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Geek Culture / What if you have a £1000000.......BIG GAME idea?

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 11:33
I'm not a noob with a RPG idea, I think I've come up with a board game that could better Monopoly!!! I'm currently making it in DB. I would like to get it published. It seems impossible at the moment to get big ideas published. Anyhow, what would you do if you had a 1 MILLION pound idea???

Flashing Blade
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Posted: 10th May 2004 12:11
I'd share it with you Pincho - I do hope the feeling is mutual


adr
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Posted: 10th May 2004 12:24 Edited at: 10th May 2004 12:24
This is too great an opportunity not to quote a specfic scene from "Office Space (1999)" (Go rent/buy it now)....

Quote: "
Peter Gibbons: What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Lawrence: I'll tell you what I'd do, man, two chicks at the same time, man.
Peter Gibbons: That's it? If you had a million dollars, you'd do two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: Damn straight. I always wanted to do that, man. And I think if I had a million dollars I could hook that up, cause chicks dig a dude with money.
Peter Gibbons: Well, not all chicks.
Lawrence: Well the kind of chicks that'd double up on a dude like me do.
Peter Gibbons: Good point.
"


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th May 2004 12:59
Possibly buy out or invest in a computer firm (or two).


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Damokles
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Posted: 10th May 2004 13:09
adr, he is talking about pounds, not about dollars. That way you can get three chicks at the same time.




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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 13:28
I want ideas on where I can take my idea. What do I do with it? Make it in DB and sell it for £20 on the net? People don't seem to buy much stuff off the net. So maybe take it to a game company? They say you need an agent. Get an agent? Maybe........

I'd like to skip the agent part, and keep things simple. I don't trust agents who want money before they see your idea. They might not bother with you once you pay them.

Any other ideas?

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Posted: 10th May 2004 13:33
Quote: "People don't seem to buy much stuff off the net"

And where did you read that!?

The best way would be to sell it yourself on the internet (allow people to buy using PayPal), and then you could keep all the money.


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Dave J
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Posted: 10th May 2004 13:57
Quote: "This is too great an opportunity not to quote a specfic scene from "Office Space (1999)" (Go rent/buy it now)...."


Urghh, granted that movie had it's funny moments, overall I felt a little disappointed.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 14:12
Quote: "The best way would be to sell it yourself on the internet (allow people to buy using PayPal), and then you could keep all the money."


So could you list all of the things that this requires....

Like...

Your own web site..
A PayPal Account?
Tax details?
????

I have no idea about these things....Please elaborate.

Fallout
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Posted: 10th May 2004 14:57
Yeah. People always seem to forget the tax details. To do it legally, you'll need to register as a business, fill out a bunch of forms, and pay a percentage of your revenue to good old blaire. But you could most likely get away with not doing that, using paypal. Depends how cheeky you want to be.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 15:17
What about a site then. I suppose I can't use my AOL Homepage...

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 15:30
I'm in the UK. What will all this cost me?

CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th May 2004 15:48
I could sell it for you via my company and website - legally, for a small percentage of course


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adr
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Posted: 10th May 2004 15:54
I wouldn't sell it on the the net personally. I would make a name for yourself as a good online games house. Buy a decent web template (www.boxedart.com) and get a professional looking business front. There's no shame in making your games free provided they and the site look professional.

You've got an online portfolio for various investors then when you do decide to take it to the next step.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 16:07
Quote: "I could sell it for you via my company and website - legally, for a small percentage of course."


Well.. I looked at your site........

Quote: "There's no shame in making your games free provided they and the site look professional."



I don't mind giving games away free, but I have a limit to what I will give away. I wouldn't give away a game that is going to be better than Monopoly.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th May 2004 16:47
yeah, not much of web designer here but a product sells itself, not the site. My site may be sucky but it's not what sells our product, our product sells our product.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 16:57
When I looked at your site, you had no products for sale. Am I looking at the right site? Plugins for Dark Basic in your Siggy???

Anyhow I could make web graphics, I just don't have time with making the game as well.

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Posted: 10th May 2004 17:06 Edited at: 10th May 2004 17:06
actually http://www.mod2software.com


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 17:21
Ah yeah that's a bit better. I need something dedicated for games I think, so that people will be looking there for the right thing.

I could also do with learning to animate 3D models with limbs. I just have some temporary graphics loaded at the moment which are solid playing pieces. What should I learn?

Wings 3D?
MilkShape?
JTEdit?

Those are the only free/Cheap ones I can get.

Or does someone want to make some animated models for me?

Peter H
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Posted: 10th May 2004 17:23
i don't think wings3D can animate


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 17:25 Edited at: 10th May 2004 17:32
Can't it? Oh.. I thought it had everything. No it doesn't have animation, I just checked.

CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th May 2004 17:40
I think milkshape can do animations.

about the site, if you advertised your game and made a demo version available, the site it is hosted on for download (demo or purchase) doesn't really matter - again the product sells the product, not the site look or genre


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adr
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Posted: 10th May 2004 17:41 Edited at: 10th May 2004 17:43
No it doesn't animate I still rate it very highly. It's one of the best modellers out there - free or otherwise...

Quote: "but a product sells itself, not the site."

Ideally, yes. But how many times have you criticised a newbie here for making their site look like someone threw up all over MS frontpage? I think having a professional looking websites means that the customer doesn't have to take a leap of faith when buying a product.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th May 2004 17:50
absolutely. but chances are people will hear of your game thru other means than finding your website. thats all.

whatever, good luck


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adr
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Posted: 10th May 2004 17:55 Edited at: 10th May 2004 17:55
Quote: "chances are people will hear of your game thru other means than finding your website"

Ahh the holy grail of marketing - word of mouth. In which case I agree with you. Once you're at that stage, where people know about your website before they've visited it, then you're laughing all the way to paypal.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th May 2004 18:02



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 18:03
People still haven't heard of Dark Basic, and these are people looking for game making programs. I just looked on the Anim8or Forums and no one mentioned Dark Basic on there for a way to use Anim8or in games. The mentioned VB, and C++, and Gamemaker. Word of mouth is good though. I just told them about DB. So Milkshape seems to be my only option then... I never liked Milkshape...

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 10th May 2004 19:33
Quote: "So maybe take it to a game company? They say you need an agent. Get an agent?"


You have a few options, perhaps you'd like to work in game programming? Use it as a show reel to a few game studios.

If you'd like your particular game to get published then make sure the graphics match the game play and take it to a game studio, phone up - make an appointment, and turn up with a laptop.

Failing that I know an ex-forum member who works for a games studio and I could ask him to have a word with his publishers for you .. aka: put you in touch and not get involved myself .

Alternatively, if it is a board game, make it as a board game. Most of the games companies (MB Games, Warner etc.) receive lots of games and actually have a submissions department.

The games they test tend to be home made things normally using paper & sticky back plastic so you dont have to make it look like the finished article - they can see through that - however you should perhaps ask to visit the factory as there are lots of other considerations, for example a triangular box is out of the question for most factories because their machines can only do rectangular boxes etc.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 19:48
I've been looking at big companies like Hasbro, and they want you to use an agent. Agents can rip you off. It's a board game, and a computer game. like Monopoly Star Wars, or Mario Party.

Milkshape is hard to get. You have to send cash to Switzerland. Why can't things be easy?

zircher
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Posted: 10th May 2004 20:00 Edited at: 10th May 2004 20:04
If you don't like MS3D, you can try any package that exports .X and use something like CharacterFX for the animation part. This gives you at least a half dozen free/cheap editors to play with.
--
TAZ

Oh yeah, my big game idea is to have no game idea. I'd clear all my debts, live off the interest, and create games for the rest of my life. Plan B would be to make a tactical combat computer game based on the Starship Troopers RPG that Mongoose Publishing is creating.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 20:22 Edited at: 10th May 2004 20:33
Is CharacterFX Free? I'll look for it......
It look like mesh morph animation. Does it have limb animation too? Because I don't think that DB Classic can play mesh morph animations.

M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 10th May 2004 22:12
Character FX isnt free, but its cheap in a Milkshape way and its a must tool for any amateur 3d game artist.

I hope to make and sell my games in the near(ish) future, depending on how life tuns out after college. Id go the shareware route most probably - it might be a good idea to email some successful shareware developers who market themselves (e.g. Jeff Vogel at Spiderweb software or Seth robinson at Robinson technologies - google them) to see how they did it.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 10th May 2004 22:39
Thanks for the names of Developers. I have written to Spiderweb software, they have a good site.

I still don't know if CharacterFX can make Limb Animations.....

soapyfish
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Posted: 10th May 2004 23:07
Quote: "Milkshape is hard to get. You have to send cash to Switzerland."


You can just use a credit card and they'll send you an e-mail with a special number you can use to register a free download so it becomes a full version. Be careful though as I expected to pay about £15 and ended up with nearer £30 because of shipping costs(for an email?!?) etc.

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MikeS
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Posted: 11th May 2004 00:03
Pincho, if you're really serious about making a computer board game here's what I'd do.(Assuming I was in your position.)

1.) Getting Ideas down
a.) Write down a list of goals you hope to achieve with this game.
b.) Write a draft of everything you want in your game. (Just a brief summary, no longer than a page. The general catcher or purpose of the game.
c.) Revise your draft and include all the details necessary. (Take as much room as needed. Include concept art, mock-up shots and every last detail needed.)
d.) List your competition.(Monopoly)

2.) Work on the game
a.) Now that you everything down needed, you simply follow your design document.
b.) As far as tools go, I recommend Truespace5.2 with the free TrueX plug-in. TrueX will let you export your .X animated models into DB/P easily. http://www.caligari.com/ http://pages.prodigy.net/rwcordell/index.htm
c.) Start your programming, modeling, etc. in whatever fashion needed. Depending on how committed you are, take a few hours a day to work on this project. Pace yourself and don't be sloppy.

Now you have two options I'll provide. Either publish yourself, or approach a company.

Option 1. Self-Publishing

In this option you'll explore self-publishing.

1.) Self-Publishing
a.) The first thing you'll want to do is get some web hosting. Then you'll be able to create your site. Make sure your host will meet your necessary requirements. Easy Domain name, possibly MySQL database, php,asp,frontpage,dream weaver,SSL(Secure Socket Layer),etc. (These will depend on what type of features you want and how much you want to pay)
b.) Keep the site simple and to the point of your game. Provide an e-mail or a forum board for future support. (I recommend coding your own forum or using one of the more professional boards. Invision,phpbb,etc.)
c.) The most important thing once you get a site, is to start advertising and keep up to date. Send concepts to GameSpot, Game Spy, and get heard.(Even these boards!) You'll then want to keep up to date and start building a userbase.

2.) Finishing through
a.) When you finish your game, you'll have to choose some kind of method to deliver it. Whether paypal, or something else. (I'm not to experienced in this so you'll have to research online selling yourself.)
b.) Upload your game to your server(or whatever method) and check often to make sure it works.(After the first week you should check every once in a while to make sure the download works properly and is fast!)
c.) Now all that's left is to let the money roll in! (BUT, don't forget to support your game. Patches, expansions, visiting the forums. You'll want to keep your games lifespan alive as long as possible.)

Option 2. Take it to the House.

In this option, you'll explore taking your game idea(or finished game) to the publishers.

1.) Approaching the publisher
a.) I first recommend that call up and setup a meeting with as many publishers as your time will allow. The worst they can say is no. If anything, they'll probebly ask questions about your game. Be prepared to talk, but keep the e-mail or phone call short. (E-mail should work well for this point. Just use good grammer)
b.) Now that you're setup with the publisher you'll want to have a website displaying you game. (You should probebly have this setup before approaching a publisher so you can link them to your game for visuals or video clips.) In your website keep it simple. Talk about the key features in the game. Avoid using pages "COMING SOON", "UNDER CONSTRUCTION", and "IMAGINE". If it's not there, don't put it there.
c.) Your interview. Alright, you've scored the big one with a publisher, now you're flying out to California(or wherever) to talk to your interviewer. At this point you should have a prepared presentation. Microsoft's powerpoint should do well. Bring your design document with you to. (Not the big 200 page one describing every detail, but a summarized (no longer than 20 pages) document with your info.,company info.(if you have), key features of the game, and some screenshots.
d.) At this point, you'll probebly want to have a working version of the game to show. So pop your demo to them(Give them many copies (5 or so) so they can share them with others around the place), and even give them a chance to play on your labtop. (If nothing show them how the game feels exercising it a little.) You presentation at this point shouldn't have been more than 45 minutes as a general rule.
e.) Hopefully by the time the interview is over, you'll leave on a good note. If the interviewer didn't seem positive or seemed very enthiusastic don't take this as a sign of defeat or victory. Just politly thank them for there time and pray to god you did a good job.

3.) Post interview
a.) If they do not reply to you, just go ahead and give them an e-mail or call. *Remember, they're busy so give yourself at least a month cushion before hearing about a publishing deal.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, I wondered off a little and don't even know if that'll help you. Hopefully you have an idea of what to do now. Personally, I'd self-publish and this would grow your name in the game industry further if you become successful.

(Oh, and if I had a million dollars I'd invest it and then start a small game development/publishing company.)




A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 11th May 2004 00:17
Quote: "Just use good grammer)"


and spell check - LOL


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 11th May 2004 00:53
Lots of good info. How much does a top quality website cost?

So does Truspace 5.2 use Limb animation then?

MikeS
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Posted: 11th May 2004 01:11
As far as website costs go, I'll put some figures up.

If you plan on having 1,000 visits per month. 20$ per month
If you plan on having 10,000 users per month. 80$ per month
If you plan on having 100,000 users per month 200$ per month
(Costs also vary on bandwith, web options, etc.)

As you see, the larger the game gets the more you'll have to spend on web hosting.(obviously) I'm not the expert at figuring costs, so you'll have to do a little research to find closer estimages.

As for Truespace, it'll work perfect with Dark Basic/Pro provided you use the plug-in mentioned above. Truespace's animation system uses an excellent IK(Inverse Kinematics) animation system. If you'll be working with human characters you can simply use an existing IK set and apply it easily.(And of course scale it and select which vertices are effected by which joint, bone,etc.) Otherwise, just make a few bones and connect them with joints and join them with your model.

Perhaps one of these days I'll make an example of how to animate in Truespace.
-----------------------------
If you need help with your web design/publishers feel free to e-mail me at yellow1dbp at hotmail.com. I've been reading on these topics for quite a while and would be glad to help you out.

If nothing, feel free to drop by Curved Basic forum.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 11th May 2004 01:23
But DB Classic doesn't allow the use of Bone animation, and Vertice editing. Limb animation is all you can use. Limb animation is when a model is made from seperate parts. Like Head, Torso, Upper_arm, Lower_arm...etc.

Thanks for the pricing.

MikeS
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Posted: 11th May 2004 01:35
Hmm, perhaps you should consider an upgrade then. If you'd like, send me an e-mail and I promise I'll send out some great animation samples from Truespace used in Dark Basic Professional as soon as possible.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 11th May 2004 01:52
I'm sticking with DB for now...The game is half written already anyway.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 11th May 2004 02:06
Pincho, I have a copy of 3d canvas pro I never use...you can have that...(I must warn you, it sorta sucks though)

And I can help with the site if you want.


Site reachine end of development...
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 11th May 2004 11:39
Hey yeah 3D Canvas Pro looks like it does limb animation. Never heard of it before. I like the look of it!!! I'll have that proggy if you don't mind. Also, I will need help with a site. What help can you give me?

newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 11th May 2004 14:50
What about JTEdit... Can that not animate? and do everything you want for a small price of £0.00 .

Hope all goes well for you pincho..... 100000000% confidence in you

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 11th May 2004 15:51 Edited at: 11th May 2004 15:52
Quote: "What help can you give me?"


Well...by "help" as in "I'll do it for you" if you don't know how or don't trust html or any html editors.

And I don't know how I should get 3d canvas pro to you...maybe I'll put it up on a server...If that's legal and I doubt it is so I won't do that, I'll just have to discuss that with you later.

EDIT: Damn it. Why am I just to notice Angelfire claimed the life of my image?


Site reachine end of development...
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 11th May 2004 16:43 Edited at: 11th May 2004 16:45
I think I've figured out a way to animate my graphics. I'll do them in 2D but have the camera follow the player around so that it looks 3D, then when he stops walking he becomes a 3D model again, and the camera can move around him. You will think it's 3D all of the time. Then I can have hi-res images too. A bit like The Sims.....It'll look like DBPro!!!

zircher
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Posted: 11th May 2004 20:07
Quote: "Damn it. Why am I just to notice Angelfire claimed the life of my image?"


Because the image was in your browser's cache and was visible to you but nobosy else.
--
TAZ

geecee3
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Posted: 14th May 2004 02:56
you could use the free version of truespace (3.2) to make all your limbed characters and then export them to X format. Truespace is a doddle to use and is a fairly powerfull modeller (polys and metaballs) it also has a sim engine built in to aid the creation of lifelike physics in your scenes and models.

Quality for free, I like that.
and EASE of USE 10/10

go download it now!!

Best of luck getting your game published.
regards, geecee3

also, if you own the copyright, you could make some quick cash CAR BOOTSALE STYLE. after all you can't get done for piracy.

how do I know this, I done it last week and made 300 quid selling a reworked version of my BlastroidS game. and guess what i'm doing on Sunday? I worked out, if I can make a simple but good game every 2 months then I would make 15,000 quid per anum and that's from one bootsale every Sunday. this sunday i have 2 other people selling my game for me at different Bootsales as well as myself. Do the math!! you won't get a programming job making that kind of money unless you are a master coder. and as for TAX well......... they can go jump!!

PS. I sell my game for 3 quid a pop and punters just scoop them up.
100 copies in under 2 hours, not bad at all. roll on sunday and that 20" TFT on Monday. My only outlay was my time and 100 blank cd's @ 20 quid. Try it yourself!!

You can advertise your game as the latest PC title and your not lying. I'm also going to hit the classified ads in the local papers to set up a mail order system.

Also all the money i make is my own. no slice off the pie for anyone except my brother and his friend, who will each get 50 quid for their days selling.

TOO EASY!

it's faster than shite off a hot shovel, honest.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th May 2004 03:29
That might work, I think I could sell my Monopoly game that way..... Someone has also offered to sell it in their computer shop.

My monopoly game is called...........

TERRORTORY.

By the way......It's not a Monopoly rip off! It's very original in a way.

geecee3
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Location: edinburgh.scotland.
Posted: 14th May 2004 04:59
Brilliant, Unless we want to make millions, we can avoid all the crap that goes along with publishing if we use our own initiative.

I am going to do the same as your computer shop idea, but i'm going to produce special sponsor versions of my games that the shops can give away for free to promote their services, in exchange for cash and new hardware. the shops will NOT be allowed to sell the games only give them away via CDROM or website download. the sponsor logo will be external to the main program and be in JPEG format, a simple filesize check will determine wether the game runs or not. If a logo is changed the filesize also changes and the game won't run.

very simple protection for your property. also a date check system could be used to stop your sponsor offering the download after a certain date. by making the game time out! this way you can have different sponsor periods for the same game!! maximising the potential income from your hard work.

regards, geecee3

it's faster than shite off a hot shovel, honest.

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