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Geek Culture / PureBASIC Pros and cons

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M00NSHiNE
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Joined: 4th Aug 2003
Location: England, UK
Posted: 24th Apr 2004 23:36
With my birthday coming up (and im still waiting to get DBPRo) I was thinking of getting PureBASIC. It looks duh bomb, and Would let me make .DLL's pretty quick, without having to learn a whole new language and structure. Can any users tell me its advantages and disadvantages?

Would I somehow be able to code a scripting language that could be parsed and handled via a DLL, for use in a DBPro-produced game?

Cheers

Gery
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 23:40
i have seen pure basic. Its damn not good.

Ezerkilencszázhatvanba' / ördög szart a katlanba /aki először megszólal /azé lesz a katlan szar.
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 23:49
From what Ive heard, you're damn not good either.

Killswitch
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 23:53
The Pure Basic langauge and features are very good - it can do a tonn of stuff DB/DBPro can't, but I've downloaded the trial and I must admit the editor ect is really crappy - it's put me off alot.

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 00:02
Im sure there must be alternate editors about

Killswitch
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 00:04
There probaly are but after everything I saw included with the langauge when I was the editor i thought 'hmm maybe this isn't so good afterall' its probally just a illogical feelin, but hey I usually follow them.

~I see one problem with your reasoning: The fact is that is a chicken~
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 00:08
Usually when I think I spot something I believe im right too. Then I saw a guy when I was out one day and I swore it was Rick Vanner, I emailed him and it wasnt. So my instinct was wrong.

Jonny_S
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 00:23
lol Yeh PureBasic is meant to be quite good. I have the demo but haven't really tried it yet. Yellow is one of the best guys to speak to, he uses PureBasic alot I beleive.

Supermonkey - The crime gifhting sex god monkey!
M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 00:24
Yellow.... Is he MikeS now or am I just confused?

Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 00:25
yeah, that be him, but I believe both

Was Mr X

Welcome to the Electric Funeral!!! *creeps back into the Abyss*
CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 00:41
I ran the trial and it seems like PB can do a lot but I just didin't like it all that much. I am very jaded, especially when it comes to the IDE - use VB.NET 2003 Enterprise Architect IDE for 10 minutes and you'll see what I mean.


Home of the VB.NET Class Builder Utility - Demo and FULL versions now available!!
Neophyte
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 00:55
PureBasic is a nice little language. There are some drawbacks though. Most notably the lack of unsigned types can make things a little annoying.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 15:13
I have PB installed (full version) and love it - for what it can do - but don't be under any illusions about it either.

If you want to create small, relatively simple, applications for Windows then it's a dream. Sure it is cross-platform in some regards, but to be honest there are so many commands that are Windows only, it's virtually impossible to write something with a GUI that works on anything other than Windows.

As for games coding with it - good luck. There is a reason why there are so very few game examples compared to the hundreds and hundreds of application examples.

I love the tiny size of the EXE files it makes, the hooks into the Windows API, the good range of commands and the fact it just works. I do not like the IDE which offers nothing much over Notepad, the manual which explains commands but not in any real context, the fact most commands aren't cross-platform.

Depending on what you aim to do with it, it might be worth buying, but be under no illusion it's a whole load of work to get your head around its very different coding style. Rewarding, but complex at first.

Cheers,

Rich

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
we actually played games.
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 25th Apr 2004 16:00
PureBASIC is the best BASIC language there is.

For a few points brought up.
The IDE might seem like a glorified version of Notepad, but it isn't not even close.

Anyone who uses Blitz3D will already be familiar with the IDE style, however there are ways to change this.
Standardly the programs you are working on are tabbed at the top, and to the right is a box for your Functions/Arrays/Structures.

This is very remanisant of DBP IDE infact.
Down the left side of each source is the standard numbers.
However as I've said all of this can be changed using the preferences. Colour/Font/Positions/Styles ... It isn't exactly a FULLY functional IDE like Microsoft Developer 6.0/.Net or Dreamweaver Mx 2004; however it has just as many features as any other Basic IDE.
(DBP's has the most, but to be honest it is still far to buggy)

And if you REALLY don't like the standard IDE, you can download the full source from Purebasic.com and make you own.
Currently there are around 8 to choose from, including one which people will recognise from a DBP one in production.

Honestly I prefer the standard one over all the 3rd parties, just like with DBP. But that's personal preferance.

Next onto the language. Simply put, it can do everything DBP's BASIC stuff can do and more.

Structures are PB's version of Types, however these are C-Compliant. This means that you can make Structures IDENTICAL to those in C, there is a reason for why this is later.

Moving on and you'll find that all the basic types are available for use...
Byte, Word, Long, String & Float
using the Structure you can create your own new types so that you can infact make Double or even Quad Floats and such...
you assign these easier than you do in dbp using '.' instead of 'as'
so like
a.l = 65535
b.f = 1.0

you get the idea this extended to structures as well, only when you put in your structure data when you want to do it as the individual parts you use the '\' rather than '.'
imo this is confusing but you get used to it



but as you can use them like C you can do cool things like this



also it allows for arrays defined as [], which although are support to be static you can actually use the pointer feature again to extend them

Next up are the Procedures (functions). These are again C-Compliant, so really they look and act just like a C Function.



as you can see you assign the return value to the procedure rather than it being completely open. you can argue this is more limited, however really if your using a decent pointer system this is a moot point.

The depth with which PureBASIC has really means it is closer to C than any other BASIC on the market. This is examplified through the fact that you can natively use any library file that C can.
There is even extended functionality to allow you to use Windows .COM based Libraries natively.

This means rather than using DirectX like DBP does, you can use DirectX as if you were just using C++.
The same goes for OpenGL...

To that end PureBASIC comes with 2 examples which show just how easy it is to do this. As well as an SDK to allow you to include any library file you choose.

There are a few limitations which when your working between the cross platform compatibility you wish would be a little better.
For example the Deftype really need to conform to C's as well as Definitions right now are pathetically basic (like DBP's Constants)
The Declare command goes a little way to eliviate this but really there are several functions doing the job of one and not all of the jobs of it. So when your programming skills get advanced enough you'll begin to start hitting limitations which you can't easily think ways around without using ASM.

That said inline ASM is built in and NASM/FASM Compliant.
As Rich mentioned most of the current build-in functions are Windows Only ... however you do have the option to export Amiga/Linux executables as well.
(along with 3 varieties of Windows Compiled Program Type, Win32/Console/SharedDLL)

Unfortunately the main reason there are only a few (but bloody good) game example for PureBASIC is simply because the Windows API is exposed from the get go and is heavily commented on howto use.
DirectX and OpenGL aren't covered by a particularly decent engine so you have to code them pure... most people will just use C/C++ to do this over a BASIC, hense no decent examples.
But that doesn't mean it isn't possible, just that most people who are working with a basic don't want to be working with overly complex APIs.

Perhaps once someone makes a 3D Engine for it like DBPs, eh.
Personally I cannot stand the Syntax, if i could then I'd drop dbp like a lead weight.
So yeah I'd totally recommend it ^_^


AthlonXP 2500+ | 256MB DDR PC2700 | GeForce FX 5700 60.18 | DirectX 9.0b | CMedia 8620 | Windows XP Professional
Elleomea
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Joined: 2nd Aug 2003
Location: England
Posted: 25th Apr 2004 16:23
Quote: "Sure it is cross-platform in some regards, but to be honest there are so many commands that are Windows only, it's virtually impossible to write something with a GUI that works on anything other than Windows."


As of around Christmas with the 3.81 release of the Linux version it had pretty much caught up with the Windows version in most areas (besides fairly specific things such as DLL creation, apparently SO creation is in the pipe line, but it's not a high priority).

How much ham could a hamster stir, if a hamster could stir ham?
M00NSHiNE
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Location: England, UK
Posted: 25th Apr 2004 19:01
I installed the demo last night and I must say Ive no real major gripes with the IDE - I think its because Ive never really seen past the DBP IDE and CodeKEEPER, DarkEdit etc. In particular i liked the Visual Editor, reminded me of VB but much simpler.

In the end I dont really want to use it for games programming - thats what Im getting DBP for - but Id much rather have something for making apps and DLL's.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 19:27
now if I am not mistaken you have to purchase the full version in order to make a dll, right?


Home of the VB.NET Class Builder Utility - Demo and FULL versions now available!!
MikeS
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 19:36
Yes, you must purchase the full version to make a dll.

PureBasic is my most favorite programming language. Even more than DBP, but that being said, PB lacks in 3D game development so I will always choose DBP for 3D games over PB.

The small executables are one of the major pluses with the language.
That's one area it beats just about every basic language.

Another nice feature of PureBasic is the ability to run programs on Amiga,Windows, and Linux with little or no change in your source code at all.

Finally the third major thing I like about PureBasic is that the community is very helpful like this one.

Along with that, PB is a very neat language and you get a lot of bang for your buck for only $60.

As Raven mentioned above, there really arn't many examples for OpenGL or DirectX with PB, but there is one site I find particularly helpful.
http://www.pbgl.xdn.de/




A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
kenmo
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 19:42 Edited at: 27th Jun 2012 06:26
Yep, I too have PB. I'm programming a Wolfenstein-ish engine in it right now. My philosophy on PB is that it is the best BASIC for applications, very good for 2D games, but for 3D games it is pretty crappy, so keep DB handy! The only 3D object format it uses is .mesh which I have never heard of before, and terrains (sweet-looking matrices) can only be loaded once, after that you cannot alter or delete them.

But for 2D PB is great.
M00NSHiNE
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Location: England, UK
Posted: 25th Apr 2004 21:23
Will have to buy this. Just out of curiosity, what are the other 2 versions available, one is professional and I cant remember the name of the other. Are the only available in Germany?

Plus, can you sell the stuff you make? It does say that you can with out paying royalties or liscencing fees but it says something different about commercial developers.

Richard Davey
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Posted: 26th Apr 2004 07:42
There's only one version - the "professional" stuff you've seen are probably just GUI creators. As long as you buy from www.purebasic.com you get the only real version there is.

Yeah it's all royalty free.

I just noticed that 3.90 is finally out! Which is great and downloading as I type Expect around 4-5 months between each Windows release.

Cheers,

Rich

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
we actually played games.
MicroMan
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: 27th Apr 2004 04:47
I might have to give PB a fair chance, I guess. I've got a demo of it hidden somewhere on the hard disk, but with VB and Delphi on it just hasn't seemed to lure me to try it, considering VBs scaleability. VB/Delphi can be as simple or as complex as you like, and since I don't really make a lot of DLLs... But I just might have to give PB a shot then.

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
-----
Richard Davey
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Posted: 27th Apr 2004 16:29
MicroMan - PB is smaller, faster, more compact, cross-platform and doesn't require any runtimes (etc) or massive installation files. Delphi is closer in this respect, but VB can but only dream of this. It depends what you're trying to make though.

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
we actually played games.

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