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Look what I found- one of the user posted this once I made the What's better, DarkBASIC or Torque? Look:



See, I told ya so!

That's and opinion! There is no set rank of languages!

Who is TGE?

uh...DBUser4u...name's a bit of a misleading name

@DBUser4u - Then what's stopping you from joining the Blitz forums and staying there (forever)? You're really not changing anyone's minds, here :p

i don't dislike blitz or DBP. But half of that stuff is wrong.

There is no GI in blitz, thats nuts. there is a program a blizer mad that can calculate GI on lightmaps. But anybody with a copy of max can do that for any language. The normal mapping is almost useless because its only for static objects. Realtime reflections? he is just refering to environment maps. This guy is kind of an idiot.

How does Blitz have better max plugins?
Its tokomak not tocomak, dummy. And what is this refractive surfaces thing? environment maps again? Multiplys2x blend mode? thats only a small part of the price of persia sands of time effect. and i can be done in just about any language.

http://www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=17773

Not all of them are bad comments...

And most of the bad comments are from people who never/just barley learned Dark Basic

@Froggermon

"Realtime reflections? he is just refering to environment maps."

As environment maps wouldn't really give you real time reflections I'd have to say no. I think that guy is just talking out of his a$$.

" And what is this refractive surfaces thing?"

Refraction is what happens when light hits a surface and bends. Ever look at someone waist deep in a pool of water and notice how their upper and lower torso don't line up? That's refraction. And no, there is no way in hell that he can get refraction out of a DX 7 pipeline. One would need access to shaders and you'll need at least Dx 8.1 for that.

"Multiplys2x blend mode? "

I think he means some sort of blendmapping where the textures are muliplied together. You can achieve this sort of thing through the FX system or the Set Blend mapping on command.

This guy has obviously never used DarkBasic Pro.

Erm... I would like to point out, there is no reference to DarkBASIC Professional apart from ABomb12's post.

TGE = Torque Game Engine (just for those not sure)

Put down in a fine line, what should be happening is;
DarkBASIC vs Blitz3D
DarkBASIC Professional vs Torque Game Engine

A6 Gamemaker doesn't really get a show in because quite frankly it is too limited, being nothing more than an FPS Creator really.
:: coughs ::

Anyways, lets see if we cannot decypher this post and the claims.
"Torque is better than Dark Basic"
Althought better is a relative term, yes a C++ Library Engine/Compiled Script Format using a DirectX8.0 base has a clear advantage over DarkBASIC.

"Blitz3D is better than darkbasic"
Another relative term, but in all honestly; Blitz's speed and data access, I would have to agree. (This said PureBASIC outperforms even C++ and can use Native OpenGL and DirectX, so it is just lucky no one ever includes that in one of these eh?)

"better max plugins"
It doesn't have any Max plugins, it has Milkshape3D plugi-ns, but no Max plug-ins ... So that is just plain wrong.

"lets you use max as your level editor"
again, without the plug-ins, this is wrong also.

"use custom meshes with collision or BSP"
DarkBASIC allows for Custom Meshes, and has built-in collision which is simple to use. BSP Support is not native in either language, however it is possible to program support for both.

"good support for the tocomack physics library and is pretty fast if you know how to use it"
Tokomak Physics Engine, which no DarkBASIC does not have a plug-in for. Blitz3D's support for the Engine is enough for it to be used, however it does suffer from very bad lag problem if you have too many objects and/or complex collisions. Simply because of the DirectX 7.0 Interfaces, no slant on the programmer in anyway.

"Normal Mapping"
There are one of two things he could mean here, Normalization as in Smooth/Enhanced Phong Shading or Normal Maps as in the depth mapping. Both languages support the former, but the later neither support; infact not even DarkBASIC Professional supports non-shader Normal Mapping which is a shame.

"global illumination"
The ONLY way to achieve GI Real-Time is through Shaders, even then you need a Geforce FX 5800/5900 to achieve it. No slant on the Radeon 9800, but they don't have enough instruction lines to achieve it properly. Even the Geforce FX 5900 has just enough!

"radiosity lightmaps"
Neither Support this, infact not even DarkBASIC Professional supports this. DirectX 9.0b introduced these.
Please see SPHR in the DirectX 9.0 Summer 2003 Update SDK documentation for more details.

"refractive surfaces"
Depending on his take on what a refractive surface is, then technically yes but then so can DarkBASIC. The only true way to Refract a surface right now though is through a Shader.
So no neither are capable of it.

"multiply2x blend mode for prince of persia style blow and bloom effects and all running pretty fast."
Oki, well apart from yes Blitz3D can boast this feature over DarkBASIC natively and at some speed faster when hand-coded ... the second part just cracks me up.
Prince of Persia achieves it's Bloom and Light Beams through Shaders, the game requires a Radeon 8500/Geforce3 as minimum. Mul2x Blending might be useful but c'mon it can't do the impossible no matter how bloody good you are at coding!

"Specular maps"
True, however Blitz3D does not support Specular Colour and DarkBASIC does; hardly a fair trade but that said there is little call to use a Specular Map unless you want to fake Bump Mapping, or perhaps use a Single Texture where you could as easily use 2.

"realtime reflectins"
Hmm. Could he mean Sphere Mapping and Cube Mapping?
Sphere Mapping is possible in DarkBASIC (annoying to do but possible), Cube Mapping however isn't. Without Multiple cameras this makes RT Reflections impossible... This said, that is technically not an RT Reflection and it doesn't portray the same data.

"several GL engines"
This is an advantage on a Windows Only BASIC Language?

"MP network solutions"
DarkBASIC MultiPlayer Networking was pretty flawless (shame the same can't be said about DarkBASIC Professional's), so why would anyone need another Solution? Again the point being is unless you intended to use it outside of Windows, why add something which makes little difference in connectivity or speed.

The only real problem of DarkBASIC <-> Blitz3D is the fact that really, they can't be compared.
DarkBASIC is interpretive (Virtual Machine Based) and Blitz3D is compiled. Really you can't compare the languages.

This is the same with DarkBASIC Professional vs Torque Game Engine, they are totally different levels of difficulty and types of programming. So you can't really compare them.

The way I see it is, who gives and flying monkies what language can do what. What ACTUALLY should matter is what can YOU do with the language and do YOU enjoy using it?

A language is a tool to create a program, and it is a poor workman who blames his tools.

neophyte: I know what refraction is Also, i know what a multiply2x blendmode is. read my post more carefully

Raven: wolf is writting/wrote a Tokamak wrapper for DBP

@Raven

"Erm... I would like to point out, there is no reference to DarkBASIC Professional apart from ABomb12's post."

I noticed this as well, but I figuared they meant Pro and not classic. After all, who in their right mind would try to compare an interpreted language against a C++ library that's presumably being used with C++? There is simply no comparing the two.

@Froggermon

"I know what refraction is "

You didn't sound like you do.

What's with the question mark -> ? And you can't really achieve refractions through just environment maps. You can fake them, but you can't get the genuine article.

"Also, i know what a multiply2x blendmode is."

I know. I was talking more to myself than you. Sorry, if it came out that way as I was in a rush typing.

" read my post more carefully "

I did.

The Torque engine got my sister pregnant.










Let's see if that appears in Garage Games forum like every ill-educated mention of DB appears here.


Van-B

@Raven



Well said, this is what i had written in the previous posting. Here is a link http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=30114&b=2

Also he has opened another thread on general discussion, another link http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=30160&b=2

I have no issue with regards to asking whats the best, but can we not self contain on one thread, instead of spamming the boards. There has been 3 thread created by DBuser4u on the same issue.

Of course, no-one would think of overlooking the publishing issues, should you want to sell anything you wrote...which would make a huge difference to the cost of the software, and put them in different leagues.

Can't you guys recognise a TROLL when you see one?

@DBuser4u, knock it off. This is the second thread of yours I've locked lately. There is no 'better'. There is just suitable for your needs.