game, can't really see much of a point. Half the fun would be a bullet time mode, which obviously is impossible in a multiplayer game without massive playability problems.

2 & 3 were still pants compared to the amazing first film.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 17th Apr 2004 19:26
I'm going to miss Morpheus
An impressive visual feast with no heart. I think that we're all just desensitized to bullet time and so the action scenes were lacking. More Morpheus damn it!

P.S: Neo rearranges to "One". The Nebacanezzer or whatver the ship is called is from the Bible, as is "Zion", which is another name for Jerusalem or the holy war. Deus Ex as the giant head in the third film is called on whatisthematrix.com is also a biblical word.

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Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 17th Apr 2004 19:39
IMO? What does that mean.
Dazzag
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Posted: 17th Apr 2004 19:41
In My Opinion. IMHO is humble.

And the giant head was so Tron. Bring on South Park once again...

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 17th Apr 2004 19:42
That Matrix Online game looks good. Not a fan of MMORPG's mainly because they involve gay wizards and stuff but this looks promissing. I invisiage GTA3 mixed with The Matrix.

All the DB Users should get it and do Matrix style battle against the n00bies within the Matrix

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 05:58
Quote: "As to a multiplayer game, can't really see much of a point. Half the fun would be a bullet time mode, which obviously is impossible in a multiplayer game without massive playability problems."


No, I think there are work arounds...

If a player goes into "Bullet tine", a "bubble" would go around him, and anything in this bubble would be slown down... So bullets and enemies would get caught in this "bubble"

Amist the Blue Skies...
Dazzag
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 15:55
...Which also puts them into bullet time. So unless you force them to have slow down (when you do not) then how can you have an advantage?

And if you want to have any open spaces, then how big is this bubble going to be? So I get my mate to force bullet time on my enemy. While they slow down, I wander over to a nice vantage point (far away), have a smoke, a meal, sleep for a while, then blow the enemies head off with my sniper rifle. Erm.

Also this would not be a great idea for timed missions. So while you go into a bullet time fight with someone I get to the target first by normal avoidance of all enemies. ie. running away. You did nothing wrong, just slowed down. ie. no-one would use bullet time in these circumstances.

Nope, have not seen one decent explanation of how you could have bullet time work correctly in any multi-player scenario. Main reason why Max Payne is such a great single player game. ie. don't bother working on any multiplayer angles, as it just won't work well.

Oh, the only thing sort of clever mentioned in the same thread from six months ago was basically you didn't have bullet time, you just sped up. Not bad. Was better than the idea from one kid who said when you went into bullet time (ie. everything slowed down to you), then you appeared faster to everyone else. Simple. Think about it though, as see how the laws of physics have been changed somewhat...

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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 22:35
quoteeus Ex as the giant head in the third film is called on whatisthematrix.com is also a biblical word.

Sorry, Deus Ex is (I think) short for Deus Ex Machina, meaning an end to a story where basically, someone powerful comes and sorts it all out for no real reason. Think Midsummer Nights Dream. Seems a quite fitting name for that thing in film 3 really.


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Magpie
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Posted: 18th Apr 2004 22:37
quote:No, I think there are work arounds... If a player goes into "Bullet tine", a "bubble" would go around him, and anything in this bubble would be slown down... So bullets and enemies would get caught in this "bubble"

I thought the point of bullet time (apart from looking undeniably cool) was to give the player more control over his character (more time to react, see?) while slowing down the enemies a bit. This would be a bit redundant if only the player were in the bubble wouldn't it? The enemies would be moving just as fast because they're outside the bubble.


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Posted: 19th Apr 2004 01:43
Quote: "quote:No, I think there are work arounds..."

You should use the quote buttons...

And yes, bullet time is pretty much impossible in multiplayer without some serious (ie. totally unplayable) limitations. Not in the Max Payne type sense anyhows.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
DrakeX
22
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Posted: 19th Apr 2004 07:13
i just saw revolutions the other day. i liked it very much. many people seem to hate it because it's so "flat" and "emotionless" and "doesn't seem to end". well perhaps it's like that because.. well, the matrix is a computer program doesn't seem to end. how does revolutions end? a new matrix is born. in a way, the title has two meanings there - not only a revolution like independence from the robots, but as in a completion of a circle - it ends the way it started. it goes on forever.

so it got me thinking, and i think that's why i liked it so much - i don't want a matrix 4, and i don't want to see it if there is one. i've seen all i wanted to see, and now it's my turn to think about what's next.

- do the robots and humans eventually see eye-to-eye and get along?

- if the humans are freed from the matrix, where do they go on a lifeless toxic planet?

- do the robots' driving life instinct - to survive over anything else - eventually drive them back to war with the humans and enslave them all again?

- are the robots sensient enough to be considered alive? if so, is it any more inhumane to treat the humans as power sources than it is for the humans to treat them like slaves? again that goes back to wondering if the robots are equals to humans and should be considered alive.

- does the matrix continue to exist in the capacity for which it was created? after all, if people have the choice to leave, and most of the people do, what's the point in wasting all that enerygy to run the matrix if only a few people are participating in it?

- will there be a need for a new One if the matrix is not in full operation like i said above?

- is the little girl (sadi? was that her name?) the new oracle? if she is, why is the old oracle still there? if she's not, what is her purpose and why was she able to affect the sky for the sunrise?

granted, the movies were not masterpieces of cinema, nor were they extremely well written. they were very good, but nothing groundbreaking (except for the first one, when the novelty was still there). not to mention the action scenes were simply.. incomparable to anything else i've ever seen. however, they sure got me thinking, and for me, THAT is what makes a movie great. i sometimes find the endings i like best are the ones i think up

the nature of fanboy was irrepressible.
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Dazzag
22
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Posted: 19th Apr 2004 20:33 Edited at: 19th Apr 2004 20:33
I just didn't like it because it wasn't as cool as the first movie (IMHO). That's basically it. Was quite boring in comparision, and the story was a bit old hat compared to the original movie. Even the semi-cool exoskelton type efforts they used were reduced to a level just about above boredom because they simply shot a lot into the air, quite a bit. For a while. Was like a fast version of space invaders. Whoopee....

And Neo being a bit of a superhero didn't really happen in the third movie. He even got beaten by the homeless looking guy on the tube. Tops.

Nah, bring back ass-whopping, leather wearing, rock track playing action any day of the week. And a bit of matrix inside a matrix would have been more interesting too, even though that too has been done quite a bit before.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Douglass
21
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 00:10
if you think about the matrix in programming terms (or any terms) it makes no sense. if you want to delete or "kill" a program you DONT need to know any kung fu. you just enter command "deletefile.neo" and the guys dead.

Mentor
22
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 00:23
file protected: enter supervisor password

Mentor.

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Douglass
21
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 00:32
agents jobs are to kill people that cause trouble. why wouldnt they have access?

Shadow Robert
21
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 00:35
I didn't like Revolutions, i mean it just seemed kinda weak.
All it did was answer questions throughout without regard to a storyline.
Reloaded is the best imo, but that said it also was only there to confuse the story not help it.
Matrix is the only one with a true running story.


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Lord Ozzum
20
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 00:40
yeah, but the process is still running

Killswitch
21
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 01:13
The Agents aren't the highest up in the Matrix heirarchy, it'd be like giving all of us Rich's password and controls to let lose on the forum. Take Agent Smith, he had his owen agenda even in the first film, but had to acheive it trhough lower means if you get what I mean.

Revolutions was really weak, the *spolier*


end of the war was confirmed by one sentance by the archeit - 'of cuorse they'll be set free' or something like that, then how do the machines get their power??

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
Black Hydra II
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 05:47
The film isn't realistic face it.

1) Giant mechs are not an efficient or economical tool. A tank or turret would be better.
2) Why don't the machines just fill the whole of Zion with nerve gas or something. Gun-violence seems to ineffiecient.
3) Why can't the "matrix" just reset itself deleting smith.
4) How can smith take himself into a human brain?

However, if the movie was realistic it wouldn't be cool...

"Damn had to remake account!" direct quotation from previous account.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 11:34 Edited at: 20th Apr 2004 11:36
Quote: "1) Giant mechs are not an efficient or economical tool. A tank or turret would be better.
2) Why don't the machines just fill the whole of Zion with nerve gas or something. Gun-violence seems to ineffiecient.
3) Why can't the "matrix" just reset itself deleting smith.
4) How can smith take himself into a human brain?
"


1/ Well the twisting, and turning is probably a bit more precise than a tank turret.

2/ In reality, they could easily beat us with nerve gas, or germ warfare.

3/ It's a sort of virtual reality with actual minds connected to it.

4/ I think that Smith was a human all along. He was a psychotic, who self mutilated himself. Maybe the next matrix takes you back to the beginning like Star Wars.

hexGEAR
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 12:16
Quote: "then how do the machines get their power??"


neo asked the same question to the architect and he replied: there are different levels of survival we are prepared to live with. Without the sun they found alternate means of survival... humans... without humans i'm sure they would find alternate means again... maybe the earths core?

Quote: "Giant mechs are not an efficient or economical tool. A tank or turret would be better"


mechs, especially the ones in the film are more maneuverable than tanks and basically carry the same weapon weight.

Quote: "Why don't the machines just fill the whole of Zion with nerve gas or something. Gun-violence seems to ineffiecient."


did you see how big that dock was? you'd need a lot of nerve gas!!! heck, before the nerve gas filled the dock, the humans would head back underground.

Quote: "Why can't the "matrix" just reset itself deleting smith."


neo had to return to the source before they could reset, not sure why but if they reset anyways it could crash the system and i doubt they'd what to loose thier precious humans.

Quote: "How can smith take himself into a human brain?"


like neo said, jacking into the matrix is like seperating your mind from your body... when you pick up the phone in the matrix your mind returns to your body. In the case of smith and bane, smith's mind returned to bane's body instead.

Dazzag
22
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 15:52
Quote: "neo asked the same question to the architect and he replied: there are different levels of survival we are prepared to live with. Without the sun they found alternate means of survival... humans... without humans i'm sure they would find alternate means again... maybe the earths core?"
Which makes you wonder why not do this earlier rather than the massive complexity of the matrix

Quote: "mechs, especially the ones in the film are more maneuverable than tanks and basically carry the same weapon weight"

Shame then that they mainly just stood there shooting into the sky. Then dying.

Quote: "did you see how big that dock was? you'd need a lot of nerve gas!!! heck, before the nerve gas filled the dock, the humans would head back underground."

What is wrong with a big bomb?

My main thought when watching the movie was they managed to save the dock (temporarily) by firing an EMP device off. So why didn't they just have loads of them hanging around? Ok, so more would have come later, so have lots of them. Seems slightly more efficient than lots of little bullets that need reloading by little kids (could have had bullets being fed from an outlet in the wall/ floor or something). And the mechs were amazingly manual compared to guns 'N stuff on the ships (ie. why were they not remote control?).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Trowbee
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 16:34
Or just have a big magnet inside Zion...
hexGEAR
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 16:36
Quote: "What is wrong with a big bomb?"


it wouldn't be much of an action sequence now would it?

Quote: "So why didn't they just have loads of them hanging around?"


only ships carry EMP's, the initial plan was to ambush the sentinels with them just before they reached the dock but thanks to bane, all the ships were destroyed leaving 2. EMP's take out all electrical systems so i guess they didn't think they'd need it in the dock.. they finally used it at the end as a last resort.

Quote: "could have had bullets being fed from an outlet in the wall/ floor or something"


like putting a leash on a dog, why furhter restrict robots built for maneuverability? I know what your gonna say... "Shame then that they mainly just stood there shooting into the sky. Then dying." and i say true

most of your questions are "very" valid, but are not the kinda questions that bug the mind after watching the matrix trilogy...

Dazzag
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 01:47
Quote: "it wouldn't be much of an action sequence now would it?"

There is an obvious answer to that one...

The lack of EMP thing is a little weak if you ask me...

Anyhows, I can put up with massive Independance Day type holes in storylines, as long as things are still fun and keep you interested. After the first matrix, for me anyhows, it just wasn't so interesting. The mechs, for example, were so amazingly boring compared to what they *could* have been. From what was glimsed from reloaded and animatrix, Mechs looked seriously cool, and I was well looking forward to them. Nope. Space invaders instead, but without the excitement of that game, and movement. Massive miss that one.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing

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